NATION

PASSWORD

Homosexuality and Culture

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Homosexuality and Culture

Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:09 pm

Has homosexuality made any positive contributions to our culture? Why? Or why not?

I argue that homosexuality becoming tolerated has added zero to our culture. Homosexuality, being incompatible with our cultural norms, created a fundamentally opposed culture. It was almost an anti culture, as its basis was grotesque caricature of our culture. This culminated in homosexual marriage, which is a grotesque caricature of heterosexual marriage; even the homosexual ancient Greeks would see homosexual marriage as a farce of heterosexual marriage.

And not only that: I go so far to assert that our culture's immune system has become deficient due to homosexual culture. For a culture's ability to reject certain elements is just as important for its preservation as its ability to accept. By accepting homosexuality, a counter-culture built purely on negation and "spoof" of its host culture, our culture was confronted by a sort of mocking reflection of itself which it was told it must credit. As a result, we have lost our strength to resist culture which attacks and totally undermines our own. We have even fallen to a sort of self-hate and continual guilt-tripping of our culture, through which the only posited way to atone is by ceasing to resist antithetical cultures and values.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Erythrean Thebes
Diplomat
 
Posts: 625
Founded: Jan 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Erythrean Thebes » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:12 pm

Mardla wrote:Has homosexuality made any positive contributions to our culture? Why? Or why not?

I argue that homosexuality becoming tolerated has added zero to our culture. Homosexuality, being incompatible with our cultural norms, created a fundamentally opposed culture. It was almost an anti culture, as its basis was grotesque caricature of our culture. This culminated in homosexual marriage, which is a grotesque caricature of heterosexual marriage; even the homosexual ancient Greeks would see homosexual marriage as a farce of heterosexual marriage.

And not only that: I go so far to assert that our culture's immune system has become deficient due to homosexual culture. For a culture's ability to reject certain elements is just as important for its preservation as its ability to accept. By accepting homosexuality, a counter-culture built purely on negation and "spoof" of its host culture, our culture was confronted by a sort of mocking reflection of itself which it was told it must credit. As a result, we have lost our strength to resist culture which attacks and totally undermines our own. We have even fallen to a sort of self-hate and continual guilt-tripping of our culture, through which the only posited way to atone is by ceasing to resist antithetical cultures and values.

This is a novice mistake. What you're talking about is the sight, in media or presumably in real life, of homosexuality being demonstrated openly with the acceptance of others. It's not "part of our culture" now, its a culture of its own.
Ἐρύθρα᾽Θήβαι
Factbook | Embassy | Religion | Community
Create a Colony in YN!
ATTN DEMOCRACIES - JOIN THE OCEANIC SECURITY COUNCIL - SAVE DEMOCRACY

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 31236
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:13 pm

I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:14 pm

I haven't seen homosexual "culture" as being really any different than heterosexual "culture".
If sexuality even had culture that is.

But homosexuality ain't a "counter-culture built purely on negation and 'spoof' of its host culture". I don't see where you even got the idea of that. It just makes no sense.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 182382
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:14 pm

Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.


Absolutely.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Heartless, ''transgendered non-binary kawaii Chan'', & a d*ck.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
The Burke Islands
Envoy
 
Posts: 297
Founded: Apr 25, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Burke Islands » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:15 pm

Homosexuality isn’t an anti-culture, counter-culture, or even a culture at all. A culture is a learned way of living, you don’t learn how to be gay.
NS stats get out, reee.
Issue instructions unclear, accidentally banned sports.
Proud Coonass.
Ay lmao
Burke Islands Memes

User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:16 pm

Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.

Someone who doesn't concern themselves with society, who just minds his own business, was called an "idiotes" in ancient Greece.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Erythrean Thebes
Diplomat
 
Posts: 625
Founded: Jan 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Erythrean Thebes » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:19 pm

Valgora wrote:I haven't seen homosexual "culture" as being really any different than heterosexual "culture".
If sexuality even had culture that is.

But homosexuality ain't a "counter-culture built purely on negation and 'spoof' of its host culture". I don't see where you even got the idea of that. It just makes no sense.

I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.
Ἐρύθρα᾽Θήβαι
Factbook | Embassy | Religion | Community
Create a Colony in YN!
ATTN DEMOCRACIES - JOIN THE OCEANIC SECURITY COUNCIL - SAVE DEMOCRACY

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:20 pm

Erythrean Thebes wrote:
Valgora wrote:I haven't seen homosexual "culture" as being really any different than heterosexual "culture".
If sexuality even had culture that is.

But homosexuality ain't a "counter-culture built purely on negation and 'spoof' of its host culture". I don't see where you even got the idea of that. It just makes no sense.

I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.


If a gay culture does exist, it would be more of a sub-culture in my opinion.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:20 pm

Erythrean Thebes wrote:
Valgora wrote:I haven't seen homosexual "culture" as being really any different than heterosexual "culture".
If sexuality even had culture that is.

But homosexuality ain't a "counter-culture built purely on negation and 'spoof' of its host culture". I don't see where you even got the idea of that. It just makes no sense.

I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.

It is the cultural equivalent of a tumor
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 182382
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:21 pm

Mardla wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.

It is the cultural equivalent of a tumor


It isn't. Your way of thinking is the tumor.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Heartless, ''transgendered non-binary kawaii Chan'', & a d*ck.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Erythrean Thebes
Diplomat
 
Posts: 625
Founded: Jan 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Erythrean Thebes » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:21 pm

Valgora wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.


If a gay culture does exist, it would be more of a sub-culture in my opinion.

In terms of sociology, that's probably right
Ἐρύθρα᾽Θήβαι
Factbook | Embassy | Religion | Community
Create a Colony in YN!
ATTN DEMOCRACIES - JOIN THE OCEANIC SECURITY COUNCIL - SAVE DEMOCRACY

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:21 pm

Mardla wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.

It is the cultural equivalent of a tumor


No it's not.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
The Burke Islands
Envoy
 
Posts: 297
Founded: Apr 25, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Burke Islands » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Mardla wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:I disagree. There is a gay culture, even if not all people who are homosexual practice or participate in it. There is unambiguously a wing of the homosexual population that constitutes its own culture, because of the idiosyncratic ideas they hold about sexual identity, sexual prowess, the libido, the penis etc. It could be, that some of the ideas of the culture are reproduced elsewhere in heterosexual women. But nevertheless, the point is much truer than it is not.

That being said, it's a culture of its own, and it's not "part" of Anglo culture for some reason I can't imagine.

It is the cultural equivalent of a tumor

You can troll pretty well.
NS stats get out, reee.
Issue instructions unclear, accidentally banned sports.
Proud Coonass.
Ay lmao
Burke Islands Memes

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 31236
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Mardla wrote:
Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.

Someone who doesn't concern themselves with society, who just minds his own business, was called an "idiotes" in ancient Greece.


But it literally has nothing to do with you. How homosexuals live: no impact on you or anyone else. Does it take money from your pocket? Are you bullied for not being homosexual? Are there homosexual conversion camps?

What you're complaining about is the fact they're allowed to exist and breathe the same air you do, marry their partners as you may choose to do, work in a job of their choice as you do, become educated as you may. And forgive me, but your psuedo-intellectual "people who mind their own business was called an idiotes in ancient Greece" is fucking ironic given the prevalence and normalcy of homosexuality in Ancient Greece.

Is your argument then hypocritical, or simply ignorant?

User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Mardla wrote:It is the cultural equivalent of a tumor


It isn't. Your way of thinking is the tumor.

Only if the tumor predicates the body.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Bombadil
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9925
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:24 pm

Countering the prevailing point of view is the very thing that advances our culture. In that sense I'd argue they're rather valuable.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:25 pm

Bombadil wrote:Countering the prevailing point of view is the very thing that advances our culture. In that sense I'd argue they're rather valuable.

A degree of negation is necessary for growth, of course. But pure negation is death
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 3581
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:26 pm

If anything, the discrimination and oppression of homosexuality has made negative contributions to our culture, especially in America where the ideals of liberty and freedom are supposed to be essential cornerstones to it.

Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.

Agreed on this 100%.

User avatar
Joohan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1667
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Joohan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:28 pm

Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.


hear no evil...

User avatar
Erythrean Thebes
Diplomat
 
Posts: 625
Founded: Jan 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Erythrean Thebes » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:29 pm

Athens, by all means the predominant representative of Greek culture in historical memory, in a land of thin and miserable soil, was created only because the rocky outcropping of the future Acropolis served as a haven for exiles and fugitives from the more oppressive neighboring lands. For the same reason, what would normally just be horny men has adopted the schema of a culture, under the comparable pressure of persecution and external hostility. We don't say, for example, that women are their own culture - rather different cultures have a script for women. Perhaps you, Parkus, could try and create a script for gays, in Anglo culture?
Ἐρύθρα᾽Θήβαι
Factbook | Embassy | Religion | Community
Create a Colony in YN!
ATTN DEMOCRACIES - JOIN THE OCEANIC SECURITY COUNCIL - SAVE DEMOCRACY

User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:30 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:If anything, the discrimination and oppression of homosexuality has made negative contributions to our culture, especially in America where the ideals of liberty and freedom are supposed to be essential cornerstones to it.

Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.

Agreed on this 100%.

You will pardon me if I doubt "liberty and freedom" signified fellatio to the Minutemen.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Ihury
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 446
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Ihury » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:31 pm

Mardla wrote:
Katganistan wrote:I propose that people who don't like homosexuality should mind their business and stop obsessing about it.

Someone who doesn't concern themselves with society, who just minds his own business, was called an "idiotes" in ancient Greece.


Firstly, it's a bit of a straw-man to say that tolerating other people's lifestyle choices equates to not caring about society. I may disagree with people who think mayonnaise is delicious and should be added to everything, but just because I don't go out of my way to dictate what they should or should not do with their mayonnaise doesn't mean that I have no interest in society.

Secondly, we don't live in Ancient Greece.

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:32 pm

Mardla wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:If anything, the discrimination and oppression of homosexuality has made negative contributions to our culture, especially in America where the ideals of liberty and freedom are supposed to be essential cornerstones to it.


Agreed on this 100%.

You will pardon me if I doubt "liberty and freedom" signified fellatio to the Minutemen.


It doesn't matter whether or not that's what they thought of liberty and freedom.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11214
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:32 pm

I can imagine you busting into people's rooms, telling them exactly what position to use.

If people are homosexual, they can't change that.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ameriganastan, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Bluelight-R006, Cetacea, Europa Undivided, Greater Arab State, Greater vakolicci haven, Idzequitch, Infected Mushroom, Jack Thomas Lang, Maidua, Naval Monte, Neanderthaland, The Caleshan Valkyrie, Uan aa Boa, Vostorossiya, Vykel

Advertisement

Remove ads