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[Draft]By George!

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Thespolis
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[Draft]By George!

Postby Thespolis » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:03 am

[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DENONYM@@ Georgist Party, which is nearly identical to your party as far as policy comes, but splits off in its support of Georgist Market Socialism. Their leader, coincidentally named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ George, wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist.

[option]The leader of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVEINITIALS@@GP giddily approaches you, "Most gracious salutations, @@LEADER@@, I know that your party isn't too keen towards Market Socialism, but think of the opportunity you have here! Together we'd forge an outstanding grand coalition in parliament and could revolutionize the future of @@NAME@@ for decades to come! Market Socialism fits perfectly into Marxist ideology, it shouldn't be too big of a shift on the status quo.
[effects]the country is increasingly decried as practicing "Socialism with @@DENONYM characteristics@@"

[option] As Mr.George leaves your office, your skeptical parliament minister looks up from his newspaper, "We shouldn't risk our national economic values over a majority; we can safely form a majority without their numbers, and maintain our economic ideals, too. I'd say it shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant with our economic policy. Plus, they can be a genuine opposition party. That'll please those capitalist imperialists who keep decrying our revolution as undemocratic.
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold planned economics.

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, comes waltzing in, "You're kidding; we have an opportunity to take real action for the future of our party! You know why these Georgists are attracting so many to the ballot? Because they preach a new revolutionary message; A mixture of socialist equality and relief for the human desire for greed, I mean, uh, competition. Let's face it, as it stands, we're going to be looking like the "conservative" party if they keep getting traction, so why not adapt some moderate reforms of theirs siphon their vote? If we just tap into some of the core elements of our opposition's party positions, we could become a more diverse party ourselves and never have to rely on unstable coalitions in the future!
[effects]the all-encompassing ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its hundreds of opposing viewpoints


[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DENONYM@@ Georgist Party, a party nearly identical to your party as far as policy comes, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Their leader, coincidentally named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ George, wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist.

[option]The leader of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVEINITIALS@@GP giddily approaches you, "Most gracious salutations, @@LEADER@@, I know that your party is keen on upholding our planned economy, but think of the opportunity you have here! Together we'd forge an outstanding grand coalition in parliament and could revolutionize the future of @@NAME@@ for decades to come! All we suggest with Market Socialism is to end the planned economy of @@NAME@@ while also keeping the means of production democratic; Markets can distribute resources just as well, and such would allow for competition to exist between worker' co-ops, and so much stress would be removed from the government if it weren't forced to constantly calibrate the economy. Is that really too radical from the status quo? Come on, @@LEADER@@, let's form ourselves a grand coalition, the future of @@NAME@@ can be shaped for the better, together.
[effects]the country is increasingly decried as practicing "Socialism with @@DENONYM characteristics@@"

[option] As Mr.George leaves your office, your skeptical parliament minister looks up from his newspaper, "We shouldn't risk our national economic values over a majority; we can safely form a majority without their numbers, and maintain our strong and stable planned economy for the good of all workers in our great nation. I'd say it shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant with our economic policy than to fold to radicals all over a coalition. Plus, they can be a genuine opposition party. That'll please those capitalist imperialists who keep decrying our revolution as undemocratic.
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold planned economics.

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, comes waltzing in, "You're kidding; we have an opportunity to take real action for the future of our party! You know why Comrade George over here is attracting so many to the ballot? Because he's preaching a new and revolutionary message; A mixture of socialist equality and relief for the human desire for greed, I mean, uh, competition. Let's face it, as it stands, we're going to be looking like the conservative party as far as the far-left is concerned if they keep gaining traction and if we don't take action, so why not adapt some moderate reforms of theirs siphon their vote? If we just tap into some of the core elements of our opposition's party positions, we could massively increase our party's political diversity. We'd attract swing seats, moderate politicians, undecided voter, and best of all never have to rely on unstable coalitions in the future. So what if our party is split up into numerous camps? We'd always hold an outright majority."
[effects]the all-encompassing ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its dozens of factions


[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DENONYM@@ Georgist Party, a party nearly identical to your party as far as policy comes, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Their leader, coincidentally named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ George, wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist.

[option]The leader of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVEINITIALS@@GP giddily approaches you, "Most gracious salutations, @@LEADER@@, I know that your party is keen on upholding our planned economy, but think of the opportunity you have here! Together we'd forge an outstanding grand coalition in parliament and could revolutionize the future of @@NAME@@ for decades to come! All we suggest with Market Socialism is to end the planned economy of @@NAME@@ while keeping the means of production democratic; Well regulated markets can distribute resources better than government planning, and it would also allow for competition to exist between worker' co-ops. Imagine how much stress could be removed from the government if it weren't forced to constantly calibrate the economy? Come on, @@LEADER@@, let's form ourselves a grand coalition for the future of @@NAME@@'s workers! @@SLOGAN@@!
[effects]the nation finds itself constantly on the defense over the market's place in the revolution

[option] As Mr.George leaves your office, your skeptical parliament minister looks up from his newspaper, "We shouldn't risk our economic values over a majority; we can safely form a government without their seats and maintain our planned economy for the equal good of all workers in our great nation. I'd say it shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant with our economic policy than to fold to radicals all over a coalition when we have other options to turn to. Plus, they can be a genuine opposition party in the legislature, that'll show those imperialists who decry our revolution as undemocratic. There's nothing wrong with the status quo, @@LEADER@@, let's just keep the revolution planned out.
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold its beloved planned economy

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, comes waltzing in, "You're kidding; we have an opportunity to take real action for the future of our party! You know why Comrade George over here is winning so many seats? Because he's preaching a new and revolutionary message; A mixture of socialist equality and relief for the human desire for greed, I mean, uh, competition. Let's face it, as it stands, we're going to be looking like the conservative party as far as the far-left is concerned if we remain so stagnant, so why not adapt some moderate reforms of theirs siphon their vote? If we just tap into some of the core elements of smaller parties, we could massively increase our party's political diversity. Think about it, we'd never have the mark of a stagnant and unmoving conservative bloc, but a revolutionary, all-inclusive union! We'd attract swing seats, moderate politicians, young people, and the all-mighty undecided voter. Best of all, we'd never have to rely on unstable coalitions in the future! So what if our party would be less uniform in nature? We'd always hold an outright majority!"
[effects]the all-encompassing ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its dozens of factions


[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DENONYM@@ Georgist Union, a political bloc nearly identical to yours as far as policy comes, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Owing their spike in popularity to the planned economy's inefficiency to distribute enough goods during the last major national holiday, their leader wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist. Also not for nations with holidays?

[option]The leader of the movement, George S. Tax, giddily approaches you, "Greetings, @@LEADER@@! I come here seeking a greater future for our great nation. Both our factions support the greater socialist dream, let's make that clear. But let's face it, our inefficient planned economy really messed up this time. Those poor kids on holiday going without baked beans and all. I propose that in our forming of a coalition, that we seek to phase out our strict planned economy with a regulated, orthodox market socialist economy. Think about all the possibilities! We efficiently see resources distributed whilst also upholding the international socialist ideal! We'd never have to deal with a national pomegranate seed shortage ever again, and we'd forge a stronger, more stable @@NAME@@ in the process!"
[effects]the nation finds itself constantly on the defense over the market's place in socialism

[option] As Mr.Tax leaves your office, your skeptical legislature minister looks up from his grey newspaper, eyebrows arched, "We shouldn't risk our economic values over a majority; we can safely form a government without their seats and maintain our planned economy for the equal good of all workers in our great nation. This holiday fumble was a minor inconvenience! Those kids got their baked beans and pomegranate seeds after no more than 40 hours! I'd say it shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant with our economic policy than to fold to radicals all over a coalition when we have other movements to turn to. Lastly, they can be a genuine opposition party in the legislature, that'll show those imperialists who accuse us of repression!"
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold its beloved planned economy

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, waltzes in, "You're kidding; we have an opportunity to take real action for the survival of socialism here and you're going to listen to this fossil? You know why Comrade George over here is winning so many seats? Because our planned economy is an utter slog! How the hell aren't we able to distribute, what was it, baked beans? We gain nothing from stagnancy, but alternatively, should we adopt some moderate positions of theirs and other blocs into our faction platform, we'd attract near every shade of red throughout @@NAME@@. For the future of our faction, we must leave such hardliners in the dust. If we succeed in this, and invest a bit more in our whips, we'd always hold an outright majority, even if we'd be a notch less uniform.'
[effects]the all-encompassing ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its dozens of factions


[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Georgist Union, a political bloc nearly identical to yours, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Owing their spike in popularity to the planned economy's inefficiency to distribute enough goods during the last major national holiday, their leader wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist. Also not for nations with no holidays?

[option]The leader of the movement, George S. Tax, giddily approaches you. "Greetings, @@LEADER@@! I come here coalition hunting for the greater socialist dream. A dream free of the repressive planned economy! Our bloc seeks to phase out the strict planned economy with a regulated, orthodox, market socialist one. We'd efficiently see resources distributed by a genuinely democratic marketplace whilst also upholding the international socialist ideal!"
[effects]the nation's diplomats are best friends with janitors at international socialist conferences (or: the nation has become a running joke at socialist conventions)

[option] As Mr.Tax leaves your office, your skeptical legislature minister looks up from his newspaper. "We shouldn't risk our economic values over a majority; we can safely form a government without their seats and maintain our planned economy for the equal good of all our workers. I'd say it shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant with our economic policy than to fold to radicals over a needless coalition. It might grow harder to find willing partners, but it shouldn't be too big a problem."
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold its beloved planned economy

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, bursts through the door. "You know why Comrade George out there is winning so many seats? Because our planned economy is an utter slog! How the hell aren't we able to distribute, what was it, baked beans? If we adopt some moderate positions of other blocs into our faction platform, we'd attract near every shade of red throughout @@NAME@@. If we do this and invest a bit more in our whips, we'd always hold an outright majority, even if we'd be a notch less uniform.'
[effects]the domineering ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its dozens of factions


[Title] By George!
[desc] In legislative elections, your party lost numerous seats to the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Georgist Union, unique in its support for the phase into a supply and demand driven Orthodox Market Socialist economy. Their massive drive in numbers is attributed to their successful criticism of the planned economy's recent failure to distribute baked beans during a recent holiday season.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist. Also not for nations with no holidays?

[option]The leader of the movement, George S. Tax, giddily approaches you. "@@LEADER@@, I'm coalition hunting for the greater socialist dream. A dream free of the repressive planned economy! We seek to phase out the strict planned economy with a regulated, orthodox, market socialist one. We'd mix supply and demand with social means of production and have a genuinely democratic marketplace whilst also upholding the international socialist ideal!"
[effects]the nation's diplomats are best friends with janitors at international socialist conferences (or: the nation has become a running joke at socialist conventions)

[option] Your skeptical legislature minister looks up from his newspaper. "We shouldn't risk our economic values over a majority; we can safely form a government without them and maintain our worker-oriented planned economy. It shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant than to fold to radicals. It might grow harder to find willing partners, but we've lasted this long, it shouldn't be too hard."
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold its beloved planned economy

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, bursts through the door. "You know why Comrade George out there is winning so many seats? You tell me! How the hell aren't we able to distribute baked beans? We adopt some moderate positions of other blocs into our faction platform, we'd attract near every shade of red throughout @@NAME@@. Do this and invest a bit more in our whips and we'd always hold an outright majority, even if we'd be a notch less uniform."
[effects]the domineering ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its dozens of factions
Last edited by Thespolis on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:28 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:32 am

How cool would it be if the @@RANDOMNAME@@ rolled a George, and the guy's name was George George... anyway, you might want to explain what Georgian socialism is
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The dark Panther
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Postby The dark Panther » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:35 am

Australian rePublic wrote:How cool would it be if the @@RANDOMNAME@@ rolled a George, and the guy's name was George George... anyway, you might want to explain what Georgian socialism is


guessing it's like maoism
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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:38 am

The Dark Panther wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:How cool would it be if the @@RANDOMNAME@@ rolled a George, and the guy's name was George George... anyway, you might want to explain what Georgian socialism is


guessing it's like maoism


Not really, if you want an idea of what questions it tries to answer I would reccomend Einstein's Why Socialism? Essay. He was apparently fairly into Georgism.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:40 am

I think you need to work a way of describing what Georgian Socialism is. Otherwise the majority of people are going to be confused by this issue.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
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Thespolis
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Postby Thespolis » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:19 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:How cool would it be if the @@RANDOMNAME@@ rolled a George, and the guy's name was George George... anyway, you might want to explain what Georgian socialism is

The more Georges the better! In any case, I hope I'm not being too erroneous in my conflation of Georgism and Market Socialism here, though I've attempted to add a bit of explanation in my revamped option 2, the red text being what I'll probably grind down to a more efficient and shorter variant.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:47 pm

Wait a moment...
Thespolis wrote:[effects]the country is increasingly decried as practicing "Socialism with @@DENONYM characteristics@@"
That's a red flag.

#481 option 4:
[effect]@@LEADER@@'s new political program is often mockingly called 'Capitalism with a Bigtopian face'

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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:54 am

Honestly, you can sort of conflate Georgism with market socialism, that's OK. I just don't think conflating it with Chairman Deng's 'communism with Chinese characteristics' works. I'd look to Tito's administration for inspiration on Market Socialism. Sandinista Nicaragua under the FSLN in the late 70's could sorta work as inspiration for the 'broad church' option as well.

Now you have the unenviable task of making the minutae of left wing political theory funny...

I will keep an eye on this as it looks to be interesting. Don't submit yet though as it is nowhere near ready.

Edit: a bigger problem here would be how to replicate this in the stats. The game treats any industry not owned by individuals as State owned. Personally, I'd like to see collectively owned industry as a fifth option on the economy pie chart but I think it would be very tricky to do. Having said that, I think it could still work.
Last edited by Caracasus on Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Thespolis » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:58 am

Caracasus wrote:Honestly, you can sort of conflate Georgism with market socialism, that's OK. I just don't think conflating it with Chairman Deng's 'communism with Chinese characteristics' works.

Yeah, I've tried to add a few more things in option 1 detailing the more orthodox nature of the proposed economic system and moved the effect away from the "Chinese characteristics" meme.

Caracasus wrote:The game treats any industry not owned by individuals as State owned. Personally, I'd like to see collectively owned industry as a fifth option on the economy pie chart but I think it would be very tricky to do. Having said that, I think it could still work.

The way I view it, "state owned" could either be interpreted to mean "state managed" in an authoritarian left way or "state owned and worker managed" in the libertarian left way. In any case, option 1 could be fine just slightly increasingly economic freedom while not explicitly decreasing income equality in the same vein of how option 2 of issue 76 increases both income equality and economic freedom..
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Postby Thespolis » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:31 pm

Bump I guess
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Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:52 am

[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DENONYM@@ Georgist Party, a party nearly identical to your party as far as policy comes, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Their leader, coincidentally named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ George, wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist.


Okay, so this is a little boring in places. Can we think of a situation that might have led to this party's rise to power? Perhaps Central Planning utterly failed to predict the popularity of a new fashion trend, food or toy - and the Georgists claim that market socialism may help? Again, make this funny. Also - why does it have to be a random male name?

[option]The leader of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVEINITIALS@@GP giddily approaches you, "Most gracious salutations, @@LEADER@@, I know that your party is keen on upholding our planned economy, but think of the opportunity you have here! Together we'd forge an outstanding grand coalition in parliament and could revolutionize the future of @@NAME@@ for decades to come! All we suggest with Market Socialism is to end the planned economy of @@NAME@@ while keeping the means of production democratic; Well regulated markets can distribute resources better than government planning, and it would also allow for competition to exist between worker' co-ops. Imagine how much stress could be removed from the government if it weren't forced to constantly calibrate the economy? Come on, @@LEADER@@, let's form ourselves a grand coalition for the future of @@NAME@@'s workers! @@SLOGAN@@!
[effects]the nation finds itself constantly on the defense over the market's place in the revolution


Okay - this needs to be shorter. Condense your explanation of market socialism - while letting the player know that this will not make their nation capitalist - and remove references to parliament. Additionally, make it funnier. If you take my first suggestion on the introduction you might have something you can use here to make it funny.

[option] As Mr.George leaves your office, your skeptical parliament minister looks up from his newspaper, "We shouldn't risk our economic values over a majority; we can safely form a government without their seats and maintain our planned economy for the equal good of all workers in our great nation. I'd say it shows much more strength for us to remain stagnant with our economic policy than to fold to radicals all over a coalition when we have other options to turn to. Plus, they can be a genuine opposition party in the legislature, that'll show those imperialists who decry our revolution as undemocratic. There's nothing wrong with the status quo, @@LEADER@@, let's just keep the revolution planned out.
[effects]the ruling party is pushed into increasingly perilous coalitions to uphold its beloved planned economy


Not bad as it goes. I would scan this and check that the speaker's voice seems right. Plus seems like a weird word for this person to use. I'd also remove the parliament minister - socialist nations don't tend to go in for parliamentary politics. Council Minister perhaps?

[option]Saul @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, your charismatic lawyer, comes waltzing in, "You're kidding; we have an opportunity to take real action for the future of our party! You know why Comrade George over here is winning so many seats? Because he's preaching a new and revolutionary message; A mixture of socialist equality and relief for the human desire for greed, I mean, uh, competition. Let's face it, as it stands, we're going to be looking like the conservative party as far as the far-left is concerned if we remain so stagnant, so why not adapt some moderate reforms of theirs siphon their vote? If we just tap into some of the core elements of smaller parties, we could massively increase our party's political diversity. Think about it, we'd never have the mark of a stagnant and unmoving conservative bloc, but a revolutionary, all-inclusive union! We'd attract swing seats, moderate politicians, young people, and the all-mighty undecided voter. Best of all, we'd never have to rely on unstable coalitions in the future! So what if our party would be less uniform in nature? We'd always hold an outright majority!"
[effects]the all-encompassing ruling party is at constant risk of splitting between its dozens of factions


This is far too long as it stands. You want to aim for a maximum of four lines here really. I'd advise going through and trimming the fat. You've more or less repeated yourself here several times.
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Thespolis
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Postby Thespolis » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:17 pm

Caracasus wrote:Okay, so this is a little boring in places. Can we think of a situation that might have led to this party's rise to power? Perhaps Central Planning utterly failed to predict the popularity of a new fashion trend, food or toy - and the Georgists claim that market socialism may help? Again, make this funny. Also - why does it have to be a random male name?


The planned economy could have never predicted such a magnitude of holiday-time demand for baked beans! I figured the humor of the crisis would be better expanded over the options and simply set up generally in the description text. George meanwhile promises no more commodity delays for highly demanded items like pomegranate seeds and baked beans through his market ideals.

Caracasus wrote:Not bad as it goes. I would scan this and check that the speaker's voice seems right. Plus seems like a weird word for this person to use. I'd also remove the parliament minister - socialist nations don't tend to go in for parliamentary politics. Council Minister perhaps?

The generic "legislature" should suffice, right?

Caracasus wrote:This is far too long as it stands. You want to aim for a maximum of four lines here really. I'd advise going through and trimming the fat. You've more or less repeated yourself here several times.

I tried to shorten it down and add a bit of personality and humor, building on the baked bean shortage, though I'm somewhat unsure if it remains too long and if I should seek to shorten it somewhat.
Last edited by Thespolis on Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thespolis » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:19 pm

I hope I'm not doing anything wrong by bumping again; I just want to tidy this up much as possible before a submission.
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:13 pm

Alright, Thespolis; lets take a quick looksie here. :D

The main thing that concerns me is that all of your options are really, really long — like up to 2x longer than need be.
I won't be helping you cut the length, but if you can, please do. If you can't, though... well, it's only three options,
and I'm sure the editors can work something out with you.

The Issue:
@@DENONYM@@ Georgist Union,
@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@*
I know, it gets confusing, and I'm sure the editors could probably work something out if you didn't fix it since they use their own things anyway.


Option 1:
giddily approaches you,
Period after you
I propose that in our forming of a coalition, that we seek
remove the second that, before "we seek".
the nation finds itself constantly on the defense over the market's place in socialism
In a way, you could even say they're "at odds with capitalists and socialists". :P


Option 2:
eyebrows arched,
Period after "arched".
when we have other movements to turn to.
I'm afraid I don't follow... could you explain what this is doing here?
Lastly, they can be a genuine opposition party in the legislature, that'll show those imperialists who accuse us of repression!"
Hmm... I'd rephrase this as
"We should consider them a genuine opposition party in the legislature. That'll show those imperialists what happened when we're accused of repression!"
or something.

Final note: This option's effect line isn't too interesting, imo. Just wanted to bring that to the table.


Option 3:
your charismatic lawyer, waltzes in,
Period after "waltzes in".


So, to summarize:
1) A few nitpicks
2) Everything's really, really lengthy.

That's really it. It's otherwise a... rather interesting draft, and one for socialism which I think is much welcome.
I do think you stand better chances if you can shorten things, but aside from that, you're a decent writer with a pleasant-to-read draft. Good luck. :)

Edit: Final note: Don't worry about bumping once in a while! As long as it's not more than once a day on a draft, 'specially if it's not even off the front page,
it's OK, and doing it once every week at most is what I do. Not spamming is fine, but it's also fine to bump your draft so others can see it. :D
Last edited by Jutsa on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:34 am

Strongly agree with Jutsa. Half the length of each option.

Also agree that the description needs to explain what Georgism is.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Thespolis
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Postby Thespolis » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:13 am

Bump
For: Stuff

Against: Other stuff

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:37 am

You've reduced the bulk, but I still don't feel you've explained what Georgism is adequately.

Also, when updating in response to comments, its generally a good idea to explicitly mention you've done so, otherwise the reading impression of many may be that you've ignored the comments and just bumped. Especially if those criticisms haven't been reacted to in the latest iteration...
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:26 am

[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Georgist Union, a political bloc nearly identical to yours, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Owing their spike in popularity to the planned economy's inefficiency to distribute enough goods during the last major national holiday, their leader wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist. Also not for nations with no holidays?


Maybe something like this:

Recent elections saw your party lose a significant chunk of its vote to the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Georgist Union - a political party that takes the radical step of advocating market activity for luxuries within your nation's socialist economic model. Their slogan "more fireworks for @@NAME@@ Day" won votes after your central planning committee faced dramatic firework shortages last @@NAME@@ day.

Something like that maybe? Obviously I've condensed and simplified Georgism a bit.
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Ab Humanitatis Scientiam
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
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Postby Ab Humanitatis Scientiam » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:48 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

Georgism, also called geoism[1] and single tax (archaic), is an economic philosophy holding that, while people should own the value they produce themselves, economic value derived from land (including natural resources and natural opportunities) should belong equally to all members of society.
...
Georgism is concerned with the distribution of economic rent caused by natural monopolies, pollution, and the control of commons, including title of ownership for natural resources and other contrived privileges (e.g., intellectual property). Any natural resource which is inherently limited in supply can generate economic rent, but the classical and most significant example of 'land monopoly' involves the extraction of common ground rent from valuable urban locations. Georgists argue that taxing economic rent is efficient, fair, and equitable. The main Georgist policy recommendation is a tax assessed on land value. Georgists argue that revenues from a land value tax (LVT) can be used to reduce or eliminate existing taxes (for example, on income, trade, or purchases) that are unfair and inefficient. Some Georgists also advocate for the return of surplus public revenue back to the people by means of a basic income or citizen's dividend.


So...

Where does this issue address the debate concerning the (in)justice of rent extraction via private land ownership, and the use of taxation and a citizen's divided to rectify things?

If the issue is merely about economic/market liberalization, Georgism is an oddly specific selection. Why Georgism as opposed to the vast plethora of other anti-state/anti-authoritarian/anarchist/democratic/liberal/market socialisms?

(It's just for the title, "By George!," isn't it? ;) )
Last edited by Ab Humanitatis Scientiam on Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Thespolis
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Postby Thespolis » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:41 pm

Caracasus wrote:
[Title] By George!
[desc] Recent legislative elections have seen the dramatic rise of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Georgist Union, a political bloc nearly identical to yours, but differs in its support of Georgism and Market Socialism. Owing their spike in popularity to the planned economy's inefficiency to distribute enough goods during the last major national holiday, their leader wishes to meet with you.
[validity] Valid only for socialist nations that have elections for their legislature and allow political opposition to exist. Also not for nations with no holidays?


Maybe something like this:

Recent elections saw your party lose a significant chunk of its vote to the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Georgist Union - a political party that takes the radical step of advocating market activity for luxuries within your nation's socialist economic model. Their slogan "more fireworks for @@NAME@@ Day" won votes after your central planning committee faced dramatic firework shortages last @@NAME@@ day.

Something like that maybe? Obviously I've condensed and simplified Georgism a bit.

I tried to mirror the intent of this without entirely copying the concept, while also shortening some of the other responses down, alongside the intro.

Ab Humanitatis Scientiam wrote:(It's just for the title, "By George!," isn't it? ;) )

I don't want to post the Walter White gif but it shouldn't be too hard to guess which one it'd be.

I initially wanted to include an element of Georgist single tax in the issue, but I found Market Socialism an easier cake to be applied to an already socialistic nation, as Georgism game off to me as being somewhat less radical, with Orthodox Market Socialism differently radical in nature.
For: Stuff

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2017 Z-day end chart

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Chan Island
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Founded: Nov 26, 2015
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Postby Chan Island » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:45 pm

This draft is much better.

For effect one, I think your first effect line proposal is far and away the better one.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.


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