NATION

PASSWORD

Mocking of the French in WW2

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Sicaris
Envoy
 
Posts: 314
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Mocking of the French in WW2

Postby Sicaris » Wed May 16, 2018 2:26 pm

So, I’m sure most, if not all of you, have seen “French surrender” jokes some point in your life. However, one thing that all of these disregard is how amazing the French had prepared for the Second World War. The MAS-36 Rifle was a great example of an amazing piece of French engineering, being reliable and relatively common, and well liked. Same with the MAS-38 Submacne Gun. Besides this, their tanks were horrifying for the Germans to face when they invaded France. The SOMUA S-35 and Char B-1 are great examples of this. The S-35 served the ole of the light tank extremely well, but was very costly because of the way it was produced. The Char B1 was a monster of a tank, especially against early-war German Panzers. The thing had extremely thick armor and two highly effective gun that made short work of the German tanks at the time. I remember a story about a Char B1 clearing a town of around a dozen, if not more Panzers but was beat back when artillery barrages came in.

The French plan for the war was also ingenious, even though it utterly failed in the end. Had it worked, I’m sure the war would have had a much different outcome. You can learn more about it here.

So, NSG, why do you think everything about the French in WW2 is mocked so much, other than the surrender itself?
Sicaris does not reflect my own political views. Only specific NS stats are used.
Classical liberal, believer in laissez-faire. Express some socially liberal, some right wing views. Civic nationalist.
8values
Political Compass

“Those who looked death bravely in the eye were usually not chosen.”
― Witold Pilecki

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12745
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 16, 2018 2:27 pm

the french sucked end of story. should not have been given back their homeland. should have been occupied and partioned ala germany style.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73429
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 16, 2018 2:28 pm

Sicaris wrote:So, I’m sure most, if not all of you, have seen “French surrender” jokes some point in your life. However, one thing that all of these disregard is how amazing the French had prepared for the Second World War. The MAS-36 Rifle was a great example of an amazing piece of French engineering, being reliable and relatively common, and well liked. Same with the MAS-38 Submacne Gun. Besides this, their tanks were horrifying for the Germans to face when they invaded France. The SOMUA S-35 and Char B-1 are great examples of this. The S-35 served the ole of the light tank extremely well, but was very costly because of the way it was produced. The Char B1 was a monster of a tank, especially against early-war German Panzers. The thing had extremely thick armor and two highly effective gun that made short work of the German tanks at the time. I remember a story about a Char B1 clearing a town of around a dozen, if not more Panzers but was beat back when artillery barrages came in.

The French plan for the war was also ingenious, even though it utterly failed in the end. Had it worked, I’m sure the war would have had a much different outcome. You can learn more about it here.


One Char = 13 Panzers!
So, NSG, why do you think everything about the French in WW2 is mocked so much, other than the surrender itself?

It's a pretty recent phenemenon; WW2 is an excuse, not the cause.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43741
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 16, 2018 2:28 pm

Uxupox wrote:the french sucked end of story. should not have been given back their homeland. should have been occupied and partioned ala germany style.

Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12745
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 16, 2018 2:31 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Uxupox wrote:the french sucked end of story. should not have been given back their homeland. should have been occupied and partioned ala germany style.

Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1


hmm. something like this?

Image


All lands to have permanent allied bases at the will of the victorious allies. Foreign policy for all these created states would have been non existent as well.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
New Raffica
Envoy
 
Posts: 229
Founded: Nov 15, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Raffica » Wed May 16, 2018 2:32 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Uxupox wrote:the french sucked end of story. should not have been given back their homeland. should have been occupied and partioned ala germany style.

Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1


Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again
Proud member of Icarus

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12745
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 16, 2018 2:34 pm

New Raffica wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1


Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again


Germany was a factor in WW1 not it's cause. If the international community wanted to avoid another resurgent Germany maybe they should have actually upheld the treaty that was signed instead they ignored it like the buffoons that they were.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
Sicaris
Envoy
 
Posts: 314
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sicaris » Wed May 16, 2018 2:35 pm

New Raffica wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1


Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again



Technically Germany didn’t cause the war. A conspiracy group of anti-Austrian/Hungarian assassins did.
Sicaris does not reflect my own political views. Only specific NS stats are used.
Classical liberal, believer in laissez-faire. Express some socially liberal, some right wing views. Civic nationalist.
8values
Political Compass

“Those who looked death bravely in the eye were usually not chosen.”
― Witold Pilecki

User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8012
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:36 pm

Uxupox wrote:
New Raffica wrote:
Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again


Germany was a factor in WW1 not it's cause. If the international community wanted to avoid another resurgent Germany maybe they should have actually upheld the treaty that was signed instead they ignored it like the buffoons that they were.


Uphold it how? Another war? Stern letters from the Leauge of Nations?
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13508
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Wed May 16, 2018 2:37 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Germany was a factor in WW1 not it's cause. If the international community wanted to avoid another resurgent Germany maybe they should have actually upheld the treaty that was signed instead they ignored it like the buffoons that they were.


Uphold it how? Another war? Stern letters from the Leauge of Nations?


You know how France occupied the Rhineland? That, but, later.
Political compass:
Economic: -7.63
Social: -7.79

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12745
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 16, 2018 2:37 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Germany was a factor in WW1 not it's cause. If the international community wanted to avoid another resurgent Germany maybe they should have actually upheld the treaty that was signed instead they ignored it like the buffoons that they were.


Uphold it how? Another war? Stern letters from the Leauge of Nations?


Indefinite occupation of the Rhineland.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8012
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:39 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Uphold it how? Another war? Stern letters from the Leauge of Nations?


Indefinite occupation of the Rhineland.


Occupation, or annexation?
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13508
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Wed May 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Indefinite occupation of the Rhineland.


Occupation, or annexation?


Until we build up enough bitter resentment with the German people that Hitler pops up no matter what we do.
Political compass:
Economic: -7.63
Social: -7.79

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12745
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 16, 2018 2:41 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Indefinite occupation of the Rhineland.


Occupation, or annexation?


Occupation.

Valrifell wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Occupation, or annexation?


Until we build up enough bitter resentment with the German people that Hitler pops up no matter what we do.


Preemptive strike when Hitler decides too violate the treaty right and left.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32982
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed May 16, 2018 2:41 pm

The French started it!

Image
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43741
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 16, 2018 2:41 pm

New Raffica wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1


Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again

Not to my liking. Also it was the Anglos who where soft on Germany while France wanted what happened to Germany after WW2 to happen then. Us yanks and the Anglos decided to go soft on them and then not listen to France where Germany began to rearm.

Because you have to remember that the French invaded Germany to make sure that Germany kept to the treaty. It was the Brits who disagreed with confronting Germany
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13508
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Wed May 16, 2018 2:42 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
New Raffica wrote:
Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again

Not to my liking. Also it was the Anglos who where soft on Germany while France wanted what happened to Germany after WW2 to happen then. Us yanks and the Anglos decided to go soft on them and then not listen to France where Germany began to rearm.

Because you have to remember that the French invaded Germany to make sure that Germany kept to the treaty. It was the Brits who disagreed with confronting Germany


Once again history proves that Chamberlain was just a mistake.
Political compass:
Economic: -7.63
Social: -7.79

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12745
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 16, 2018 2:43 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Not to my liking. Also it was the Anglos who where soft on Germany while France wanted what happened to Germany after WW2 to happen then. Us yanks and the Anglos decided to go soft on them and then not listen to France where Germany began to rearm.

Because you have to remember that the French invaded Germany to make sure that Germany kept to the treaty. It was the Brits who disagreed with confronting Germany


Once again history proves that Chamberlain was just a mistake.


Chamberlain was a shithead for a lack of a better word.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

User avatar
The East Marches II
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13734
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Wed May 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
New Raffica wrote:
Germany WAS squashed after WWI. The international community just let them to build back up and turned a blind eye, or didn't care enough, because WWI was "the war to end all wars" and Germany wouldn't cause a war like that to happen again

Not to my liking. Also it was the Anglos who where soft on Germany while France wanted what happened to Germany after WW2 to happen then. Us yanks and the Anglos decided to go soft on them and then not listen to France where Germany began to rearm.

Because you have to remember that the French invaded Germany to make sure that Germany kept to the treaty. It was the Brits who disagreed with confronting Germany


The French had nearly 6 million men mobilizable with a couple million being field troops. If you can't go to an occupation without a mere 90,000 Englishmen, then you have only yourself to blame. That is to say that the English are still culpable but that was a garbage analysis.
On vacation in 【Dubrovnik】
Will return if not killed by 【Montenegrins】

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43741
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Not to my liking. Also it was the Anglos who where soft on Germany while France wanted what happened to Germany after WW2 to happen then. Us yanks and the Anglos decided to go soft on them and then not listen to France where Germany began to rearm.

Because you have to remember that the French invaded Germany to make sure that Germany kept to the treaty. It was the Brits who disagreed with confronting Germany


Once again history proves that Chamberlain was just a mistake.

Chamberlain was a big mistake
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Japan and Pacific States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: Apr 09, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Japan and Pacific States » Wed May 16, 2018 2:45 pm

Let's agree to disagree. The French did an absolutely horrid job in WWII. ...And should've become the third republic of Poland so Poles didn't have to go back to commie infested Poland after the war only to end up being tried for crimes they didn't commit and executed.
Nationstates Stats not Used
Current Events:The Imperial Japanese Military High Command announces the creation of "Orbital Divers" and a new branch of the armed forces, the Imperial Japanese Space Force, comprising of HSSTs and Armoured Capsules carrying TSFs to be dropped from orbit with newly created "Re-entry Orbital bombs" dropped from HSSTs.
Muv-luv Alternative: Turning Point(OCC/Sign up)

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43741
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 16, 2018 2:46 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Not to my liking. Also it was the Anglos who where soft on Germany while France wanted what happened to Germany after WW2 to happen then. Us yanks and the Anglos decided to go soft on them and then not listen to France where Germany began to rearm.

Because you have to remember that the French invaded Germany to make sure that Germany kept to the treaty. It was the Brits who disagreed with confronting Germany


The French had nearly 6 million men mobilizable with a couple million being field troops. If you can't go to an occupation without a mere 90,000 Englishmen, then you have only yourself to blame. That is to say that the English are still culpable but that was a garbage analysis.

Ya but the French weren’t about to go and invade and then have the Brits all pissed that they invading Germany. That’s why the French needed the Brits not for the military power but for the international support
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43741
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Japan and Pacific States wrote:Let's agree to disagree. The French did an absolutely horrid job in WWII. ...And should've become the third republic of Poland so Poles didn't have to go back to commie infested Poland after the war only to end up being tried for crimes they didn't commit and executed.

Ya no. France remains France. Germany should have been totally disbanded and a good chunk should have been handed to the Jews
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Baltenstein
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9491
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Wed May 16, 2018 2:50 pm

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

User avatar
The South Falls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7331
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The South Falls » Wed May 16, 2018 2:52 pm

The reaosn being that America, who was the dominant power, needed to make themselves look great. So, they decided to make a scapegoat, like the always do. "We saved the scaredy-cat French from certain doom lolollololo11!OL!O!Ol" sounds better than "We fought alongside French partisans for years, and France posed a threat to Germany for quite a while."
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

Next

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Absolon-7, Bombadil, Cetacea, Charlia, Dark Socialism, Dormill and Stiura, El-Amin Caliphate, Genivaria, Great Minarchistan, Grinning Dragon, Haishan, Hamstan, Jolthig, Kerla, Kohr, Liriena, Negu, New haven america, Northern Davincia, Obirigrad, Oldenfranck, Palancia, Reignment, Reunited Soviets, Right wing humour squad, Sacara, Sierra Lyricalia, Sokolist Republics, Uxupox, Washington Resistance Army

Remove ads

cron