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[DEFEATED] Repeal GAR#408 Ban On Secret Treaties

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The Eternal Kawaii
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Founded: Apr 21, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Eternal Kawaii » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:58 pm

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We wish to remind this chamber of our words when this proposal was first debated:

We rise in confusion over this proposal. Basically, it boils down to one question:
If two nations were intent on conspiring against a third, why would they care what the Compliance Commission thought of the legality of their conspiracy?


GAR #408 is by its nature unenforceable, so it may as well be repealed.
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Kranostav
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Founded: Apr 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 pm

The Eternal Kawaii wrote:In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We wish to remind this chamber of our words when this proposal was first debated:

We rise in confusion over this proposal. Basically, it boils down to one question:
If two nations were intent on conspiring against a third, why would they care what the Compliance Commission thought of the legality of their conspiracy?


GAR #408 is by its nature unenforceable, so it may as well be repealed.

So because entities will break laws, we should just abolish the WA right?

Just because a corrupt entity intends to break a law doesn't mean that law is unenforceable, hell, by that standard the entire WA is unenforceable.
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The Constitutional Monarchy of Kranostav
Author of GAR #423

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:50 pm

Kranostav wrote:So because entities will break laws, we should just abolish the WA right?

OOC: Not because of that, but yes, we should, so that it could be recreated and get started from zero again. :P

...not that it's going to happen as it'd be too much work for the admins.
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Khaldaia
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Khaldaia » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:12 am

It appears that some are forgetting the existence of watchdog organizations and international courts.

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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:19 am

Araraukar wrote:
Kranostav wrote:So because entities will break laws, we should just abolish the WA right?

OOC: Not because of that, but yes, we should, so that it could be recreated and get started from zero again. :P

...not that it's going to happen as it'd be too much work for the admins.


Ooc: as I recall, Max himself has sworn right off ever doing a reset again.

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Dirty Americans
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Dirty Americans » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: as I recall, Max himself has sworn right off ever doing a reset again.


Ooc: "sworn off?" That's a little disconcerting considering that the reset was done at the point of the barrel of a potential lawsuit and a cease and desist letter. Was he actually thinking of doing it before the April 1st UN lawsuit?
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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:16 am

Dirty Americans wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: as I recall, Max himself has sworn right off ever doing a reset again.


Ooc: "sworn off?" That's a little disconcerting considering that the reset was done at the point of the barrel of a potential lawsuit and a cease and desist letter. Was he actually thinking of doing it before the April 1st UN lawsuit?

Not as I understand it. Fris has posted in this forum a few times that Max refuses to do another reset. His reasoning is open for speculation.

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Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland
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Founded: Jul 07, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Dirty Americans wrote:
Ooc: "sworn off?" That's a little disconcerting considering that the reset was done at the point of the barrel of a potential lawsuit and a cease and desist letter. Was he actually thinking of doing it before the April 1st UN lawsuit?

Not as I understand it. Fris has posted in this forum a few times that Max refuses to do another reset. His reasoning is open for speculation.

OOC: He said it in MaxChat 6:
<@MaxBarry> I would never do another reset like that

But the link to the log of that on the NS site no longer seems to work and I can't find another log.

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Kranostav
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:47 am

Araraukar wrote:
Kranostav wrote:So because entities will break laws, we should just abolish the WA right?

OOC: Not because of that, but yes, we should, so that it could be recreated and get started from zero again. :P

...not that it's going to happen as it'd be too much work for the admins.

Id love to re-debate abortion, freedom of speech, all the environmental legislation again! That would be a splendid time! :p
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The Constitutional Monarchy of Kranostav
Author of GAR #423

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Peoples Republic of Stafford
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Founded: Nov 06, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Peoples Republic of Stafford » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:19 pm

Our delegation finds that the natural intent of this repeal is in good nature. A ban on "Secret Treaties" is not only naturally difficult to enforce, it also infringes on a nation's sovereign rights to conduct diplomacy with other nations without interference from a third party.

However, we also find that this resolution was not put through the correct process for submission, and may very well be illegal. Finding that there is no way to amend this resolution having been submitted. We hereby cast our votes against this resolution with note that; if a more well written version that has properly been put through a fair period of debate and amending, this delegation may very well vote for that resolution.

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Shazbotdom
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Founded: Sep 28, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Shazbotdom » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:03 pm

"It is still honestly hilarious to Empire that World Assembly feels that the resolution that this is repealing is a good idea. what right does this International body have to dictate that its member Nations have to the public about all treaties, including Mutual Defense Pacts?" Ambassador Flaberghast asks, then takes a shop of water. "If two member wish to join into a mutual defense pact against more aggressive Nations, that should be there choice and not have to report said Alliance to this August body. all this does, is create a place where stronger Nations can put forth a request for information on other nations to see if they are in alliances and then use that as a method to Target Nations for hostile takeover. if that is the purpose of the target resolution of this repeal, then it needs to be stricken from the records of this body with extreme prejudice."
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Jocospor
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:45 am

Wallenburg wrote:
Mentoka wrote:I posted this over in the challenge thread, but thought I would post it here, just in case people decide not to read the minutiae of that thread:


This does not belong here.


The Imperial Empire agrees with you. As we've said, there's great corrupt in the World Assembly. We wouldn't be surprised if one or two General Assembly Secretariats' sisters' nieces were sleeping with a few of the Imperium Anglorum elite.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


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Jocospor
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Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:53 am

Shazbotdom wrote:"It is still honestly hilarious to Empire that World Assembly feels that the resolution that this is repealing is a good idea. what right does this International body have to dictate that its member Nations have to the public about all treaties, including Mutual Defense Pacts?" Ambassador Flaberghast asks, then takes a shop of water. "If two member wish to join into a mutual defense pact against more aggressive Nations, that should be there choice and not have to report said Alliance to this August body. all this does, is create a place where stronger Nations can put forth a request for information on other nations to see if they are in alliances and then use that as a method to Target Nations for hostile takeover. if that is the purpose of the target resolution of this repeal, then it needs to be stricken from the records of this body with extreme prejudice."


Look, the current resolution is likely to get defeated. It's okay, we'll admit it. Defeat always precedes victory.

Good, because if it is illegal - which it is, so there can't be any reneging on that, thank you very much - we'll redraft it and resubmit it. And when we say redraft, we will probably include the forum this time. How good's that, eh!

Bad, because it cost us about $4.41 in wasted telegram stamps.

We'd like to thank all the nations that understand our righteous intentions. Together, we can look forward to bringing order to a new World Assembly. Read about the Flaws of the World Assembly here.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:33 am

Jocospor wrote:Good, because if it is illegal - which it is, so there can't be any reneging on that, thank you very much - we'll redraft it and resubmit it. And when we say redraft, we will probably include the forum this time. How good's that, eh!

(OOC: That is good news; forum drafting is pretty much essential to passing a proposal unless one has years of experience, particularly when repealing a resolution passed by an experienced player. Make sure that this step takes a decent amount of time though, there’s not much point if you just draft for a few days.)
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Democratic Empire of Romania
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Democratic Empire of Romania » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:02 am

Watch your words, Jocospor !
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Lamoni
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lamoni » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:05 am

Jocospor wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:This does not belong here.


The Imperial Empire agrees with you. As we've said, there's great corrupt in the World Assembly. We wouldn't be surprised if one or two General Assembly Secretariats' sisters' nieces were sleeping with a few of the Imperium Anglorum elite.


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Kranostav
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Founded: Apr 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:12 pm

If you wish to resubmit, flaming and acting like a child won't help with securing votes from active people on the forums or really anyone who has witnessed this cesspool of discourse.

Anywho, best of luck with your re-submission... you are really going to need it.
The North Pacific Minister of World Assembly Affairs
The Constitutional Monarchy of Kranostav
Author of GAR #423

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The Eternal Kawaii
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Founded: Apr 21, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Eternal Kawaii » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:23 pm

The vote tally in Anime is 0-4, so despite our misgivings about the usefulness of this resolution, apparently our region thinks it should remain on the books. We have accordingly voted No on the repeal.
Learn More about The Eternal Kawaii from our Factbook!

"Aside from being illegal, it's not like Max Barry Day was that bad of a resolution." -- Glen Rhodes
"as a member of the GA elite, I don't have to take this" -- Vancouvia

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Hiram Land
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Founded: May 10, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hiram Land » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:24 pm

My delegation has voted NO on the repeal.

35 minutes until this ends and we all obviously know that the repeal isn't going to pass.
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Prydania
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Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:51 am


OOC: I have been playing this game on and off for twelve years. Sometimes I've been more active in the WA, sometimes I haven't.

Regardless, I'm telling you that you're wasting your time with that.
"We truly believe the World Assembly's days are numbered, if issues within its dimly-lit corridors are not addressed."

Look. I don't mean to sound dismissive. I'm just going to explain the fact of the matter; the WA is not going anywhere. You think you're the first group of players to play the anti-UN/WA role in this game? You're not. Not by a long shot. And like everyone else before you? You're throwing yourself up against a brick wall.
Not for any IC reasons. For the simple fact that the WA is a vital component of this game for A LOT of people. It drives player participation, forum activity, feeds the raider/defender mechanic, and earns revenue for the site. Not to mention that a UN-sort of organization is vital for any geo-political simulator, which NS is.

So you've got two options.
If you dislike the WA that much? Leave. You'll cease to be affected by its resolutions, and there are certainly a number of other ways to play and enjoy this game.

If you're IC trying to change the culture of the WA? Then it's really down to the slogan "git gud."
You mention, in your dispatch...
"We all know Delegate Imperium Anglorum has authored a plethora of resolutions. The block alliance he has created ensures that his faction's monopoly over the World Assembly will continue unchecked."
In other words? IA gas gotten quite good at playing this game and you're not happy about that. Well if you want to change that, get as good as he's gotten. Or better. Figure out how to play the WA game effectively to push through legislation you want enacted. Learn from IA. Don't wine about him because he's better at this than you are.

In short? Reach out and network. Don't post a whiny dispatch about how you didn't get your way.

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