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Balder, Europeia, The LKE to Launch UIAF 4.0

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Cormactopia Prime
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Balder, Europeia, The LKE to Launch UIAF 4.0

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:40 pm

I received some information recently that Balder, Europeia, and The Land of Kings and Emperors (The LKE) are about to launch a joint military called the Independent Joint Command Coalition (IJCC). To say that it is modeled after the former United Imperial Armed Forces (UIAF) comprised of Albion, The LKE, and The New Inquisition (TNI) would be an understatement; the treaty which would bring it into effect is literally a reproduction of the UIAF's Third Treaty of Arms Convergence, with only minimal terminology changes. The IJCC will be hosted in Europeia, just as the UIAF was hosted in TNI, and will see each region's military forces united under a single central command, though each region will retain the right and the ability to conduct its own operations independently of the other two, as was also the case under the UIAF. One feature unique to the IJCC, which did not exist under the UIAF without ratification of a brand new treaty, is a process for admitting additional regions to the IJCC. So it does appear that Balder, Europeia, and The LKE are looking to eventually expand this joint military force to include other regions. Which regions they hope to eventually include is an open question and I won't speculate.

The treaty which would bring the IJCC into effect can be found here.

A mark-up comparison of the IJCC treaty with the Third Treaty of Arms Convergence can be found here.

I must confess that I'm not sure why this information was passed along to me. While it's certainly interesting, and could have a significant impact on gameplay, I don't see much here to criticize -- which is usually why information is given to me, to expose and criticize. Sure, Balder and The LKE recently supported Funkadelia, Lamb Stone, and Evil Wolf in Lazarus, and that does raise some questions about whether we can expect to see Europeia involved in controversial operations like these in the future, given that Europeia has often avoided involvement in such controversies. And yes, it does raise an eyebrow that Balder is going to be involved in a joint military with two user-created regions, hosted not in Balder but in a user-created region. But Balder's closeness with user-created regions is both well known and well criticized. Other than that, there is the criticism that this looks very much like UIAF imperialism reborn and rebranded, but that's certainly not a shock given the regions involved. Aside from these issues, I just don't see much here to criticize, and I hope the IJCC will bring us some much needed gameplay activity that is actually interesting.

That said, of course I can always be counted on to do the expose part of "expose and criticize." :P So here it is, folks. Discuss!

EDIT: Looks like there's some controversy here after all. See this post.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Canton Empire
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Postby Canton Empire » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:44 pm

It’s gonna fail. I really don’t see a way in which this succeeds in any way that doing operations together wouldn’t.
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Postby Carolus Rex Francae » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:49 pm

A new era for imperialism, then? I was under the impression they were a dying breed.
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Postby Pencil Sharpeners 2 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:52 pm

IJCC Sounds like some sort of IRL government regulatory body or something. Should have called it InJoCoCo.
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Postby Ambrella » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:55 pm

Given that it's currently before the Europeian Senate, it's less "exposing" and more "noticing."

I think this treaty will be a big step forward for military gameplay amongst Independent regions, and I look forward to what Europeia, the LKE, and Balder are able to accomplish under the IJCC.
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Postby Wabbitslayah » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:55 pm

Canton Empire wrote:It’s gonna fail. I really don’t see a way in which this succeeds in any way that doing operations together wouldn’t.

Please clarify, because I do not understand your point.
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Postby Solorni » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:57 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:I received some information recently that Balder, Europeia, and The Land of Kings and Emperors (The LKE) are about to launch a joint military called the Independent Joint Command Coalition (IJCC).

This information has been public in Balder & Europeia since it was introduced into our legislatures on May 29th. I'd also like to note that Balder has a long history of proposed and actual joint ventures with our allies. WALL & ISRA are the two actualized ones but there have been a few other proposed ideas. I do like it when ambitious things are actualized.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:58 pm

Ambrella wrote:Given that it's currently before the Europeian Senate, it's less "exposing" and more "noticing."
Solorni wrote:This information has been public in Balder & Europeia since it was introduced into our legislatures on May 29th.

Yeah, it was brought to my attention after I published this that it is currently before both Balder's and Europeia's legislatures, so the information is apparently quasi-public. I say quasi-public because both regions' legislatures do require masking, which is probably why this was thought to be secret.

Regardless of whether it was secret or public, it's an interesting development for people to comment on in the Gameplay forum. Good luck with it.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Solorni » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:03 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Ambrella wrote:Given that it's currently before the Europeian Senate, it's less "exposing" and more "noticing."
Solorni wrote:This information has been public in Balder & Europeia since it was introduced into our legislatures on May 29th.

I say quasi-public because both regions' legislatures do require masking, which is probably why this was thought to be secret.

When there are hundreds of citizens in Europeia, Balder and LKE combined... it can't really be thought of as a secret :P
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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:07 pm

Solorni wrote:When there are hundreds of citizens in Europeia, Balder and LKE combined... it can't really be thought of as a secret :P

A valid point. When the information was given to me, the person clearly believed it was secret. I didn't check, because as I've noted, I don't much care about this. It's interesting, but I don't find it nearly as exciting or controversial as some apparently believe it to be. I just posted it because I said I would.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ambrella » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:09 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Solorni wrote:When there are hundreds of citizens in Europeia, Balder and LKE combined... it can't really be thought of as a secret :P

A valid point. When it was given to me, the person clearly believed it was secret. I didn't check, because as I've noted, I don't much care about this. It's interesting, but I don't find it nearly as exciting or controversial as some apparently believe it to be. I just posted it because I said I would.

I feel like this thread would have been more fun if that person had been willing to muddy their own hands... but perhaps they will yet appear in the comments.
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Postby Salvarity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:13 pm

Solorni wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:I received some information recently that Balder, Europeia, and The Land of Kings and Emperors (The LKE) are about to launch a joint military called the Independent Joint Command Coalition (IJCC).

This information has been public in Balder & Europeia since it was introduced into our legislatures on May 29th. I'd also like to note that Balder has a long history of proposed and actual joint ventures with our allies. WALL & ISRA are the two actualized ones but there have been a few other proposed ideas. I do like it when ambitious things are actualized.


It has not gone before the Imperial Diet yet, but it wasn't exactly a secret in the LKE either.

Reminds me of when someone 'leaked' Onder's abdication. Just jumping over the official announcement for some attention.
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Postby Drop Your Pants » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:17 pm

Ambrella wrote:I feel like this thread would have been more fun if that person had been willing to muddy their own hands... but perhaps they will yet appear in the comments.

It's ok to be honest Sopo, we won't think any worse of you :P
Last edited by Drop Your Pants on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ambrella » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:20 pm

Drop Your Pants wrote:
Ambrella wrote:I feel like this thread would have been more fun if that person had been willing to muddy their own hands... but perhaps they will yet appear in the comments.

It's ok to be honest Sopo, we won't think any worse of you :P

Would that even be possible? :hug:
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:20 pm

More interesting than the treaty itself is what HEM (as President of Europeia at the time) had to say about it. Again, this information is quasi-public as it's posted in Europeia's legislature, but I will go ahead and post it here since not everyone can see it.

Speaker Writinglegend,

Early on in this term, I discussed with my team an issue I perceived with our foreign policy: increasingly, it was not of our own choosing. While Europeia is respected abroad, and our statements are taken seriously by most major players, our region has done little to lead the world. As one of the most active regions in the game, it is odd that we are often perceived as lessers to many regions that spend more time inactive than not.

At the same time, we have achieved a great deal of clout through the WALL and other agreements with like-minded regions. However, our military seemed to always stand on the precipice of greatness. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. If we had room to move and to shake, military affairs seemed to be a good place to do it.

Suddenly, the answer became obvious. Take the principle of coordination behind the WALL and apply it to our military strategy.

To that end, I approached two of our oldest allies: Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors about creating a Joint Command system between our three regions. Together, we could create a military stronger and more nimble than perhaps any other in history. I am delighted that they agreed.

Our enemies abroad are assaulting Independence by embracing fringe ideologies like Francoism, and to be quite frank, it is time they are told in no uncertain terms to cut it out. Europeia needs to be respected for our words, but also for our might. Together with our friends abroad, we will be able to work together to create a Nationstates that is safe for Independence.

To be clear for the casual reader: Neither Europeia nor her allies will give up their military sovereignty in this treaty. Regions will hold veto power for military missions and have full right to withdraw their militaries from certain missions. But when you have friends that you agree with 90% of the time, I suspect the occasions we need to use those tools will be rare.

Interesting to see Europeia essentially declare the NPO its enemy. I wonder which other Feeders and Sinkers are classified as Europeia's enemies. I also wonder if Balder shares Europeia's goal of using this organization to combat the NPO, given that the NPO is one of Balder's allies.
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:Interesting to see Europeia essentially declare the NPO its enemy.


Given their stance on strong UCR's and their role in politics, and given that such an ideology seems to be on the spread, complete with empty claims of "subversion" and breaking out "userite" as a slur whenever possible, now being utilized by several different feeders, is it really a shock to see a backlash begin to form?

First-class regions being treated like second-class citizens merely for their regionality is going to drive some malcontent, I'd say. Some folks have gotten away with some strong rhetoric against wide swaths of players, including their "allies," for quite some time now. Perhaps people are beginning to grow tired of such. That'd be my guess.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Gibraltarica » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:35 pm

Ma, get the gun! Them damn userites are at it again!
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:Interesting to see Europeia essentially declare the NPO its enemy.


Given their stance on strong UCR's and their role in politics, and given that such an ideology seems to be on the spread, complete with empty claims of "subversion" and breaking out "userite" as a slur whenever possible, now being utilized by several different feeders, is it really a shock to see a backlash begin to form?

It's not a shock to see userites being userites, no. It is a shock to see Europeia potentially declaring two of its allies enemies, and to see Balder cooperating.
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:37 pm

After so many years, it’s great to see “imperialism Independence” so starkly. We have regions calling themselves Independent while also signing their military over to a foreign central command. The end of the facade of Independence, finally. ^_^ It will be interesting to see how many backflips the Independence Manifesto-thumpers will need to make to justify a blatant anti-Independent centralized military.

Also, it was common practice a while ago for Europeia to insert clauses into their treaties banning the signatories from signing over their military forces like this. Wonder if that’s still the case...
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:41 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Also, it was common practice a while ago for Europeia to insert clauses into their treaties banning the signatories from signing over their military forces like this. Wonder if that’s still the case...

Europeia only had that clause to prevent its allies' membership in the Founderless Regions Alliance (FRA). In the cases of Sovereign Confederation, UIAF, and the Imperial Sovereign Realms Army (ISRA), Europeia interpreted all three of those as not being prohibited by their treaties.
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:43 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Also, it was common practice a while ago for Europeia to insert clauses into their treaties banning the signatories from signing over their military forces like this. Wonder if that’s still the case...

Europeia only had that clause to prevent its allies' membership in the Founderless Regions Alliance (FRA). In the cases of Sovereign Confederation, UIAF, and the Imperial Sovereign Realms Army (ISRA), Europeia interpreted all three of those as not being prohibited by their treaties.

Oh, well, of course. It’s okay when imperialists Independents do it.

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Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:44 pm

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Postby Canton Empire » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:46 pm

Wabbitslayah wrote:
Canton Empire wrote:It’s gonna fail. I really don’t see a way in which this succeeds in any way that doing operations together wouldn’t.

Please clarify, because I do not understand your point.

I’m trying to say:

What does this do that increased cooperation doesn’t?
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:51 pm

Canton Empire wrote:
Wabbitslayah wrote:Please clarify, because I do not understand your point.

I’m trying to say:

What does this do that increased cooperation doesn’t?

It allows them better centralized coordination so they can more effectively attack other Feeders and Sinkers as they did Lazarus.

It's beyond time for the Feeders and Sinkers that have relations with them to cut relations with these three regions, and to treat Balder as a user-created region. That's the choice Balder has made by joining this organization and siding with Europeia in its crusade against certain Feeders and Sinkers.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Salvarity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:01 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Canton Empire wrote:I’m trying to say:

What does this do that increased cooperation doesn’t?

It allows them better centralized coordination so they can more effectively attack other Feeders and Sinkers as they did Lazarus.


Way to create controversy where none exists.

It's beyond time for the Feeders and Sinkers that have relations with them to cut relations with these three regions,


Our GCR allies are more than capable of making foreign political decisions without your input.

and to treat Balder as a user-created region


What does this even entail. If you're using UCR as a slur here, you are part of what is wrong with NS currently.

That's the choice Balder has made by joining this organization and siding with Europeia in its crusade against certain Feeders and Sinkers.


Calm down Pope Nope, you're the only one claiming a crusade is coming. The LKE has the deepest respect for our friends and allies in the GCRs and would never act in hostility against them.




You have made it clear multiple times that you think current GP is 'boring'. Stop trying to create controversy where none exists, we are not here for your amusement.
Last edited by Salvarity on Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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