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The Parkus Empire
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Fascism

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 1:30 pm

A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic
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Postby New Bradenia » Mon May 07, 2018 1:32 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic


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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Mon May 07, 2018 1:34 pm

Highly nationalistic authoritarian dictatorships. I think the emphasis on nationalism, and how the wellbeing of the individual must be sacrificed for the good of the nation is key, which is probably why they usually oppose Marxism so strongly.
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Irou
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Postby Irou » Mon May 07, 2018 1:37 pm

Chestaan wrote:Highly nationalistic authoritarian dictatorships. I think the emphasis on nationalism, and how the wellbeing of the individual must be sacrificed for the good of the nation is key, which is probably why they usually oppose Marxism so strongly.

But what is a nation in fascist's eyes?
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Postby Tobleste » Mon May 07, 2018 1:38 pm

1. Intolerance of alternative political groups.
2. Belief in a superior culture/race that the government should protect.
3. Support for an unchallenged strongman.
4. Aggressive approach to enemies - foreign and domestic.
5. Conservative view of gender roles.

This is an interesting question and I found a political scientist's description of the tenets of fascism. https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon May 07, 2018 1:39 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic

I would say:

>corporatism or syndicalist economic system
>palingenetic ultranationalism
>totalitarianism
>extreme militarism and glorification of violence
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DPR of Arstotzka
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Postby DPR of Arstotzka » Mon May 07, 2018 1:40 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic

My personal criteria of fascism are:

1. Authoritarian/Totalitarian
2. Socially Conservative
3. Class-Based Society
4. Militaristic
5. Nationalist or promoting a certain group of people (Hitler was nationalist and promoted the Aryan race, while Franco was nationalist and promoted Catholicism)
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Heimatia
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Postby Heimatia » Mon May 07, 2018 1:43 pm

Irou wrote:
Chestaan wrote:Highly nationalistic authoritarian dictatorships. I think the emphasis on nationalism, and how the wellbeing of the individual must be sacrificed for the good of the nation is key, which is probably why they usually oppose Marxism so strongly.

But what is a nation in fascist's eyes?

If we're to go with Mussolini's initial blend of Fascism, then it is merely the state. He didn't even hold particularly inflammatory views on race till ol' tiny mustache got powerful and scary.
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Zurkerx
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Postby Zurkerx » Mon May 07, 2018 1:44 pm

My criteria:

1. Nationalist
2. Social Conservative
3. Militaristic
4. Imperialistic
5. Corporatism
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The Black Party
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Postby The Black Party » Mon May 07, 2018 1:44 pm

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 1:45 pm

DPR of Arstotzka wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic

My personal criteria of fascism are:

1. Authoritarian/Totalitarian
2. Socially Conservative
3. Class-Based Society
4. Militaristic
5. Nationalist or promoting a certain group of people (Hitler was nationalist and promoted the Aryan race, while Franco was nationalist and promoted Catholicism)

This seems to drastically expand fascism beyond a modernist ideology.
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Northeast American Federation
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby Northeast American Federation » Mon May 07, 2018 1:52 pm

I'm curious, what more is there to this discussion beyond simply laying out definitions.
And for the sake of sticking to that, my definition of fascism would include:
1. Hypernationalism
2. Totalitarianism
3. Dictatorship(usually)
4. Hypermilitarism
5. State partnership with major companies(as opposed to more socialist economic systems in which the state simply takes them over outright)
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon May 07, 2018 1:57 pm

It needs populism and anti-capitalism imo, alongside nationalism, and a support for violence as a rejuvenating force in society. There should also be an ambivalence to democracy at least, and more normally, hostility to democracy.
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Postby Reikoku » Mon May 07, 2018 2:26 pm

The best description I know of would be a totalitarian, militaristic, and patriarchal ideology which is centered around national rebirth while being strongly for vitalism and idealism in the face of Marxist materialism and liberal positivism. Corporatist and other organic economic bodies are supported over laissez-faire capitalism or collectivist communism. The best examples of this would be the Falange and Italian Fascist Party which fulfilled the entire criterion, while others such as Nazi Germany had numerous elements, but may not have completed them all.
The Parkus Empire wrote:2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.


Fascism is about as conservative as the Gorean subculture. It wants more children for the state, and is not afraid to violate institutions such as marriage in order to achieve this (Mussolini rewarded unwed couples and Himmler encouraged trysts between Waffen SS officers and native women in Nordic countries).
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Postby Sicaris » Mon May 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Heimatia wrote:
Irou wrote:But what is a nation in fascist's eyes?

If we're to go with Mussolini's initial blend of Fascism, then it is merely the state. He didn't even hold particularly inflammatory views on race till ol' tiny mustache got powerful and scary.


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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic


I agree with your checklist, actually. That's pretty much the list I'd use with maybe an extra one just emphasising the nationalism aspect implied by point 2.

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Postby The South Falls » Mon May 07, 2018 2:31 pm

My characteristics are those already said. Totalitarianism, economic/social conservatism, and militarism, but I see another one. Reliance on a 'ultra-strong' leader, which will eventually die. Then, the nation collapses. Another characteristic is flags using red and black, in an abundance.
Last edited by The South Falls on Mon May 07, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 2:36 pm

Reikoku wrote:The best description I know of would be a totalitarian, militaristic, and patriarchal ideology which is centered around national rebirth while being strongly for vitalism and idealism in the face of Marxist materialism and liberal positivism. Corporatist and other organic economic bodies are supported over laissez-faire capitalism or collectivist communism. The best examples of this would be the Falange and Italian Fascist Party which fulfilled the entire criterion, while others such as Nazi Germany had numerous elements, but may not have completed them all.
The Parkus Empire wrote:2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.


Fascism is about as conservative as the Gorean subculture. It wants more children for the state, and is not afraid to violate institutions such as marriage in order to achieve this (Mussolini rewarded unwed couples and Himmler encouraged trysts between Waffen SS officers and native women in Nordic countries).

These are at most exceptions (with the first one an alternative to abortion and contraception) rather than defining policy. Unless the second was a winking way to encourage raping subjugated populations.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Mon May 07, 2018 2:40 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Reikoku wrote:The best description I know of would be a totalitarian, militaristic, and patriarchal ideology which is centered around national rebirth while being strongly for vitalism and idealism in the face of Marxist materialism and liberal positivism. Corporatist and other organic economic bodies are supported over laissez-faire capitalism or collectivist communism. The best examples of this would be the Falange and Italian Fascist Party which fulfilled the entire criterion, while others such as Nazi Germany had numerous elements, but may not have completed them all.

Fascism is about as conservative as the Gorean subculture. It wants more children for the state, and is not afraid to violate institutions such as marriage in order to achieve this (Mussolini rewarded unwed couples and Himmler encouraged trysts between Waffen SS officers and native women in Nordic countries).

These are at most exceptions (with the first one an alternative to abortion and contraception) rather than defining policy. Unless the second was a winking way to encourage raping subjugated populations.

It was a winking way to encourage that. I mean, if they wanted just more people making babies, they would have had more German women consensually having sex. But, they wanted to keep the men of the population that were not in camps, 'having their women used by the conquerors'. It makes one feel useless, and was a psych trick.
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon May 07, 2018 2:43 pm

My definition of fascism:
Extreme nationalism to the point of racism. Looking at others' responses, I guess dictatorship fits in too.
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

I would consider fascism to be a highly nationalistic (often jingoist/imperialist), authoritarian, corporatist or syndicalist-leaning form of government, suppressing dissent and being heavily corrupt. Typically traditionalist, focusing on the ideal family as a representative of the country's superior culture.
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Postby Aureumterra » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

I feel Fascism and Nazism are two different things. For me, true Fascism is Mussolini’s style
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:My definition of fascism:
Extreme nationalism to the point of racism. Looking at others' responses, I guess dictatorship fits in too.

Do you believe all ethnic nationalism is fascism? For example, would you say Federalist Paper No. 2 is a fascist work?
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Kubumba Tribe
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon May 07, 2018 2:49 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:My definition of fascism:
Extreme nationalism to the point of racism. Looking at others' responses, I guess dictatorship fits in too.

Do you believe all ethnic nationalism is fascism?

Take note if where I said "extreme"
The Parkus Empire wrote:For example, would you say Federalist Paper No. 2 is a fascist work?

I've never read that before, so idk.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 07, 2018 2:50 pm

Aureumterra wrote:I feel Fascism and Nazism are two different things. For me, true Fascism is Mussolini’s style

Nazism is heavily based off of Italian fascism, however, and contains very similar elements. It focuses more on ethnic identity than Mussiboi did, but otherwise seems like a German mirror version.
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