Gun storage dilemma

by **LimaUniformNovemberAlpha** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:12 pm

http://www.cracked.com/article_25903_5- ... about.html

The Many Gun Owners Aren't "Responsible" subsection of this article refers to gun owners who do not keep guns locked away securely enough that children and/or intruders cannot access them.

In the comments, now, is (among other things) a debate raging over whether or not guns put away in a safe could be accessed quickly enough to foil a burglary attempt in the first place; and the tradeoff between this and preventing children and/or intruders from getting access.

I'm curious now as to what NSG in particular thinks of this debate. In particular...

1. How long do you suppose it would take to open the safe's combination lock? Is being nervous enough to miss a number a factor? If so, should such panicked people be handling a gun in the first place?

2. What is the tradeoff between childhood access to guns and/or intruders stealing them, vs. their supposed usefulness in foiling a burglary attempt? I've heard of the "more likely to shoot a family member than an intruder" statistic, but the nuance is that it doesn't count intruders scared off by seeing or hearing indication someone is armed, nor intruders who thought twice about committing burglary in the first place for the risk of encountering an armed homeowner.

Of course, that ITSELF doesn't count intruders kept from a life of crime by addressing the root causes because people chose to do that instead of turning to their guns, but still... that's the point. It's not entirely-clear cut.

What say you, NSG?

My own opinion? I don't think the case for guns' supposed usefulness in foiling burglaries is so clear-cut as to justify leaving them improperly stored where burglars can steal them so as to shoot subsequent burglary victims including the ones who happen to be armed. A gun isn't going to protect you from an armed burglar who has the jump on you.

by **Chestaan** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:17 pm

I can see the argument that you can't get the gun quick enough, but I don't think that means its ok to just leave them lying around. A huge source of guns for crime is guns stolen from legal owners, so not locking them up simply isn't an option.

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:18 pm

Chestaan wrote:I can see the argument that you can't get the gun quick enough, but I don't think that means its ok to just leave them lying around. A huge source of guns for crime is guns stolen from legal owners, so not locking them up simply isn't an option.

It's there property, if they want to leave them out they can, it's the criminals fault if they decide to break in an steal something, pretty simple concept.

End Gay Erasure · by **Crockerland** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:20 pm

Responsible™ Fudd here, I lock the gun, the high-capacity assault clip, and the ammo in separate containers in separate states, that's the only safe way; If a home invader attacks, I'll just lock myself in the cuck shed, I wouldn't want to hurt him after all.

by **Grinning Dragon** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:21 pm

This should have gone into the gun control thread.
Firearm storage is something one should utilize. To blame unsecured firearms in the home getting stolen is blaming the victim.

by **Fartsniffage** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Crockerland wrote:Responsible™ Fudd here, I lock the gun, the high-capacity assault clip, and the ammo in separate containers in separate states, that's the only safe way; If a home invader attacks, I'll just lock myself in the cuck shed, I wouldn't want to hurt him after all.

I'm amused that your house has a cuck shed. Did you build it yourself or just decide to buy a place with one?

by **Chestaan** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Chestaan wrote:I can see the argument that you can't get the gun quick enough, but I don't think that means its ok to just leave them lying around. A huge source of guns for crime is guns stolen from legal owners, so not locking them up simply isn't an option.

It's there property, if they want to leave them out they can, it's the criminals fault if they decide to break in an steal something, pretty simple concept.

Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it. They'll lock them up then.

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:This should have gone into the gun control thread.
Firearm storage is something one should utilize. To blame unsecured firearms in the home getting stolen is blaming the victim.

yup, it's not the owners fault because some asshole decides to take personal property.

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
It's there property, if they want to leave them out they can, it's the criminals fault if they decide to break in an steal something, pretty simple concept.

Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it. They'll lock them up then.

That's retarded, if someone steals a car from someone and runs another person over should they be charged? :roll:

jesus...I can't believe that would be an actual stance.

by **Grinning Dragon** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:24 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
It's there property, if they want to leave them out they can, it's the criminals fault if they decide to break in an steal something, pretty simple concept.

Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it. They'll lock them up then.

Can we also pass the same law in regards to people who let their vehicle to get stolen and used in a crime or used to kill someone?
Edit: damn you kash, you beat me to it.

by **Fartsniffage** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:24 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:This should have gone into the gun control thread.
Firearm storage is something one should utilize. To blame unsecured firearms in the home getting stolen is blaming the victim.

Not really. Try making an insurance claim if the thief just walked in through an unlocked door.

by **Chestaan** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:25 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it. They'll lock them up then.

That's retarded, if someone steals a car from someone and runs another person over should they be charged?

jesus...I can't believe that would be an actual stance.

If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

End Gay Erasure · by **Crockerland** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:26 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Crockerland wrote:Responsible™ Fudd here, I lock the gun, the high-capacity assault clip, and the ammo in separate containers in separate states, that's the only safe way; If a home invader attacks, I'll just lock myself in the cuck shed, I wouldn't want to hurt him after all.

I'm amused that your house has a cuck shed. Did you build it yourself or just decide to buy a place with one?

Building stuff? Oh no I would never handle those scary tools haha, my wife's boyfriend Jamal made it for me after I agreed to give up my CCW

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

That's retarded, if someone steals a car from someone and runs another person over should they be charged?

jesus...I can't believe that would be an actual stance.

If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

Victim blaming, plain and simple.

by **Grinning Dragon** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

That's retarded, if someone steals a car from someone and runs another person over should they be charged?

jesus...I can't believe that would be an actual stance.

If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

So ultimately it is someone elses fault instead of the person who decided to steal and use said stolen object in the commission of a crime. Yeah, fuck that noise.

by **Holy Tedalonia** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Solution, hand scanners. Debate over. :clap:

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

So ultimately it is someone elses fault instead of the person who decided to steal and use said stolen object in the commission of a crime. Yeah, fuck that noise.

Hot garbage that would never fly in court.

by **Andsed** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:30 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

That's retarded, if someone steals a car from someone and runs another person over should they be charged?

jesus...I can't believe that would be an actual stance.

If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

Because that is basically victim blaming. I mean if a women wears skimpy cloths and gets raped is it her fault? No it is not. Why? Well while she may have not made the best choices she did not make the choice to be raped the rapist decided to rape her. If a gun owner leaves out their gun and someone steals it and shoots someone is it the gun owners fault? No because again while they may have not made the best decisions it was not their choice for the weapon to be stolen it was the theif's choice to steal the gun and use it.

by **Chestaan** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:31 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

Victim blaming, plain and simple.

Look, if you have a better way to stop legal guns being used in murders I'd absolutely love to hear it. But I'm finding a little hard to be sympathetic to those who facilitate murder by leaving their guns lying around.

by **LimaUniformNovemberAlpha** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:31 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it. They'll lock them up then.

Can we also pass the same law in regards to people who let their vehicle to get stolen and used in a crime or used to kill someone?

I don't think preventing car theft is as feasible. Garages can be broken into as well, and cars can be hotwired. Breaking into a safe would take a bit more time and effort, which wouldn't deter the most stubborn criminals, but would deter a lot of them.

"Blaming the victim" is more meant for things that blame victims for harm to them, not for harm to others. If a burglar didn't access the gun, a child might have instead.

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
Victim blaming, plain and simple.

Look, if you have a better way to stop legal guns being used in murders I'd absolutely love to hear it. But I'm finding a little hard to be sympathetic to those who facilitate murder by leaving their guns lying around.

facilitate murder?

wtf are you on right now?

Let me get you in on a little secret...it's the criminals fault, always has and always will be. The criminal will always be held responsible for his actions, blaming the owner is fucking disgusting on just about every level.

by **Chestaan** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:34 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
If that was a thing that happened and could be easily prevented by the car owner? Sure. I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance, seeing as how it will literally save lives.

So ultimately it is someone elses fault instead of the person who decided to steal and use said stolen object in the commission of a crime. Yeah, fuck that noise.

No, it's both the person who shot that person and the one that provided them with the gun.

by **New Frenco Empire** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:34 pm

Ideally, one probably should keep all their guns locked away when not in use, with the exception of a defense weapon should you opt for one (which should probably be somewhere concealed, yet readily accessible if not carried). I'd definitely support some educational measures on responsible storage.

But requiring someone to keep their shit locked away? Nah, fam.

by **Andsed** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:35 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
Victim blaming, plain and simple.

Look, if you have a better way to stop legal guns being used in murders I'd absolutely love to hear it. But I'm finding a little hard to be sympathetic to those who facilitate murder by leaving their guns lying around.

No gun owners who leave out their weapons are not "facilitating murder." You cannot blame someone for get robbed just because they may not have taken the best security measures. Doing that is like blaming a women for getting raped because she did not learn self defense.

by **Kash Island** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:36 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:
So ultimately it is someone elses fault instead of the person who decided to steal and use said stolen object in the commission of a crime. Yeah, fuck that noise.

No, it's both the person who shot that person and the one that provided them with the gun.

nobody PROVIDED them with the gun, that implies it was left FOR that person.

if i stole your car would you say you provided it for me? yeah, let me use that in court " Yes your honor, he provided me his vehicle so I could run someone over"

:roll:

Gun storage dilemma

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