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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
66
57%
Yes
32
28%
Left-Authoritarianism
17
15%
 
Total votes : 115

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:44 pm


The Left-Wing Discussion Thread
Vol. VI
We are the children of the people!*
Image
Now 1,000,000% more FULLY AUTOMATED AND A LGBT+ safe place thanks to the positive intersectionality of yours truly, The Anarkitty :3



So I'll also steal Comrade Conscentia's words, and post format, and resources (from previous supreme leader UMN) and welcome you all once again to the Left-Wing Discussion Thread (LWDT), where all are welcome to discuss all matters pertaining to the political left. This is a discussion thread about left-wing politics, not a thread exclusively for left-wing people. All are invited to post here, as long as discussion pertains to the topic and complies with the forum rules.

Suggestions for improvements, changes, or additions to the poll and opening post are very welcome.

The previous iteration of the LWDT can be found here.

Relevant subjects for discussion include:

  • The politics, philosophies, and ideologies of the political left.
  • Left-wing perspectives on economics and political economy.
  • News and history relevant to the political left.
  • Left-wing responses to current events.
  • Left-wing perspectives on social and economic problems.
  • Political, social, cultural, and economic problems and their solutions according to the political left.
  • Leftist intersectionality with movements aimed at alleviating the suffering of oppressed minority groups such as the LGBT+ community, oppressed racial minority groups, and more.
  • Bread, bread, bread, and bread! Thanks Bread Santa!
  • How Capitalism oppresses the working class laborers of society.
  • Why the concept of billionaires is a horrible concept for any society, ever.
  • The problems facing particular left-wing movements or the political left in general, and how to resolve them.

Poll History:

”What kind of Leftist are you?”
  • Centrist/Moderate/Third wayer - 279 (13%)
  • Social Liberal - 259 (12%)
  • Social Democrat - 338 (16%)
  • Green Progressive - 188 (9%)
  • Democratic Socialist - 433 (20%)
  • Marxist Communist - 246 (12%)
  • Anarchist Communist - 202 (10%)
  • Other (please state) - 176 (8%)
Total Votes: 2121 (Recorded 28/11/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”
  • Left-leaning Centrist - 50 (12%)
  • Social Liberal - 57 (14%)
  • Social Democrat - 62 (15%)
  • Democratic Socialist - 80 (19%)
  • Marxist Communist - 59 (14%)
  • Anarchist Communist - 41 (10%)
  • Collectivist Anarchist - 9 (2%)
  • Individualist Anarchist - 10 (2%)
  • Revolutionary Syndicalist - 22 (5%)
  • Other (Please State) - 28 (7%)
Total Votes: 418 (Recorded 26/12/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”
  • Left-leaning Centrist - 57 (13%)
  • Left/Social Liberal - 51 (12%)
  • Social Democrat - 73 (17%)
  • Democratic Socialist - 78 (18%)
  • Libertarian Marxist - 22 (5%)
  • Other Marxist - 43 (10%)
  • Social Anarchist - 31 (7%)
  • Individualist Anarchist - 13 (3%)
  • Revolutionary Syndicalist - 21 (5%)
  • Other (Please State) - 47 (11%)
Total Votes: 436 (Recorded 05/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Thinker?”
  • John Rawls - 11 (7%)
  • John Stuart Mill - 12 (8%)
  • Karl Marx - 44 (29%)
  • Max Stirner - 11 (7%)
  • Simone de Beauvoir - 1 (1%)
  • Noam Chomsky - 13 (9%)
  • Peter Kropotkin - 30 (20%)
  • Pierre-Joseph Proudhon - 6 (4%)
  • Slavoj Žižek - 7 (5%)
  • Other (Please State) - 15 (10%)
Total Votes: 150 (Recorded 19/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Politician?”
  • Bernie Sanders - 25 (17%)
  • Clement Attlee - 9 (6%)
  • Eugene V. Debs - 19 (13%)
  • Franklin D. Roosevelt - 37 (25%)
  • François Mitterand - 1 (1%)
  • Nikita Krushchev - 4 (3%)
  • Nelson Mandela - 21 (14%)
  • Salvador Allende - 8 (5%)
  • Tony Benn - 4 (3%)
  • Other (Please State) - 23 (15%)
Total Votes: 151 (Recorded 14/03/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Social Movement/Revolution?”
  • French Revolution, 1789 (France) - 61 (14%)
  • Spring Of Nations, 1848 (Europe) - 34 (8%)
  • October Revolution, 1917 (Russia) - 60 (14%)
  • Spanish Revolution, 1936 (Spain) - 57 (14%)
  • Chinese Communist Revolution, 1946 (China) - 14 (3%)
  • Resistance To Apartheid, 1950 (South Africa) - 24 (6%)
  • Cuban Revolution, 1953 (Cuba) - 19 (5%)
  • Civil Rights Movement, 1954 (USA) - 123 (29%)
  • Occupy Movement, 2011 (International) - 10 (2%)
  • Other (Please State) - 19 (5%)
Total Votes: 421 (Recorded 29/7/2017)

”Preferred economic system?”
  • Welfare Capitalism 92 (23%)
  • Market Socialism 62 (16%)
  • Mutualism 10 (3%)
  • Syndicalism 40 (10%)
  • Communalism 13 (3%)
  • State Planning 36 (9%)
  • Decentralised Planning 27 (7%)
  • Higher Phase Communism 38 (10%)
  • Left-wing Market Anarchism 15 (4%)
  • Other 67 (17%)
Total Votes: 400 (Recorded 05/11/2017)


Left-leaning Centrist
105 13%
Left/Social Liberal
74 9%
Social Democrat
115 14%
Democratic Socialist
139 17%
Marxist Communist
139 17%
Social Anarchist
50 6%
Individualist Anarchist
38 5%
Revolutionary Syndicalist
39 5%
Communalist
27 3%
Other (Please Post)
71 9%
Total votes : 797 (6/3/18)


Was Trotsky Polyamorous?
Yes 141 58%
Yes 103 42%


Who are the greatest threat to the Revolution?

Class traitors 9 5%
Social Democratic Fascists 17 9%
Bourgeois Homosexuals 30 16%
Kulaks 7 4%
Trotskyite Conspirator Saboteurs 16 9%
Actual Capitalists and Fascists 103 57%
Total votes : 182


Poll 1: Bread poll! Which Bread Anarchism is the best? (65 votes total)
  • Bread Santa, of course! - 3 (5%)
  • Bread Santa but more red. - 3 (5%)
  • Seriously? THIS is a poll? - 4 (6%)
  • Yes. - 3 (5%)
  • The Conquest of Bread. - 3 (5%)
  • I knead to get out of this thread. - 5 (8%)
  • Can you not be OP anymore? - 5 (8%)
  • No. - 13 (20%)
  • Fully Automated Luxury Hella Queer Space Anarchy forever! - 11 (17%) ( ;~; )
  • Torra, are you okay? Are you inbread? Because these poll options suck. - 15 (23%)

Poll 2: Roughly where do you sit on the left-wing of the political spectrum?

  • Yes. - 6 (17%)
  • Center-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
  • Center-left, libertarian. - 3 (9%)
  • Center-left, centrist. - 4 (11%)
  • Mid-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
  • Mid-left, libertarian. - 4 (11%)
  • Mid-left, centrist. - 3 (9%)
  • Far-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
  • Far-left, libertarian. - 10 (29%)
  • Far-left, centrist. - 2 (6%)

Poll 3: Title Time! Which Title Should We Have?

  • Keep it as it is. - 4 (11%)
  • Yes. - 6 (17%)
  • Bread Dead Redemption. - 18 (50%)
  • Makhno Mistake, The Left is The Best! - 4 (11%)
  • The Right Can't Fight! - 4 (11%)


Reading Suggestions:
If you’re looking to read something relevant to left-wing politics, consider reading some of the texts below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.



Video Suggestions:
If you’d rather watch something relevant to left-wing politics, consider having a look at some of the videos below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

Videos

YouTube Playlists

YouTube Channels


Lots of free leftist literature is available at:

Free leftist audiobooks are also available at:

Other useful resources:

If you’re interested in discussing matters pertaining to the political right, we can recommend several entirely voluntary re-education seminars to remedy this unfortunate perspective. So, get to it.

*as we now have developed our intellectual industry, we are immediately launching the people's revolution against the fascist forces of the RWDT
I dedicate this thread in honor of Torrocca's Anarchist Internet Commune. AMA about it :3

First Poll will be added shortily after the thread is secured in its position on NSG.
Last edited by Torrocca on Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:57 am, edited 7 times in total.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Gonna need some title suggestions to replace the placeholder, comrade <3

Also, first >:3
Last edited by Torrocca on Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:46 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's an Anarchist movement that's created a functioning Anarchist society.



Hence why I said it's an example of AnCapistan in action.

Capitalism gives you monetary gain through the markets.


And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

Uxupox wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Not necessarily. Give the people a big enough reason to take action, and it can be forced to tumble down.


such as?


A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
Jolthig
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10336
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:46 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Not necessarily. Give the people a big enough reason to take action, and it can be forced to tumble down.

Define "people"? Because people have various ideologies with some being radical.
The National Federalist State of Jolthig; telegrams are welcome.

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User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Define "people"? Because people have various ideologies with some being radical.


The working class of society, basically.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14650
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Having guided the Workers' State into the higher stage of communism, I relinquish my power, dissolving the state.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Anti-Imperialist. Peak Larper.
Interests: Religion, philosophy, politics, international affairs. Obsessed with rogue states and their dictators. Not actually a North Korea lover.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 447
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3
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(Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
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Soyuz Mladorrosov
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 147
Founded: Sep 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Soyuz Mladorrosov » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Having guided the Workers' State into the higher stage of communism, I relinquish my power, dissolving the state.

t. What Lenin wished he could have said
<<Царь и Советы>>
Monarcho-Soviet & Greater-Russia Nationalist

- ТРУДОВАЯ МОНАРХИЯ
- СОЮЗ СВОБОДНЫХ
- ЭКОНОМИКА НОВОГО ТИПА

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3


The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
The South Falls
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7824
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The South Falls » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Capitalism gives you monetary gain through the markets.


And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

Uxupox wrote:
such as?


A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.

Who says there would be no warlords in your system? The social contract isn't followed by all. That's why animal packs compete. The males in some species fight the other males. While this isn't beneficial, they want to spread their bloodline.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 447
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Having guided the Workers' State into the higher stage of communism, I relinquish my power, dissolving the state.

A N G E R E Y
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West Leas Oros was DEAT, so now we’re in a civil war.
It’s good to be back.
#KillallMailboxes
Yes, I’m that “evil brocialist” you’ve been hearing about
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Albrenia
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Posts: 7936
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Though I am loaf to admit it, I came here in knead of a poll about bread. I'll give a toast to that.

User avatar
The South Falls
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7824
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The South Falls » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3


The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

Sacco and Vanzetti brigades.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13110
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Capitalism gives you monetary gain through the markets.


And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

Uxupox wrote:
such as?


A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.


Same thing that can allow something such as an authoritarian charismatic speaker to take hold of the reigns.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 447
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3


The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo
(Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News is currently unavailable due to recent Unrest

West Leas Oros was DEAT, so now we’re in a civil war.
It’s good to be back.
#KillallMailboxes
Yes, I’m that “evil brocialist” you’ve been hearing about
An accurate description of NationStates: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:50 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.



A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.

Who says there would be no warlords in your system? The social contract isn't followed by all. That's why animal packs compete. The males in some species fight the other males. While this isn't beneficial, they want to spread their bloodline.


Short answer would be the principle of mutual aid as described in Anarchist political theories.

Long answer's gonna have to wait a bit. Sorries ;~;

Albrenia wrote:Though I am loaf to admit it, I came here in knead of a poll about bread. I'll give a toast to that.


I'll make sure a poll like this isn't bread in captivity like the last ones. :3
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:50 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.


Fake news :^)
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
Jolthig
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10336
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:50 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:


The working class of society, basically.

Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.
The National Federalist State of Jolthig; telegrams are welcome.

OOC Links:

Want to know more about the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community?

Alislam.org
True Islam
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Other OOC links:

My OOC Political Views
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IC:

Factbook
This nation does not represent my RL political views.

Fan of various genres of both rock and metal
.

Ahmadiyya Muslim (converted on November 15, 2016)
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The South Falls
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7824
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The South Falls » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:51 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.


Fake news :^)

This very site is fake news.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
Torrocca
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18886
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:51 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
The working class of society, basically.

Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.


Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns nowadays! :3

User avatar
Jolthig
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10336
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:The state, in its present form, is inseparable from capitalism. We do, IMO, require some form of federation or large-scale collective. A state? I suppose if there were some way to divorce it from capitalism. I am not so sure.

Libya had that in theory I believe. I read Qaddafi's book.

The state isn't completely capitalist. Not a single western state is. It's more of a mixed economy, but yes, you're mostly correct.
The National Federalist State of Jolthig; telegrams are welcome.

OOC Links:

Want to know more about the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community?

Alislam.org
True Islam
Muslims For Peace

Other OOC links:

My OOC Political Views
My Top 10 Favorite Bands

IC:

Factbook
This nation does not represent my RL political views.

Fan of various genres of both rock and metal
.

Ahmadiyya Muslim (converted on November 15, 2016)
None.

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 447
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.


Fake news :^)

>a militia that is not beholden to a formal code of conduct and is self regulating not engaging in vigilante justice
Definitely fake news
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo
(Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News is currently unavailable due to recent Unrest

West Leas Oros was DEAT, so now we’re in a civil war.
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The South Falls
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Posts: 7824
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The South Falls » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.


Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.

Then they'd fight amongst themselves. The Bolsheviks weren't a hive mind.
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FelrikTheDeleted
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Posts: 8651
Founded: Aug 27, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FelrikTheDeleted » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:54 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.


Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.


I doubt it, look at all the fighting between left-wing groups, and the infighting in the larger communist community.
Last edited by FelrikTheDeleted on Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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West Leas Oros 2
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 447
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:54 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.


Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.

Then create a worker controlled state. Separate capitalism and the state.
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