On the Dachau Massacre

[Uxupox]

source?

old news

That's the same thing as saying that Chinese government funds terrorism in the African continent.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Not an excuse.

Burning a candle for dead Nazis won't bring them back. So?

Never said otherwise. Only saying there's no excuse.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Never said otherwise. Only saying there's no excuse.

If you could go back in time and argue with Patton that he should put the American soldiers involved on trial, what would you say? Patton had superiors to appeal to. What would you say to them?

That is what I mean by "so?"

I'm not a time traveller.

Hindsight moral preening is cheap.

Standards are what separate the moral from the immoral. If one can't even control their impulses then they're no better than dogs.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I'm not a time traveller.


Standards are what separate the moral from the immoral. If one can't even control their impulses then they're no better than dogs.

Your impulse to empathize with dead Nazis is noted.

You say that like empathy is a mortal sin.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

You say that like empathy is a mortal sin.

No. I'm just noticing where your priorities lie.

If you're trying to paint me as a Nazi apologist then you've already failed.

In the spirit of trying to discover the full gauge of your "Nazis are loveable humans too" ethos, who are the ones "no better than dogs" in this scenario, the outraged US soldiers or the enraged liberated prisoners? Who is your ethos ready to dehumanize as dogs? Hmmm?

Yes.

Unlike some people who give into the "War is hell" excuse to justify every atrocity in history, I believe fellow soldiers from all ages are capable of moral restraint, so I hold them to a higher standard than any other armed force.

[Salus Maior]

You say that like empathy is a mortal sin.

No. I'm just noticing where your priorities lie. Some reports from the incident tell of soldiers watching prisoners beat and stomp SS personnel to death, without intervention. Some soldiers even gave Dachau prisoners their sidearms to execute captured Nazi SS themselves.

So, we have reports that:
- American soldiers lined up and executed Nazi SS personnel on the spot or offsite nearby
- American soldiers turned Nazi SS personnel over to Dachau camp prisoners to be beaten and executed, or otherwise did not intervene to save Nazi SS members the prisoners captured themselves
- American soldiers loaned their sidearms to Dachau prisoners to assist in the execution of Nazi SS personnel

We can speculate that some or some combination of these events happened. We know US soldiers and Dachau prisoners both participated in the executions of those German and Hungarian Nazi SS personnel at the camp.

In the spirit of trying to discover the full gauge of your "Nazis are loveable humans too" ethos, who are the ones "no better than dogs" in this scenario, the outraged US soldiers or the enraged liberated prisoners? Who is your ethos ready to dehumanize as dogs? Hmmm?

Regardless of "empathy" or whatever, murdering POW's is a war crime and what the Americans did in this scenario was an unacceptable break in discipline and frankly hysteric, regardless of whether the POW's deserved it.

It was not their position to judge, jury, and executioner for the SS. That position belongs to a judge, jury, and executioner.

And furthermore, what if those SS would have been useful in finding other prisoners, other camps? Uncovering things the Nazis hid away and other war crimes that could have been brought to light? But nah, the soldiers were mad so they had to take it into their own hands.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

If you're trying to paint me as a Nazi apologist then you've already failed.

Yes.

Unlike some people who give into the "War is hell" excuse to justify every atrocity in history, I believe fellow soldiers from all ages are capable of moral restraint, so I hold them to a higher standard than any other armed force.

Does that include a condemnation of the US soldiers who assisted or otherwise did not intevene in the Dachau camp prisoners beating and shooting Nazi SS personnel to death?

For example, the account that US soldiers watched Dachau camp prisoners stomp a Nazi SS guard's head into paste. Or the Dachau camp prisoners that beat Nazi SS personnel to death with a shovel. Should those Dachau prisoners have been arrested and tried for murdering Nazis?

Ja.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Regardless of "empathy" or whatever, murdering POW's is a war crime and what the Americans did in this scenario was an unacceptable break in discipline and frankly hysteric, regardless of whether the POW's deserved it.

It was not their position to judge, jury, and executioner for the SS. That position belongs to a judge, jury, and executioner.

And furthermore, what if those SS would have been useful in finding other prisoners, other camps? Uncovering things the Nazis hid away and other war crimes that could have been brought to light? But nah, the soldiers were mad so they had to take it into their own hands.

War is hell.

Holy shit, do you have anything meaningful at all to say?

Nazis kill millions of Soviet civilians?

"War is hell."

Japanese eat the bodies of American soldiers when their food runs out during a siege?

"War is hell."

Saddam gases the Kurds?

"War is hell."

Jihadis terrorize the towns under their control, doing things like det cord decapitations?

"War is hell."

Terrorists strap explosives to children and send them a US checkpoint's way?

"War is hell."

See? It's all okay because "war is hell."

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Ja.

Are you going to be okay with that disappointment?

Ja.

[Salus Maior]

Regardless of "empathy" or whatever, murdering POW's is a war crime and what the Americans did in this scenario was an unacceptable break in discipline and frankly hysteric, regardless of whether the POW's deserved it.

It was not their position to judge, jury, and executioner for the SS. That position belongs to a judge, jury, and executioner.

And furthermore, what if those SS would have been useful in finding other prisoners, other camps? Uncovering things the Nazis hid away and other war crimes that could have been brought to light? But nah, the soldiers were mad so they had to take it into their own hands.

War is hell.

An excuse if I ever heard one.

And I imagine many Nazi sympathizers make the same excuse for German atrocities. So, good of you to be on their level.

[Salus Maior]

None of those are the equivalent of executing war criminals on the spot, or allowing their victims to do so.

You seem oddly upset that nobody banged a gavel first.

And you're oddly calm about war crimes when they happen to people you particularly hate.

And as a reminder, I hate the Nazis too.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Holy shit, do you have anything meaningful at all to say?

Nazis kill millions of Soviet civilians?

"War is hell."

Japanese eat the bodies of American soldiers when their food runs out during a siege?

"War is hell."

Saddam gases the Kurds?

"War is hell."

Jihadis terrorize the towns under their control, doing things like det cord decapitations?

"War is hell."

Terrorists strap explosives to children and send them a US checkpoint's way?

"War is hell."

See? It's all okay because "war is hell."

None of those are the equivalent of executing war criminals on the spot, or allowing their victims to do so.

Yeah they are. They're all war crimes, and all justified under your oft-repeated platitude that you don't understand the meaning of.

You seem oddly upset that nobody banged a gavel first.

That's how international law works. Due process, not wartime vigilantism.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

And you're oddly calm about war crimes when they happen to people you particularly hate.

And as a reminder, I hate the Nazis too.

Except that evidence was presented for prosecution, and the authority over the matter decided against trial.

Not because there was insufficient evidence, but because they didn't want to prosecute soldiers for killing Nazis.

[Salus Maior]

In war, one side loses. I'm sorry you can't give a gold star to all participants that showed up.

Oh, please. That's not what this is about.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

In war, one side loses. I'm sorry you can't give a gold star to all participants that showed up.

Just caught this. What the other guy said.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Yeah they are. They're all war crimes, and all justified under your oft-repeated platitude that you don't understand the meaning of.

That's how international law works. Due process, not wartime vigilantism.

There is a report that one of the SS officers protested that he was supposed to be tried first before he was shot to death. He was given the courtesy of being told he was guilty before being shot in the face. Now, that seems rather cynical, but the guy was caught red-handed participating in the operation of a death camp. Certainly not the most ideal of circumstances for all parties involved, but the guy was really spared some time of listening to prosecutors blather on about how guilty he already knew he was before he was inevitably executed.

I get it though. You need your justice to have an opening ceremony. So that you're better than a dog, right?

That's not how due process works.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Not because there was insufficient evidence, but because they didn't want to prosecute soldiers for killing Nazis.

They didn't want to prosecute Dachau camp prisoners either. Have you tried hashtagging #JusticeForTheDachau50?

I don't even use Twitter.

Oh wait, you can't even find consistent body count figures.

Gee, I wonder what could've helped fix that? A full investigation maybe?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

That's not how due process works.

Too bad Dachau wasn't a law school, huh?

You're just one dumb argument after another aren't you?

That's completely fucking irrelevant a question to ask.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

You're just one dumb argument after another aren't you?

That's completely fucking irrelevant a question to ask.

Calm down, your grammar is suffering.

No it isn't.

I don't even use Twitter.

Gee, I wonder what could've helped fix that? A full investigation maybe?

You don't have insufficient evidence, but need a full investigation, because NAZIS WUZ KILT.

A massacre happened. There is evidence for that through testimonies and dead Nazis in places where there shouldn't be dead Nazis. What a full investigation and a trial would ascertain is exactly how many dead there were and who is responsible.

Ja, indeed. Thanks for playing.

Ganjabong confirmed for not understanding due process.

[Prydania]

If you're trying to paint me as a Nazi apologist then you've already failed.

He seems to have succeeded tbh. You seem to care more about SS soldiers then the people they brutalized and killed as part of a genocidal national policy they willingly bought into.

There is literally zero situations where killing a Nazi is not OK.

This is the kind of attitude that causes so much death and pain

Know what attitude lead to so much death and pain? Nazism.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

If you're trying to paint me as a Nazi apologist then you've already failed.

He seems to have succeeded tbh. You seem to care more about SS soldiers then the people they brutalized and killed as part of a genocidal national policy they willingly bought into.

I don't care about the SS soldiers (I'm 100% confident they would've been found guilty if they held a trial), I care about upholding standards for US soldiers who are supposed to be beholden to international laws of war.

You too are trying to paint me as a Nazi apologist, and you too are failing.

[Prydania]

He seems to have succeeded tbh. You seem to care more about SS soldiers then the people they brutalized and killed as part of a genocidal national policy they willingly bought into.

I don't care about the SS soldiers (I'm 100% confident they would've been found guilty if they held a trial), I care about upholding standards for US soldiers who are supposed to be beholden to international laws of war.

You too are trying to paint me as a Nazi apologist, and you too are failing.

Anyone who cries over dead Nazis over the people Nazis killed will always have that problem. Deal with it if you want to keep crying about Nazis I guess.

[Farnhamia]

Almost like there's an inherent difference to Judaism and Nazism or something, I'd imagine.

And there's an inherent difference between being a Jew and being a human.

Look inside yourself Torrocca, you're a tankie with more in common with the Nazis than with freedom lovers.

*** 3 day ban for trolling. ***

Watching the back-and-forth "You!" "No, you!" that's taken over the thread, I think we're done here. Do not repost.