Poland to possibly hold constitutional change referendum.

[Petrolheadia]

https://polandinenglish.info/38157980/p ... referendum
https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/10140634/pre ... wania.html

Yesterday, Pres. Andrzej Duda announced that he wants a constitutional referendum on 10th/11th November of this year (the 2nd day will be the 100th anniversary of Poland regaining independence after partitions).
The Senate is now going to be asked about allowing that, although the referendum will be non-binding - the current constitution states it takes 2/3s of the Sejm to change the constitution, not a referendum.

The questions would be (my translation):
1. Do you support:
- enacting a new constitution,
- changing the current one,
- leaving it without changes?

2. Do you support constitutional normalization of the duty to perform a binding national referendum at citizens' proposal?

3. Do you support:
- a presidential system (strengthening the position),
- a cabinet system (strengthening the Prime Minister and Board of Ministers and the choice of president by the National Assembly),
- keeping the current model?

4. Do you support:
- single-mandate constituencies,
- keeping the current model,
- joining both methods (mixed system)?

5. Do you support emphasizing the Christian sources of Polish nationality and the Polish state's culture in the constitution?

6. Do you support a constitutional normation of Poland's membership in the European Union and NATO?

7. Do you support a constitutional guarantee of protection for Polish farming and Poland's food security?

8. Do you support constitutionally guaranteeing the protection of family, motherhood and fatherhood, inviolability of 500+, protection of pregnant women, children and elderly people?

9. Do you support constitutionally guaranteeing special labor protection and a right to retire attained at the legal age of 60 for women and 65 for men?

10. Do you support a constitional regulation of the division of autonomies of gmina, powiat and województwo?

https://polandinenglish.info/38093600/p ... nstitution

According to CBOS' poll, 50% of Poles want to attain the referendum, 41% don't, and 9% are undecided.
76% want the constitution amended, 18% prefer the status quo and 6% are not sure.
Among those who support the status quo, 38% will vote, 41% won't and 21% are not sure.
31% were positive on the amending, 51% were negative and 18% had no opinion.

In Poland, the legal minimum of voters participating for a referendum to be valid is 50%.

What do you think, NSG?

I think the referendum will be held and will go slightly over the 50% minimum needed for it to be valid. Most of the status quo regarding the government's functioning will be kept. The "Christian sources" question, the normalization ones and at least most of the social ones will pass.

My answers:

1. No changes.
2-10. -.

[Trumptonium1]

The 6th is retarded so no doubt Kaczynski won't agree to it.

[Petrolheadia]

The 6th is retarded so no doubt Kaczynski won't agree to it.

As if it was the only stupid thing there...

[Trumptonium1]

The 6th is retarded so no doubt Kaczynski won't agree to it.

As if it was the only stupid thing there...

1-5 are fine. 2-4 are just governance questions which were never asked.

6th is catastrophic, 8th is moronic, the others are just dumb. Although 10 needs a solution if not constitutional.

I wonder if they will rescind the 1995 Referendum law to remove the 50 threshold, given that the last one failed miserably.

[Vsyerossiya]

Over here in the East, we just enjoy watching Warsaw’s circus antics. Polish politics is a bigger joke than Trump’s hair. Thank goodness they don’t have nuclear weapons, because I’m certain that Kaczynski would launch them if he felt doing so would bring more voters into PiS (Piss). A crazed Catholic zealot (Kaczynski), a German collaborationist (Tusk), and a zombie (Duda) walk into a bar…

[Trumptonium1]

Over here in the East, we just enjoy watching Warsaw’s circus antics. Polish politics is a bigger joke than Trump’s hair. Thank goodness they don’t have nuclear weapons, because I’m certain that Kaczynski would launch them if he felt doing so would bring more voters into PiS (Piss). A crazed Catholic zealot (Kaczynski), a German collaborationist (Tusk), and a zombie (Duda) walk into a bar…

Your jokes are as dead as your relevance.

[Petrolheadia]

Over here in the East, we just enjoy watching Warsaw’s circus antics. Polish politics is a bigger joke than Trump’s hair. Thank goodness they don’t have nuclear weapons, because I’m certain that Kaczynski would launch them if he felt doing so would bring more voters into PiS (Piss). A crazed Catholic zealot (Kaczynski), a German collaborationist (Tusk), and a zombie (Duda) walk into a bar…

If you're Russian, why are you looking abroad for laughs? You'll find more at home.

[Grozlind]

C-can...can America have one of these too? begins crying

[The Burke Islands]

Don’t really know much about Polish politics but referendums are usually a good idea in my book.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Don’t really know much about Polish politics but referendums are usually a good idea in my book.

If the people are informed enough on the issues to make a valid choice, yes. The technical details of constitutional matters are usually only of interest to policy wonks, and opening constitutional reform to public affirmation is usually used as a tactic to legitimise a power grab.

Which can either be good or bad, depending on whether you think the guys trying to grab power are doing the right thing. But it's not necessarily about "more democracy".

[Valrifell]

Over here in the East, we just enjoy watching Warsaw’s circus antics. Polish politics is a bigger joke than Trump’s hair. Thank goodness they don’t have nuclear weapons, because I’m certain that Kaczynski would launch them if he felt doing so would bring more voters into PiS (Piss). A crazed Catholic zealot (Kaczynski), a German collaborationist (Tusk), and a zombie (Duda) walk into a bar…

Your jokes are as dead as your relevance.

We're posting on an obscure forum to discuss politics, nobody here has any relevance.

[Auze]

Your jokes are as dead as your relevance.

We're posting on an obscure forum to discuss politics, nobody here has any relevance.

In terms of relevance, we are somewhere between spacebattles and anynowhere.

[Chan Island]

Over here in the East, we just enjoy watching Warsaw’s circus antics. Polish politics is a bigger joke than Trump’s hair. Thank goodness they don’t have nuclear weapons, because I’m certain that Kaczynski would launch them if he felt doing so would bring more voters into PiS (Piss). A crazed Catholic zealot (Kaczynski), a German collaborationist (Tusk), and a zombie (Duda) walk into a bar…

Your jokes are as dead as your relevance.

He said on a site with a global population of about 50000 people, on said site's forum, on a board that rarely sees 1000 unique individuals on any given day.

We are all irrelevant mate.

[Auze]

Your jokes are as dead as your relevance.

He said on a site with a global population of about 50000 people, on said site's forum, on a board that rarely sees 1000 unique individuals on any given day.

We are all irrelevant mate.

... On a thread with a little more than 200 views at the time of this typing.

[Western-Ukraine]

I'm siding with Duda here. Poland is between a rock and a hard place, difficult decisions need to be made. It's better to take the harsh approach, lest they risk many dangers.

1. Enacting a new constitution is fine. Poland is currently in fine hands.
2. No. Binding referendums are dangerous. Not everything can be trusted to the whims of the electorate when important decisions are made.
3. Presidential system is necessary in this volatile world. More power in the position is good.
4. Single-mandate constituencies are the way to go.
5. Absolutely. There are Islamic states and a Jewish state, so we need Christian states. I wish it wasn't necessary, but Christianity is our bulwark against foreign religions. It's not yet the time for secularism.
6. Only in NATO, the necessary evil. The EU is just a mess, with the refugee crisis and overall weakness.
7. Yes. Domestic farming must always be protected.
8. Yes. We must do everything to protect family values and the traditional institutions.
9. No. There's a lot of uncertainty in this regard, we can't guarantee these rights on a whim when so many populations are at a turning point.
10. Yes. Regional autonomy, local government and small communities are important systems to uphold.

[Vsyerossiya]

Over here in the East, we just enjoy watching Warsaw’s circus antics. Polish politics is a bigger joke than Trump’s hair. Thank goodness they don’t have nuclear weapons, because I’m certain that Kaczynski would launch them if he felt doing so would bring more voters into PiS (Piss). A crazed Catholic zealot (Kaczynski), a German collaborationist (Tusk), and a zombie (Duda) walk into a bar…

If you're Russian, why are you looking abroad for laughs? You’ll find more at home.

Hey, I like poking holes in the ego of «польские паны». If there is anything more obnoxious, it’s the typical Polish snobism.

[The Earth Systems Alliance]

Petition to split Poland again between Germany and Russia oof

I'm fairly certain the Poles will make the right choice. And they will have to bear the consequences.

[Vsyerossiya]

Petition to split Poland again between Germany and Russia oof

I'm fairly certain the Poles will make the right choice. And they will have to bear the consequences.

Just re-create the Congress Kingdom of Poland (minus the monarchy).

[The Earth Systems Alliance]

Petition to split Poland again between Germany and Russia oof

I'm fairly certain the Poles will make the right choice. And they will have to bear the consequences.

Just re-create the Congress Kingdom of Poland (minus the monarchy).

Splitting is much better

In addition, it is rather funny watching Polish MPs argue, this is from the Euro Parliament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40hhc0cjYyg

[Trumptonium1]

If you're Russian, why are you looking abroad for laughs? You’ll find more at home.

Hey, I like poking holes in the ego of «польские паны». If there is anything more obnoxious, it’s the typical Polish snobism.

There's nothing snobby about escaping poverty and poking fun at your kidnapper for still being in it, albeit in a much worse position than before.

I would say the correct term is a bit of schadenfreude.

[Shofercia]

If you're Russian, why are you looking abroad for laughs? You’ll find more at home.

Hey, I like poking holes in the ego of «польские паны». If there is anything more obnoxious, it’s the typical Polish snobism.

You could also ask the Poles "which partition are you referring to?" every time they mention partitions

Petition to split Poland again between Germany and Russia oof

I'm fairly certain the Poles will make the right choice. And they will have to bear the consequences.

Hahaha, bear the consequences

Hey, I like poking holes in the ego of «польские паны». If there is anything more obnoxious, it’s the typical Polish snobism.

There's nothing snobby about escaping poverty and poking fun at your kidnapper for still being in it, albeit in a much worse position than before.

I would say the correct term is a bit of schadenfreude.

GDP PPP per capita:
Poland: 29,291
Russia: 25,533

That's hardly a comparison between Heaven and Hell. A more apt comparison would be:
Belarus: 18,848
Kosovo: 10,754
Ukraine: 8,667

As for looking at countries that were on par with Poland:
Czech Republic: 36,916
Slovakia: 32,111
Poland: 29,291

[Erdogan in cool sunglasses]

The 6th is retarded so no doubt Kaczynski won't agree to it.

They probably think people just vote "no" in this question which will put PiS in stronger position in negotiations in the EU. Kaczyński have known the questions earlier (Duda had shown them to the Marshall of the Senate) and agreed on them. But on the other hand he admitted that the proposed term of the referendum is wrong so probably he wanted to make the negotiations as long as possible to put him in better position and to make Duda remove this question.

[Diopolis]

I generally trust Duda. I’m sure he’s going to do good things with a new constitution.

[Aellex]

Referendums are the best way to show the people's will and if they think that a constitutional change is needed, then it should happen.

[Petrolheadia]

Hey, I like poking holes in the ego of «польские паны». If there is anything more obnoxious, it’s the typical Polish snobism.

You could also ask the Poles "which partition are you referring to?" every time they mention partitions

Petition to split Poland again between Germany and Russia oof

I'm fairly certain the Poles will make the right choice. And they will have to bear the consequences.

Hahaha, bear the consequences

There's nothing snobby about escaping poverty and poking fun at your kidnapper for still being in it, albeit in a much worse position than before.

I would say the correct term is a bit of schadenfreude.

GDP PPP per capita:
Poland: 29,291
Russia: 25,533

That's hardly a comparison between Heaven and Hell. A more apt comparison would be:
Belarus: 18,848
Kosovo: 10,754
Ukraine: 8,667

As for looking at countries that were on par with Poland:
Czech Republic: 36,916
Slovakia: 32,111
Poland: 29,291

PPP average wage, as per Wikipedia:
- Poland - $1948,
- Czech Republic - $1894,
- Slovakia - $1806,
- Belarus - $1503,
- Russia - $1356,
- Kosovo - $1150,
- Ukraine - $930.