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MAGAThread XIII: The Summit of Putin

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Uiiop
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:39 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Uiiop wrote:1. That doesn't necessarily mean it could be or that even if it isn't that the behaviors would be exactly like the natives.

I have no idea what you're going on here tbh. Sure the US could be isolationist, pretty much all nations could be, but most, especially those with power, aren't.
2. Even before there was a untied states huh?

You realise that most of the colonization of the landmass that makes up the US happened after independence right?

It's just seems odd to use the natives as an example. I'm not a fan of Foreign Policy either but it's going to take a lot more effort for us to recreate that type of situation. But now i sense you were being intentionally hyperbolic to prove a point.
However, there's also the fact that most(As far as i know) "Big Government" supporters want to cut off the military and put that money into healthcare and education. Kind of odd correlation to imperialistic actions when one puts it that way.
Last edited by Uiiop on Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Sick Jumps
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sick Jumps » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:52 pm

New haven america wrote:
Valgora wrote:
The government could also decrease the amount we spend on the military.

*Cue the people complaining on how that's a bad idea and that we should actually be giving them more money*

Americans across party lines approve of Social Security and Medicare. Americans also generally support a strong national defense, and think infrastructure should be in good repair.

The problem is, we don't like paying for all of this stuff, and get pissed off when politicians try to do things like raise the gas tax to pay for our roads.
Last edited by Sick Jumps on Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Triassica
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Triassica » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:05 pm

Nonetheless, the reason why I believe a rogue constitutional convention would lead to Civil War is precisely because of how divided we are and how insane the modern GOP has become. I can't see Conservative Republicans and Liberal democrats working together in good faith to amend the Constitution. Thus, if you want to change the constitution into your own image, especially if your image is right wing insanity, and you aren't willing to work with over half the country to find a compromise, then you've already decided you want war.
Last edited by Triassica on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:06 pm

Triassica wrote:Nonetheless, the reason why I believe a rogue constituonal convention would lead to Civil War is precisely because of how divided we are and how insane the modern GOP has become. I can't see Conservative Republicans and Liberal democrats working together in good faith to amend the Constituon. Thus, if you want to change the constitution into your own image, especially if your image is right wing insanity, and you aren't willing to work with over half the country to find a compromise, then you've already decided you want war.


Don't act like you aren't any less insane lol

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:08 pm

A new constitutional convention would certainly be an ugly prospect in this day and age, maybe not civil war worthy, but certainly ugly nonetheless.
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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:09 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:A new constitutional convention would certainly be an ugly prospect in this day and age, maybe not civil war worthy, but certainly ugly nonetheless.


There would certainly be violence.

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New haven america
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:13 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:A new constitutional convention would certainly be an ugly prospect in this day and age, maybe not civil war worthy, but certainly ugly nonetheless.


There would certainly be violence.

Probably not to a scale that would change anything.

People would probably just bend over and take it, honestly.
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Triassica
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Triassica » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:19 pm

New haven america wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
There would certainly be violence.

Probably not to a scale that would change anything.

People would probably just bend over and take it, honestly.

You mean liberals and progressives would simply shrug and go "Well, I guess we're fascist now"?

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Valgora
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Triassica wrote:
New haven america wrote:Probably not to a scale that would change anything.

People would probably just bend over and take it, honestly.

You mean liberals and progressives would simply shrug and go "Well, I guess we're fascist now"?


Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.
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New haven america
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:22 pm

Triassica wrote:
New haven america wrote:Probably not to a scale that would change anything.

People would probably just bend over and take it, honestly.

You mean liberals and progressives would simply shrug and go "Well, I guess we're fascist now"?

Yes.

And right wingers would be cheering and drinking champagne.
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Triassica
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Triassica » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:24 pm

Valgora wrote:
Triassica wrote:You mean liberals and progressives would simply shrug and go "Well, I guess we're fascist now"?


Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.

You doubt with the sort of insanity the Koch brothers, Trump Administration and Republican party want to push?

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New haven america
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:26 pm

Triassica wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.

You doubt with the sort of insanity the Koch brothers, Trump Administration and Republican party want to push?

That's not fascism, that'd be corporate oligarchy/autocracy (Depending on how it operates).

Which, funnily enough, is basically what the US is currently dealing with.
Last edited by New haven america on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Proctopeo
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Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Proctopeo » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:26 pm

Triassica wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.

You doubt with the sort of insanity the Koch brothers, Trump Administration and Republican party want to push?

Funny thing, a poorly-constructed tinfoil hat actually amplifies certain types of electromagnetic waves, including microwaves.
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Valgora
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:27 pm

Triassica wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.

You doubt with the sort of insanity the Koch brothers, Trump Administration and Republican party want to push?

The Republican Party ain't fascist.
Trump wouldn't have been elected if he was a legitimate fascist and if he did actually attempt to turn the US fascist, he wouldn't be in power.

The Koch brothers are out for themselves, and I don't think fascism would be that beneficial to them.
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Uiiop
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:29 pm

Valgora wrote:
Triassica wrote:You doubt with the sort of insanity the Koch brothers, Trump Administration and Republican party want to push?

The Republican Party ain't fascist.
Trump wouldn't have been elected if he was a legitimate fascist and if he did actually attempt to turn the US fascist, he wouldn't be in power.

The Koch brothers are out for themselves, and I don't think fascism would be that beneficial to them.

I get the nit-picking but i'm not sure it defeats the over point Tri is making.

Not fascist? sure but that doesn't it wouldn't be bad.

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Sick Jumps
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sick Jumps » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:31 pm


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New haven america
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Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:31 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Valgora wrote:The Republican Party ain't fascist.
Trump wouldn't have been elected if he was a legitimate fascist and if he did actually attempt to turn the US fascist, he wouldn't be in power.

The Koch brothers are out for themselves, and I don't think fascism would be that beneficial to them.

I get the nit-picking but i'm not sure it defeats the over point Tri is making.

Not fascist? sure but that doesn't it wouldn't be bad.

It already is bad, and no one's really doing anything about it.

What makes you think people would react to Tri's hypothetical?
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Uiiop
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:33 pm

New haven america wrote:
Uiiop wrote:I get the nit-picking but i'm not sure it defeats the over point Tri is making.

Not fascist? sure but that doesn't it wouldn't be bad.

It already is bad, and no one's really doing anything about it.

What makes you think people would react to Tri's hypothetical?

I get the cyncism but people will at least try.
It might not be effective and they'll give up quickly but that's different from what you're saying.

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Triassica
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Founded: Jun 27, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Triassica » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:35 pm

New haven america wrote:
Triassica wrote:You doubt with the sort of insanity the Koch brothers, Trump Administration and Republican party want to push?

That's not fascism, that'd be corporate oligarchy/autocracy (Depending on how it operates).

Which, funnily enough, is basically what the US is currently dealing with.

Inverted totalitarianism. Just add theocracy and the Right wing wet dream will be complete.

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New haven america
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:41 pm

Uiiop wrote:
New haven america wrote:It already is bad, and no one's really doing anything about it.

What makes you think people would react to Tri's hypothetical?

I get the cyncism but people will at least try.
It might not be effective and they'll give up quickly but that's different from what you're saying.

I don't considering going out to protest for a few days and then deciding that you have to get back to work and let everything continue to fester and question why things are getting so bad as "Trying."

Which will happen, just as it has the for the past decade or 2.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Valgora wrote:
Triassica wrote:You mean liberals and progressives would simply shrug and go "Well, I guess we're fascist now"?


Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.

To be somewhat fair, there’d definitely be plenty of right wingers at a potential constitutional trying their hardest to curtail as many liberties and freedoms as possible to make the United States a more authoritarian regime.
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Triassica
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Founded: Jun 27, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Triassica » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:53 pm

New haven america wrote:
Uiiop wrote:I get the cyncism but people will at least try.
It might not be effective and they'll give up quickly but that's different from what you're saying.

I don't considering going out to protest for a few days and then deciding that you have to get back to work and let everything continue to fester and question why things are getting so bad as "Trying."

Which will happen, just as it has the for the past decade or 2.

Yeah, the left doesn't know how to fight back against the right. If they think that the Women's March last year is a legitimate form of protest, the reaction to Trump firing Mueller will be the greatest disappointment in the history of civil disobedience...

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:58 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Such a convention would not make the United States fascist.

To be somewhat fair, there’d definitely be plenty of right wingers at a potential constitutional trying their hardest to curtail as many liberties and freedoms as possible to make the United States a more authoritarian regime.


To be even more fair there'd probably be just as many left wingers doing the exact same thing.
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New haven america
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Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:04 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:To be somewhat fair, there’d definitely be plenty of right wingers at a potential constitutional trying their hardest to curtail as many liberties and freedoms as possible to make the United States a more authoritarian regime.


To be even more fair there'd probably be just as many left wingers doing the exact same thing.

Here we go.

I love this "Both sides are the same idea." It's totally true*, except for: How we should handle the economy, women's rights, how to deal with environmental impacts, regulation of big business, healthcare, welfare, immigration, socioeconomic inequality, foreign relations, basic human rights, I could go on and on and on and on and on...

*I feel like I need to point out that this is sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell
Last edited by New haven america on Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sovaal
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:05 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Triassica wrote:Nonetheless, the reason why I believe a rogue constituonal convention would lead to Civil War is precisely because of how divided we are and how insane the modern GOP has become. I can't see Conservative Republicans and Liberal democrats working together in good faith to amend the Constituon. Thus, if you want to change the constitution into your own image, especially if your image is right wing insanity, and you aren't willing to work with over half the country to find a compromise, then you've already decided you want war.


Don't act like you aren't any less insane lol

I wonder, to the insane are the sane as insane as the insane are to the sane?
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

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