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[SUBMITTED - 6/4/2020] No Smoke Without Fire

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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[SUBMITTED - 6/4/2020] No Smoke Without Fire

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:06 am

My attempt at writing an issue about insurance fraud.

Inspired by the suspicious rise in the number of factory fires in Turkey.

Draft 2

[description]The sirens of the fire engines wail in the air, and a heavy gray smoke cloud hanging over @@CAPITAL@@ obstructs the sunlight. There is yet another factory fire in the capital, fanning the flames of the popular rumor that factory owners who are on the brink of bankruptcy due to the recent financial crisis are deliberately setting fire to their businesses to get money from insurance.

[validity] capitalist, bad economy, non-zero insurance industry

1. [option]"Th- this is the - *cough* - excuse me, four hundred and fifty first fire we have had to reimburse for this year," sputters @@RANDOMNAME@@, an insurance agent from Sure Thing Insurance®, in between coughs. "This sudden surge in the number of fires cannot be explained by anything other than fraud. A candle accidentally knocked over by a careless worker, an iron forgotten on the ironing board... What is an ironing board even doing in a porcelain factory? We clearly need strong deterrent laws to keep people from abusing the system - like punishing proven fraudsters by making them pay the amount they were trying to claim to the insurance companies they were trying to steal from."

[effect]getting money from life insurance requires claimants to prove that their loved ones did not die deliberately

2. [option]"What? No!" screams Flint Stone, the owner of the aforementioned porcelain factory, driving into your office with a pedal-powered wooden car. "We use those irons to, err, to heat the ceramic tiles when the oven is out of order. Yes, that's it! These greedy insurance companies always find excuses to avoid paying poor policyholders! You need to create a team to independently assess these accidents and hold these companies accountable to pay when the insurance claims are reasonable."

[effect]former arsonists are applying to work for the government as pyrotechnicians

3. [option]"No offense, @@LEADER@@, but our economy is doing very badly, and that's why these incidents of arson are happening," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Business and Commerce. "These people have huge debts, but no cash to pay them off. To avoid insolvency, they take the easy solution and burn their businesses to get instant cash from the insurance companies. Maybe if we provided generous loans to these businesses with low-interest rates, these arsons would stop."

[effect]the government often finds itself signing off loans for start-up companies with non-starter ideas

4. [option]"This discussion got me thinking... You know, @@LEADER@@, your office building is getting a bit worn out, and it'd be a real shame if there was a fire, wouldn't it?" mutters Mary Condo, a distant cousin of yours who has a penchant for redecorating spaces. "Your office is packed with clutter that does not really spark joy when I look at it... except for these decorative candles I got for you. Maybe it is time for an overhaul?" She proceeds to strike a match to light your candles.

[effect]@@CAPITAL@@ is permanently canopied by a thick gray smoke cloud


[description]The sirens of the fire engines wail in the air, and a heavy gray smoke cloud hanging over @@CAPITAL@@ obstructs the sunlight. There is yet another factory fire in the capital, fanning the flames of the popular rumor that factory owners who have come to the brink of bankruptcy due to the recent financial crisis are deliberately setting fire to their businesses to get money from insurance.

[validity] capitalist, bad economy

1. [option]"Th- this is the - cough - excuse me, four hundred and fifty first fire we have had to reimburse for this year," sputters @@RANDOMNAME@@, an insurance agent from Sure Thing Insurance®, in between coughs. "This sudden surge in the number of fires cannot be explained by anything other than fraud. A candle accidentally knocked over by a careless worker, an iron forgotten on the ironing board... What is an ironing board even doing in a porcelain factory? @@LEADER@@, please abolish all regulations on the insurance industry and allow us to dismiss claims to reimbursement that we don't find credible, so we won't have to pay these deceitful scoundrels."

[effect]life insurance refuses to pay beneficiaries unless they can prove that the policyholder did not die deliberately

2. [option]"What? No!" screams Flint Stone, the owner of the aforementioned porcelain factory, driving into your office with a pedal-powered wooden car. "We use those irons to, err, to heat the ceramic tiles when the oven is out of order. Yes, that's it! Deregulation of the insurance industry will simply put too much power in the hands of these greedy capitalists and victimize the poor sufferers who have religiously paid their premiums, @@LEADER@@. Insurance companies should be made to reimburse their policyholders for damages without questioning!"

[effect]@@CAPITAL@@ is permanently canopied by a thick gray smoke cloud

3. [option]"No offense, @@LEADER@@, but our economy is doing very badly, and that's why these arsons are happening," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Finance. "These people have huge debts, but no cash to pay them off. To avoid insolvency, they take the easy solution and burn their businesses to get instant cash from the insurance companies. I'm sure these arsons would stop if our government undertook to pay the debts of business owners who are in financial distress."

[effect]the government often finds itself signing off rescue packages for start-up companies with non-starter ideas
Last edited by Frieden-und Freudenland on Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:54 am

Option 1- so the insurance company is deliberately burning down that factory? Also, maybe mention something about wasted resources
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:55 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- so the insurance company is deliberately burning down that factory? Also, maybe mention something about wasted resources

No, not the insurance company. The owners are burning down their own factories deliberately. At least this is what is implied here.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:21 pm

I am very sad that Flint Stone is not being accompanied by a dinosaur, nor driving to @@LEADER@@ in a wooden car that he actually runs with.
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Chan Island wrote:I am very sad that Flint Stone is not being accompanied by a dinosaur, nor driving to @@LEADER@@ in a wooden car that he actually runs with.

Haha - and such a car would be allowed even in countries that banned cars, right? :p

Not sure if dinosaurs are relevant, though.

Fire-spitting dragons could be relevant, of course.

Hey, wait a second. Should they be relevant???
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

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Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:50 pm

The description seems clumsy, and I would suggest rewording it. Good premise. I like the reference in option one to 451 F. I wouldn't suggest using * in issues, rather, just use ". Not a fan of the second effect line, though. The third line of dialogue in the third option is redundant.

I like this issue, but I also am a fan of economic issues all around (I know, I'm a nerd :geek:). A few touch ups, and it will be there.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:42 pm

Sacara wrote:I wouldn't suggest using * in issues, rather, just use ".
Quotation marks do not denote emphasis.

Italics would be better.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:29 am

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- so the insurance company is deliberately burning down that factory? Also, maybe mention something about wasted resources

No, not the insurance company. The owners are burning down their own factories deliberately. At least this is what is implied here.

Please re-examine the wording
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:10 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:No, not the insurance company. The owners are burning down their own factories deliberately. At least this is what is implied here.

Please re-examine the wording


factory owners who have come to the brink of bankruptcy due to the recent financial crisis are deliberately setting fire to their businesses to get money from insurance

How does that imply that the insurance companies are burning down factories? :blink:
Last edited by Frieden-und Freudenland on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
~Walt Whitman

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:34 am

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:
Chan Island wrote:I am very sad that Flint Stone is not being accompanied by a dinosaur, nor driving to @@LEADER@@ in a wooden car that he actually runs with.

Haha - and such a car would be allowed even in countries that banned cars, right? :p

Not sure if dinosaurs are relevant, though.

Fire-spitting dragons could be relevant, of course.

Hey, wait a second. Should they be relevant???

Alright, I added a reference to a pedal-powered wooden car in Option 2. I did not mention dragons, though. :p
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
~Walt Whitman

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:56 am

All three options are crazy, and I would dismiss this issue. Just sayin'.

Obviously you should never present issues that are too easy to answer, but it's also good not to make them too easy to dismiss. Maybe tone it down to something along the lines of:

1) Our adjusters can catch them out, sometimes, but the risk-reward calculation means people keep trying. Have the law punish proven fraudsters by making them pay the amount they were trying to claim to the insurance companies they were trying to steal from.
2) It's already too hard to get insurance companies to pay out when they should be doing so. Create a state-run appeal process where insurance companies can be forced to pay up when government assessors think the claim is being reasonable.
3) A properly crazy option here instead. Something like saying "hey, they're onto something here. The parliament building is getting a bit worn out, and it'd be a real shame if there was a fire, wouldn't it?"
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:05 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:1) Our adjusters can catch them out, sometimes, but the risk-reward calculation means people keep trying. Have the law punish proven fraudsters by making them pay the amount they were trying to claim to the insurance companies they were trying to steal from.
2) It's already too hard to get insurance companies to pay out when they should be doing so. Create a state-run appeal process where insurance companies can be forced to pay up when government assessors think the claim is being reasonable.
Wouldn't most nations already be doing both of these things? (Or, well, punishing proven fraudsters somehow, maybe not that exact method.)

The problem is that both rely on the government's judgement of a claim being reasonable or a fraud, and the government isn't omniscient. However, judging individual cases would be a matter for the courts, not @@LEADER@@.

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Tue May 12, 2020 4:47 pm

Bump. New draft is up.

Grave-digging my own thread :p
Last edited by Frieden-und Freudenland on Tue May 12, 2020 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue May 12, 2020 6:23 pm

Isn't it already a crime to commit insurance fraud? Why are we assuming it's not?
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All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Tue May 12, 2020 7:26 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Isn't it already a crime to commit insurance fraud? Why are we assuming it's not?

We are not trying to criminalize it. The idea is to combat it.

Murder is also illegal, but if a country has very high murder rates, something needs to be done about it.
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Thu May 14, 2020 4:08 pm

Uhm... bump?
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My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
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(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
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SherpDaWerp
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Postby SherpDaWerp » Thu May 14, 2020 5:04 pm

Couple points:

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:factory owners who have come to the brink of bankruptcy
Factory owners who are on the brink of bankruptcy, perhaps?

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:capitalist, bad economy
Maybe also check for a non-zero Insurance industry?

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:cough - excuse me
Cough in dialogue tends to indicate that the character has just said "cough", not that the character is coughing. If it's remaining in dialogue, you need to replace this with an onomatopoeia of coughing, so it indicates that the character made coughing noises, not just said "cough". "ahem" would work.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:these arsons are happening
These incidents of arson, perhaps - arsons is technically correct but it feels odd to read or imagine someone saying.

I'm torn between my favourite part being Flint Stone, or Mary Kondo. They're both such well-done characters!
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Tue May 19, 2020 3:55 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:Couple points:

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:factory owners who have come to the brink of bankruptcy
Factory owners who are on the brink of bankruptcy, perhaps?

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:capitalist, bad economy
Maybe also check for a non-zero Insurance industry?

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:cough - excuse me
Cough in dialogue tends to indicate that the character has just said "cough", not that the character is coughing. If it's remaining in dialogue, you need to replace this with an onomatopoeia of coughing, so it indicates that the character made coughing noises, not just said "cough". "ahem" would work.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:these arsons are happening
These incidents of arson, perhaps - arsons is technically correct but it feels odd to read or imagine someone saying.

I'm torn between my favourite part being Flint Stone, or Mary Kondo. They're both such well-done characters!

Thank you, the draft is updated!

(Well, I just didn't implement your suggestion about the cough, because ahem - to me - indicates that the person has coughed deliberately, whereas in this case I was trying to show that the insurance agent had been inspecting too many fires and got exposed to too much smoke, so he is coughing right now. I don't know if this was too obscure.)

Anyway, I put the word cough in between asterisks, so maybe it is easier to read it as an onomatopoeic representation of a cough right now?
Last edited by Frieden-und Freudenland on Tue May 19, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
~Walt Whitman

User avatar
Frieden-und Freudenland
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Posts: 2276
Founded: Jul 30, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:26 pm

Bumpty Dumpty
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
~Walt Whitman

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Founded: Jul 30, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm

Submitted :)
When I write, I don't have an accent.

My issues

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
~Walt Whitman

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:03 pm

Good Luck!
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
From Greek ancestry Orthodox Christian
Issues and WA Proposals Written By Me |Issue Ideas You Can Steal
I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious


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