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Population limit?

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He Qixin
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Posts: 606
Founded: Aug 28, 2017
Ex-Nation

Population limit?

Postby He Qixin » Sun May 13, 2018 2:39 am

I have always been curious - what is the maximum number of people your nation could have, if there were even a limit at all?

I asked this because right now, Kyupaa is only days 1 day (!) away from reaching 34 billion people.
Last edited by He Qixin on Thu May 17, 2018 4:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
jacknjellify wrote:Watch Battle For Dream Island or be eliminated.

According to this index, this civilization is:
Tier: 8
Level: 5
Type: 6
A 9 civilization because I lean more towards it.

This nation is always used to post in the forums unless the forum is the WA, for which I use Triangle and Square, a WA member, to post.

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Trotterdam
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Posts: 6180
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sun May 13, 2018 2:52 am

No limit, other than the number of days that the game has been online.

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Crazybloxian Empire
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Posts: 299
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Crazybloxian Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 11:25 pm

One thing to tell ya: I think its 2,147,483,647 billion beacuse of the NationStates population counter using hexadecimal, which is my theory
important links: The Crazybloxian TimesNationStates Rules (for 1st-timers)Official WebsiteMy NationInfo about Nationstates on Wikipedia
THIS NATION IS AT WAR WITH RENEGALLE SINCE JULY 17, 2018

Long Live Inuka

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Trotterdam
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed May 16, 2018 11:38 pm

There's no way on our end to know whether the game uses signed or unsigned 32-bit integers, signed or unsigned 64-bit integers, or floating point numbers. I recall having seen something in the game once (the ByteCoin event?) that at first appeared to be all-integers, but then got inflated until it started needing scientific notation, demonstrating that it's actually using floating point numbers.

However, any such technical limit should never get reached during the game's lifespan. If it does, that's a bug.

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Crazybloxian Empire
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Crazybloxian Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 11:49 pm

Trotterdam wrote:There's no way on our end to know whether the game uses signed or unsigned 32-bit integers, signed or unsigned 64-bit integers, or floating point numbers. I recall having seen something in the game once (the ByteCoin event?) that at first appeared to be all-integers, but then got inflated until it started needing scientific notation, demonstrating that it's actually using floating point numbers.

However, any such technical limit should never get reached during the game's lifespan. If it does, that's a bug.

You mean its possible to have 68.6837 population?
Last edited by Crazybloxian Empire on Wed May 16, 2018 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
important links: The Crazybloxian TimesNationStates Rules (for 1st-timers)Official WebsiteMy NationInfo about Nationstates on Wikipedia
THIS NATION IS AT WAR WITH RENEGALLE SINCE JULY 17, 2018

Long Live Inuka

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Eastern Neopia
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Posts: 1
Founded: May 16, 2018
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Postby Eastern Neopia » Wed May 16, 2018 11:55 pm

Crazybloxian Empire wrote:You mean its possible to have 687 population?


If it's a double, then it's possible to have a population of 1.8x10308, in whatever the base logical unit is (million?).

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Trotterdam
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed May 16, 2018 11:58 pm

Keep in mind, you'd start getting overflow errors before actually hitting the maximum possible population, due to the various census scores that are multiplied by population.

Like I said, though, it doesn't matter, because we're never going to get anywhere near that limit.

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He Qixin
Diplomat
 
Posts: 606
Founded: Aug 28, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby He Qixin » Thu May 17, 2018 4:12 am

I've thought of some good guesses:

2,147,483,647 - 32-bit Integer Limit
4,503,599,627,370,496 - The largest integer which can exactly be represented in IEEE double precision floating-point format.
36,028,797,018,963,968 - Don't know much about this number. I only know that reaching this high in the Y axis in Minecraft will make you lose the capability to fall.
9,223,372,036,854,775,807 - 64-bit Integer Limit
1.79769313486231590772931*10^308 - Largest C++ Number

Time to reach the above numbers (all numbers * 1,000,000 + assuming that the population grows by 7 million people every day):
2,147,483,647 - ~840,502 years (external value = ~0.841 years, or about 307 days)
4,503,599,627,370,496 - ~1.76 trillion years (external value = ~1.76 million years)
36,028,797,018,963,968 - ~14.1 trillion years (external value = ~14.1 million years)
9,223,372,036,854,775,807 - ~3.61 quadrillion years (external value = ~3.61 billion years)
1.79769313486231590772931*10^308 - ~7.04 × 10^304 years (external value = ~7.04 × 10^298 years)

Source: Wikipedia, WolframAlpha
Last edited by He Qixin on Thu May 17, 2018 5:01 am, edited 7 times in total.
jacknjellify wrote:Watch Battle For Dream Island or be eliminated.

According to this index, this civilization is:
Tier: 8
Level: 5
Type: 6
A 9 civilization because I lean more towards it.

This nation is always used to post in the forums unless the forum is the WA, for which I use Triangle and Square, a WA member, to post.

User avatar
Trotterdam
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6180
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Thu May 17, 2018 4:47 am

Keep in mind that I'm fairly sure population is internally stored in millions, so for that to run out, you need to multiply all the times you just posted by one million.

Of course, there are a number of places where the game does multiple the internal value (in millions) by one million to produce the full population (in people), and like I said, those would overflow before the internal value does.

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He Qixin
Diplomat
 
Posts: 606
Founded: Aug 28, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby He Qixin » Thu May 17, 2018 5:03 am

Trotterdam wrote:Keep in mind that I'm fairly sure population is internally stored in millions, so for that to run out, you need to multiply all the times you just posted by one million.

Of course, there are a number of places where the game does multiple the internal value (in millions) by one million to produce the full population (in people), and like I said, those would overflow before the internal value does.

Yep, definitely significant.

For example, you only need less than a year of playing on NS for your population to reach 2.147 billion people, but reaching 2.147 quadrillion people requires more than 840,000 years of playing.
Last edited by He Qixin on Thu May 17, 2018 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
jacknjellify wrote:Watch Battle For Dream Island or be eliminated.

According to this index, this civilization is:
Tier: 8
Level: 5
Type: 6
A 9 civilization because I lean more towards it.

This nation is always used to post in the forums unless the forum is the WA, for which I use Triangle and Square, a WA member, to post.


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