Religion v. The Nation

by **The Huskar Social Union** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:36 am

Well im an atheist so one of those is out the window immediately. And im not the type of person to just blindly support the country im from in every situation, so it depends on the context but would largely lie with the nation.

by **United Muscovite Nations** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:40 am

Bakery Hill wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Religion is a loyalty of belief, of common cause and viewpoint. Nationality is a loyalty of language. I chose my religion, but I did not choose my nation. It is natural, therefore, to have more loyalty to the religion, and to desire the nation to adhere to its beliefs as well. Religion sanctifies, but nationality does not.

Nationality is not just language though.

Nationality is an abstraction of things like language, culture, and common ancestry. It's not an identity founded on common belief, was my main point.

by **Erythrean Thebes** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:39 am

Who cares if they have contradictory goals? I don't have contradictory goals, I have my own goals, and they function in perfect harmony despite the diversity of interests I have.

by **Internationalist Bastard** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:47 am

Erythrean Thebes wrote:Who cares if they have contradictory goals? I don't have contradictory goals, I have my own goals, and they function in perfect harmony despite the diversity of interests I have.

This pretty much

by **Valrifell** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:58 am

Jokes on you I lack any conviction and loyalty whatsoever.

by **The South Falls** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:04 pm

Erythrean Thebes wrote:Who cares if they have contradictory goals? I don't have contradictory goals, I have my own goals, and they function in perfect harmony despite the diversity of interests I have.

Alright. Sounds pretty good. It's your goals, anyway. I won't tramp on them.

unless you are disloyal to the US

by **Erythrean Thebes** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:55 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:Who cares if they have contradictory goals? I don't have contradictory goals, I have my own goals, and they function in perfect harmony despite the diversity of interests I have.

Alright. Sounds pretty good. It's your goals, anyway. I won't tramp on them.

unless you are disloyal to the US

Hmph. You should ask her about it. But I hear she's with a rough crowd these days...

by **Pope Joan** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:57 pm

Mennonites consider themselves citizens of no single nation, but rather members of a global community. We are generally very good at paying our taxes and avoiding criminal activity, but this attitude together with our refusal to serve in the military has led many different national governments to dispossess, beat, and imprison us.

Good old Murrica, where the stars and stripes are flown on a level with the altar at worship, and often at a height somewhat greater than the Christian flag which may be displayed on the opposite side of the altar,

At one church I kept putting a thin magazine under the Christian flag every Saturday night. On most Sunday mornings, I found that someone had removed the magazine. I even had one placed on the chair in my office with the note "Please stop doing this".

Read Robert Bella on Civil Religion

by **Hakons** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Christ is King. Deus vult.

by **Dogmeat** » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:50 pm

Hakons wrote:Christ is King. Deus vult.

Only if he's wearing a blue jumpsuit. Deus Vault.

by **Dylar** » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:43 am

Dogmeat wrote:
Hakons wrote:Christ is King. Deus vult.

Only if he's wearing a blue jumpsuit. Deus Vault.

And if he has a deadly joybuzzer. Deus Volt

by **Nucego** » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Hakons wrote:Christ is King. Deus vult.

Only if he's wearing a blue jumpsuit. Deus Vault.

That's the most beautiful thing by the most beautiful account I've read all day. Dog dammeat.

by **Kubumba Tribe** » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 pm

My religion by far, in a heartbeat! The US won't last forever, Allah (SWT) will.
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!

by **Kohr** » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:38 pm

I'm not religious, and I don't feel the obligation to support my country if I don't believe in its actions.

by **Hamidiye** » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:14 pm

Well... being an apathetic agnostic this conjures an interresting dilemma: I value the right to question, to think for myself. So if I advocate science and we assume that to be a belief system - then this is quite a bit more important than my beloved Germany (which I value highly nevertheless). Should I have to chose between scientific enlightenment and Germany my fatherland would lose.

by **The Empire of Pretantia** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:57 am

There's no conflict if your nation is a godly one. :Wesmart:

by **The Parkus Empire** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:12 am

Kubumba Tribe wrote:My religion by far, in a heartbeat! The US won't last forever, Allah (SWT) will.
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!

Jesus is Allah

by **Valgora** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:12 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:My religion by far, in a heartbeat! The US won't last forever, Allah (SWT) will.
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!

Jesus is Allah

Jesus was a prophet (in Islam).
God is Allah.

by **Dawlat-i-Aliya** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:14 am

I think nationalism is an especially nasty ideologoy. I’ve always thought that religion can be a better glue for society than nation, which is usually ethnically exclusive and results in one group being made inferior as a minority. Religion, on the other hand, can encompass a diverse number of social groups and is open. However, this might not work with all faiths, some strains of Christianity with their ‘no salvation except through our church’ outlook might be problematic. Maybe, a state should better ground itself in a religious asthetic whilst somehow remaining secular and nondenominational, if that’s even possible? Either way, I’m gonna opt for religion on this one.

by **The Parkus Empire** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:17 am

Valgora wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Jesus is Allah

Jesus was a prophet (in Islam).
God is Allah.

No God but God, and Jesus is God. One nation under Christ!

by **Valgora** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:21 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Valgora wrote:Jesus was a prophet (in Islam).
God is Allah.

No God but God, and Jesus is God. One nation under Christ!

Allah is God.
But if you believe in the Trinity (which, I'm pretty sure Muslims don't), then Jesus would be Allah.
So... to one who believes in the Trinity, you'd be correct; however, to those who don't believe in the Trinity, you'd be incorrect.

by **The Parkus Empire** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:25 am

Valgora wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:No God but God, and Jesus is God. One nation under Christ!

Allah is God.
But if you believe in the Trinity (which, I'm pretty sure Muslims don't), then Jesus would be Allah.
So... to one who believes in the Trinity, you'd be correct; however, to those who don't believe in the Trinity, you'd be incorrect.

And to flat-earthers, a round earth would be incorrect

by **Genivaria** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:26 am

How bout a nationalist state-sponsored religion?

by **The Parkus Empire** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:28 am

Genivaria wrote:How bout a nationalist state-sponsored religion?

State churches used to be very vogue

by **Valgora** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:28 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Valgora wrote:Allah is God.
But if you believe in the Trinity (which, I'm pretty sure Muslims don't), then Jesus would be Allah.
So... to one who believes in the Trinity, you'd be correct; however, to those who don't believe in the Trinity, you'd be incorrect.

And to flat-earthers, a round earth would be incorrect

True, except flat-Earthers are choosing to ignore scientific facts that can be (and have been) proven.
Religion is different.

Religion v. The Nation

Religion or your nation?

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