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Do left-wingers have a hatred of the rich?

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Petrolheadia
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Do left-wingers have a hatred of the rich?

Postby Petrolheadia » Tue May 29, 2018 10:28 pm

I've recently been struck by a thought that a large portion of the left has an often irrational hatred of the wealthy.

The hatred usually manifests labelling the richest as some abstract "1%" to distance them from the rest of the society, which isn't bad in itself, but such a division does raise one hell of a call to dehumanize the wealthy.

An example is the infamous "Will the 1% kill all of us off" from this very site, which basically denied the wealthy's capability to feel human empathy, or a post I saw on Reddit, where the author postulated replacing racism with hating the richest 1%.

Also, it may be just Godwin talking, but when another "how much does the richest few own" study is made, I sometimes feel like there are some parallels to Nazis emphasizing how much of the finance industry is Jew-controlled - trying to fuel hatred to a group by showing how much more it has then you.

In fact, some left-wingers (like Pope Joan from this very site) often say they can't judge the rich in an equal way, showing that even if they don't hate a rich, they certainly are biased.

However, I don't think it applies to the whole left - the lighter sections of it are more-or-less immune from such hatred. It's the more hardline left (though not necessarily non-capitalists) that indulges in it.

And what are your thoughts on the matter?
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Tue May 29, 2018 10:32 pm

Many do, however an equally amount of many "just" wants to tax the hell out of them. When asked about the rich leaving the country or stop working due to that, their response typically hits a more aggressive tone of asset forfeiture or wealth taxes, capital controls, anything that will force the top 1% to deliver its """fair""" share.
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Postby Chan Island » Tue May 29, 2018 10:32 pm

It's a point of contention within left wing parties. Tony Blair for example famously rebuffed what he called "The Politics of Envy", while prime minister, just as a counter point.

However, ultimately the thing is that many left-wingers seek equality, and see wealth as the biggest cause of inequality out there. Therefore, rich people (bonus points if they are rich people who actively look after their own best interests, like most humans do) are seen as the enemy by a certain segment of the left, yes. Because, in many ways, they are enemies to their (what some might call) Communist vision.

EDIT: One other thing to point out is that increasingly, the very rich have actually started to support the left more. In America it seems to be because they see the democrats as being more rational and less of a cult, while in Britain it's because the right is a disorganised mess that seems to be actively and enthusiastically gunning to make the country poorer.
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Postby Elvectica » Tue May 29, 2018 10:34 pm

I'd sort of agree, on one hand that brings up an interesting comparison between Nazis and far leftists, but on the other, I myself am more left leaning, but I don't view a majority of left-wingers hating the rich, it's more of hating the system, or hating the imbeciles that happen to be rich. That's just my two cents, I could be wrong
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Postby Cedoria » Tue May 29, 2018 11:15 pm

I don't know many who hate individual people who are rich. Most hate the system that permits so few to be so rich when so many are so poor. If they talk about individual people who happen to be rich in that system, it's usually to make a point, rather than hatred.

And OP"s attempt to link it to anti-semitism is pretty stupid. For one thing, the 1% is actually a figure with statistical validity. Jews controlling Communism and Capitalism was not something that ever did.
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Postby Tebuh » Tue May 29, 2018 11:23 pm

Not the person, but the system that enables people to earn millions without doing nothing, but allows others to suffer in misery.

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Postby Keliall » Tue May 29, 2018 11:29 pm

We all know they do, which I find is stupid, why are the rich, rich? It’s because they’ve done something that’s revolutionised the world and they deserve the fortune brought to them. The moment you bring communistic ideals to the world innovation stops, why do something great when you could just do a worse job that pays the same? This is one of the reasons I’m right-wing.

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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue May 29, 2018 11:30 pm

It's sort of the Crux of like 80% their ideologies, so yeah.
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Postby USS Monitor » Tue May 29, 2018 11:44 pm

Keliall wrote:We all know they do, which I find is stupid, why are the rich, rich? It’s because they’ve done something that’s revolutionised the world and they deserve the fortune brought to them. The moment you bring communistic ideals to the world innovation stops, why do something great when you could just do a worse job that pays the same? This is one of the reasons I’m right-wing.


Plenty of rich people never did anything except being born into the right family.

People's choices and personal accomplishments play a role in determining wealth, but they aren't the only thing.
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Postby Gospel Power » Tue May 29, 2018 11:46 pm

Kind of

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Postby Petrolheadia » Tue May 29, 2018 11:54 pm

Elvectica wrote:I'd sort of agree, on one hand that brings up an interesting comparison between Nazis and far leftists, but on the other, I myself am more left leaning, but I don't view a majority of left-wingers hating the rich, it's more of hating the system, or hating the imbeciles that happen to be rich. That's just my two cents, I could be wrong

It's often like homophobia among religious people - 'hate the sin" becomes "hate the sinner".

USS Monitor wrote:
Keliall wrote:We all know they do, which I find is stupid, why are the rich, rich? It’s because they’ve done something that’s revolutionised the world and they deserve the fortune brought to them. The moment you bring communistic ideals to the world innovation stops, why do something great when you could just do a worse job that pays the same? This is one of the reasons I’m right-wing.


Plenty of rich people never did anything except being born into the right family.

People's choices and personal accomplishments play a role in determining wealth, but they aren't the only thing.

The average millionaire becomes one at nearly 60.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed May 30, 2018 12:06 am

Does the laissez-faire right - which supports the continuation and intensification of extreme concentrations of wealth, property and ownership - hate the working class because their policies consciously deny them real equal opportunity in life? The self-made man is a rare exception of someone who drags themselves up against stacked odds, it is much easier for someone who comes from wealth to have similar or greater economic success just by coasting and not making absolutely terrible decisions.
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Postby Garden at 6th Mile Road » Wed May 30, 2018 12:11 am

To put it bluntly, many of the left-wingers don't exactly hate the rich just because. They seem to hate the rich people who are dicks towards everyone, flaunt/flex their money in front of everyone else, or spoilt.

Case in point.

Disclaimer that I am not saying that all the rich act that way; it's just this very vocal minority that flaunts the $x millions that they have, who in turn ticked off the "commoners" and "peasants" (their words, not mine).

To be honest, just finding out sources about this ticked me off. It's their attitude, that's all.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Wed May 30, 2018 12:13 am

I mean I do but that’s not ideological
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed May 30, 2018 12:28 am

Garden at 6th Mile Road wrote:To put it bluntly, many of the left-wingers don't exactly hate the rich just because. They seem to hate the rich people who are dicks towards everyone, flaunt/flex their money in front of everyone else, or spoilt.

Case in point.

Disclaimer that I am not saying that all the rich act that way; it's just this very vocal minority that flaunts the $x millions that they have, who in turn ticked off the "commoners" and "peasants" (their words, not mine).

To be honest, just finding out sources about this ticked me off. It's their attitude, that's all.

There are also many poor douchebags.

There are douches in every group. You can't say a group is bad because it has them.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Does the laissez-faire right - which supports the continuation and intensification of extreme concentrations of wealth, property and ownership - hate the working class because their policies consciously deny them real equal opportunity in life? The self-made man is a rare exception of someone who drags themselves up against stacked odds, it is much easier for someone who comes from wealth to have similar or greater economic success just by coasting and not making absolutely terrible decisions.

There is a difference between noticing some support policies that help their sort, but hurt others, and actively hating those people and denying their empathy.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed May 30, 2018 12:37 am

Petrolheadia wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Does the laissez-faire right - which supports the continuation and intensification of extreme concentrations of wealth, property and ownership - hate the working class because their policies consciously deny them real equal opportunity in life? The self-made man is a rare exception of someone who drags themselves up against stacked odds, it is much easier for someone who comes from wealth to have similar or greater economic success just by coasting and not making absolutely terrible decisions.

There is a difference between noticing some support policies that help their sort, but hurt others, and actively hating those people and denying their empathy.


Many left-wingers don't. Some right-wingers do hate the poor and rail against their supposed failings in both morality and economic decision-making. This can be based both in interest - nothing needs doing to "fix" it if you can convincingly blame the individual - and out of ignorance - because they can't fully understand the situation of a person who hasn't had everything handed to them on a plate or who hasn't had the particular combination of fortunate circumstance that made it possible for them to use their skills to ascend to the top.

You're creating a false dichotomy. Some right-wingers hate the poor. Some left-wingers hate the rich. Neither is an essential quality.
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Postby Vassenor » Wed May 30, 2018 12:44 am

I find it telling that people need to frame a desire to end systemic inequality as "you just hate the rich".
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Postby Hirota » Wed May 30, 2018 12:50 am

I don't begrudge people being successful and having the wealth to back that up. I don't even begrudge people being able to pass their wealth onto their offspring. But I do think the one-percenters have an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of capital and it could do with a partial redistribution.
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed May 30, 2018 12:52 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:There is a difference between noticing some support policies that help their sort, but hurt others, and actively hating those people and denying their empathy.


Many left-wingers don't. Some right-wingers do hate the poor and rail against their supposed failings in both morality and economic decision-making. This can be based both in interest - nothing needs doing to "fix" it if you can convincingly blame the individual - and out of ignorance - because they can't fully understand the situation of a person who hasn't had everything handed to them on a plate or who hasn't had the particular combination of fortunate circumstance that made it possible for them to use their skills to ascend to the top.

You're creating a false dichotomy. Some right-wingers hate the poor. Some left-wingers hate the rich. Neither is an essential quality.

Since when is saying somebody is responsible for poverty hating them?

At best, it's ugly truth, at worst it's a gross misconception. Not hatred, though.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed May 30, 2018 12:56 am

Why would I hate myself? :unsure:
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Postby Oil exporting People » Wed May 30, 2018 12:56 am

Vassenor wrote:I find it telling that people need to frame a desire to end systemic inequality as "you just hate the rich".


I've never really understood the deal with inequality in the American context. Concern over stagnant wages and such? Yes, obviously. But not inequality. For example, let's say the poverty line is $20,000 and we have a group of five people. Four of the five make $100,000 a year while the other one makes $10 Million. Obviously, there is inequality here, but this doesn't mean the other four aren't doing exceptionally well.
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Postby Oil exporting People » Wed May 30, 2018 12:57 am

The blAAtschApen wrote:Why would I hate myself? :unsure:


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Postby New haven america » Wed May 30, 2018 1:01 am

I don't hate them for ideological reasons, I just think that they should pull their weight in society.

No, having more money than others doesn't make them better/superior, nor does it excuse them from not paying taxes (Which they should be paying more of) and not helping those less fortunate then them. A lot of them just hoard their insanely large wealth and exploit those below them.

I'd personally like a nationwide wealth redistribution, but I don't see that happening anytime soon...
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed May 30, 2018 1:02 am

yes

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed May 30, 2018 1:04 am

Oil exporting People wrote:
The blAAtschApen wrote:Why would I hate myself? :unsure:


I'd love you forever if you wanna fund my efforts to get a Masters.


What major?
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