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US immigration breaking up families

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should illegal families be separated

Yes
122
30%
No
253
62%
Not Sure
30
7%
 
Total votes : 405

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Rio Cana
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US immigration breaking up families

Postby Rio Cana » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:14 pm

On local tv and on US news they have been talking about the outrage being cause by a US immigration rule being put into affect which is separating kids from there adult parents who have entered the US illegally. They say nothing in the law says families have to be separated. So thousands of kids, yes including babies, have been separated from there parents. Many of the kids have been separated thousands of miles from there parents. Chances are some of the kids will be lost in the system. Some news sources have talked about human trafficking about the possibility of human trafficking.

The government spokesman says its the law which some say is a lame excuse. News sources say this action is a ploy to try to force congress to give money for that border wall. So what do you think. It seems that is what is being done. The government wants congress to give the money for the wall and then they will stop separating families.

On our local tv they recommended that people from our island (who are American citizens but look Latin) should carry there passaports if visiting the US. :o They also mentioned because of what is happening that the US cannot criticize other nations for doing the same thing.

In a poll, 67% of US citizens are against this separating families. 23% are for it. Three former first ladies and the current first lady said that they do not support the separating of kids from families.

Chances are this could curtail illegal families from going into the US. It will also cause Russia/China/EU. to gain more friends in Latin America.
Last edited by Rio Cana on Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Petrasylvania
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Postby Petrasylvania » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:17 pm

In addition to being assholes, the Donnie Administration is shooting itself in the foot as the children separated from their families count as unaccompanied minors and thus have to be admitted.
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:34 pm

Good stuff.

Shame for the kids but they can blame the US constitution for that when they grow up, for somehow making them American by being born on a certain side of the border. Any civilised country would deport all of them, although I presume the parents still have a degree of autonomy over what happens with their child (?)
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:38 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:Good stuff.

Separating famalies is good now?
Dang, how morality has fallen.
Trumptonium1 wrote:Any civilised country would deport all of them

A country doing something you don't agree with doesn't make said country uncivilized.
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:39 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Good stuff.

Separating famalies is good now?
Dang, how morality has fallen.


Nah, they should be deported altogether. But the US constitution is uniquely retarded in general.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Any civilised country would deport all of them

A country doing something you don't agree with doesn't make said country uncivilized.


I beg to differ.
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The Remote Islands
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Postby The Remote Islands » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:42 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:Nah, they should be deported altogether. But the US constitution is uniquely retarded in general.


...then why are you defending the policy that needlessly traumatizes migrant children?
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You Gotta Be Kidding
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Postby You Gotta Be Kidding » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:44 pm

I say no, but in the sense that the whole family is illegal and should go.
It is not US policy breaking a family, but the actions of said family.
Of course, you have to properly interpret the 14th Amendment for this to make sense.
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:45 pm

Rio Cana wrote:In a poll, 67% of US citizens are against this separating families. 23% are for it. Three former first ladies and the current first lady said that they do not support the separating of kids from families.


Quinnipiac are Dem-leaning and gave Hillary a 10 point lead in August 2016 when most were tying them and UPI gave it to Trump by 1 point and YouGov to Clinton by 3 points (the final result)

In other news, Gallup now records Trump's approval ratings at 45%, which is the highest in his presidency. This is in full public knowledge of the expanding 'family separation outrage'
https://news.gallup.com/poll/203207/tru ... eekly.aspx

So obviously either people don't care about it, or support it when the question is asked differently (i.e. do you approve of Donald Trump's immigration policy). Also Republicans majority support it and that's his only duty.
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:46 pm

The Remote Islands wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Nah, they should be deported altogether. But the US constitution is uniquely retarded in general.


...then why are you defending the policy that needlessly traumatizes migrant children?


Because the other option (letting everyone stay) is shittier.

I support letting parents take their children with them, if that isn't the default position already. Which, given US bureaucracy, it probably isn't.
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Firaxin
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Postby Firaxin » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:49 pm

It was their parents’ choice illegally enter the nation, and now they must deal with consequences. Those born in America are American and should be given the choice to stay if they wish or go with their family.
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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:50 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
The Remote Islands wrote:
...then why are you defending the policy that needlessly traumatizes migrant children?


Because the other option (letting everyone stay) is shittier.

I support letting parents take their children with them, if that isn't the default position already. Which, given US bureaucracy, it probably isn't.

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The Remote Islands
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Postby The Remote Islands » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:50 pm

It wouldn't be 'shittier' in the sense that it would traumatize them. Because it wouldn't traumatize them. Hell, it isn't even a binary option, either!

There's also 1,500 of the kids straight up missing, last I heard. I wouldn't jump to claims of murder, but the fact that 1,500 fell through the cracks to begin with is still really, really, fucked up.
Last edited by The Remote Islands on Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:53 pm

It's a moral shame. If we're going to detain asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, they must be detained as family units.

Sessions tried to justify the policy by citing a verse in Romans that says to obey the law. He subsequently got blasted by pretty much every American religious authority, including by leadership in his own denomination.

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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:53 pm

NERVUN wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
Because the other option (letting everyone stay) is shittier.

I support letting parents take their children with them, if that isn't the default position already. Which, given US bureaucracy, it probably isn't.

... Are you aware of what the hell is happening? I mean, really?


spare me the sanctimonious posts and leave your democrat bubble
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:56 pm

The Remote Islands wrote:It wouldn't be 'shittier' in the sense that it would traumatize them. Because it wouldn't traumatize them.


"will somebody please think of the children?"

it's only traumatising if you deliberately make it so

Hakons wrote:It's a moral shame. If we're going to detain asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, they must be detained as family units.


so you're advocating ignoring the constitution by deporting american citizens?

although i guess it depends whether we're talking about dhs separating kids at the border or ice separating kids from their parents during the deportation process
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Farnhamia wrote:Not actionable. Mao has not suffered a damnatio memoriae and his name is not a pejorative.
Pro: Things and people I like
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https://www.bolsonaro.com.br/
bay area soyboys finding burning people to death 'enjoyable', but are 'uncomfortable' with white man criticising obama in a fictional video game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg1CnqQvRxU

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Eternal Lotharia
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Postby Eternal Lotharia » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:56 pm

Separating this into 2 versions, both my opinion. Don't take offense to either or take it as fact, I just want to show my irrational, and frankly emotion-driven opinion, then my logical one.

Personal opinion with emotion not filtered out:

Monstrous, unchristian conservative administration that is the reason christianity is shitty today, though this does not side with or side against liberalism. This is unchristian and cruel, not to mention inhumane, goes against human rights, and is indefensible by any true Christian. It is Satanic. Disgusting, and should be illegal.


My rational and reasonable opinion:

This is unchristian in my personal opinion, and further shows the decline of christianity. It goes against human rights, should be illegal, and to me personally seems satanic. Even disregarding my opinion about immigration, I would oppose that even if I was anti-immigration. It's heartless.


Yeah the opinions are very similar, and I further recognize my empathy and hatred towards such inhumane, cruel, tyrannical, etc. actions is making me incapable at the moment of making an argument based on statistics and focusing on that in my post. This was posted to show my opinion anyway based on my staunch morals, not to force my opinion on immigration.

EDIT: Clarification.
Last edited by Eternal Lotharia on Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:57 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:so you're advocating ignoring the constitution by deporting american citizens?

TIL throwing illegal immigrants in American Federal prisons is deporting them. Thanks for informing me! Sometimes I have trouble keeping up with these 'alternate facts'.
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The Remote Islands
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Postby The Remote Islands » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:57 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
NERVUN wrote:... Are you aware of what the hell is happening? I mean, really?


spare me the sanctimonious posts and leave your democrat bubble


bubble


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Last edited by Farnhamia on Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:59 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
The Remote Islands wrote:It wouldn't be 'shittier' in the sense that it would traumatize them. Because it wouldn't traumatize them.


"will somebody please think of the children?"

it's only traumatising if you deliberately make it so

Hakons wrote:It's a moral shame. If we're going to detain asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, they must be detained as family units.


so you're advocating ignoring the constitution by deporting american citizens?

although i guess it depends whether we're talking about dhs separating kids at the border or ice separating kids from their parents during the deportation process


Um... no?

We're talking about asylum seekers, though I would prefer we not deport parents and children, for the same Christian reasons.
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:03 pm

Hakons wrote:We're talking about asylum seekers,


seeking asylum from what?

Hakons wrote: though I would prefer we not deport parents and children, for the same Christian reasons.


the US is a secular country
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Pro: Things and people I like
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bay area soyboys finding burning people to death 'enjoyable', but are 'uncomfortable' with white man criticising obama in a fictional video game
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:08 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Hakons wrote:We're talking about asylum seekers,


seeking asylum from what?

Hakons wrote: though I would prefer we not deport parents and children, for the same Christian reasons.


the US is a secular country


Asylum from cartel violence, usually. It could also be economic, or they merely want to enter the city on the hill and enjoy the fruit of liberty and a free government. Our current policy unfortunately invalidates the last reason.

I'll rap all my arguments in secular reasoning, but the base for most of my positions starts with Christianity. My cause is theocracy. ;)
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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:10 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
NERVUN wrote:... Are you aware of what the hell is happening? I mean, really?


spare me the sanctimonious posts and leave your democrat bubble

So you in fact DON'T actually know what's going on?

Not surprised.

And I live in a democrat bubble?

Dude...

Yeah.

Well, I suppose the LDP DOES have democrat in its name... kinda. But I can't imagine anyone ignorant enough to claim that Japan is in anyway shape or form a place that is within a US Democrat bubble.
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:12 pm

NERVUN wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
spare me the sanctimonious posts and leave your democrat bubble

So you in fact DON'T actually know what's going on?


no sorry i don't have equal access to nippon tv to be aware of the intricacies
Farnhamia wrote:Not actionable. Mao has not suffered a damnatio memoriae and his name is not a pejorative.
Pro: Things and people I like
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https://www.bolsonaro.com.br/
bay area soyboys finding burning people to death 'enjoyable', but are 'uncomfortable' with white man criticising obama in a fictional video game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg1CnqQvRxU

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:no sorry i don't have equal access to nippon tv to be aware of the intricacies

... what?
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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:16 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:no sorry i don't have equal access to nippon tv to be aware of the intricacies

... what?


i have no idea nervun is talking about himself again and bringing japan into every conversation, like talking to a german. somehow conflating the party with the bubble
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Farnhamia wrote:Not actionable. Mao has not suffered a damnatio memoriae and his name is not a pejorative.
Pro: Things and people I like
Anti: Things and people I dislike
https://www.bolsonaro.com.br/
bay area soyboys finding burning people to death 'enjoyable', but are 'uncomfortable' with white man criticising obama in a fictional video game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg1CnqQvRxU

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