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The Merits of Going Primitive!

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Saiwania
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The Merits of Going Primitive!

Postby Saiwania » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:44 pm

Anarcho-primitivism, is a fringe political or social movement that seeks to take our species back more towards the Stone Age. Like most people, I used to think that all there was to it- were a bunch of nut jobs that are neolithic wannabes. But as it turns out, it would seem that the primitive technologies and methods of our ancestors really did have a ton of merit. Our more modern lifestyles are absolutely no good for us in some respects. We're now too dependent on everything continuing to work as how we want it, such that if it were to stop- the vast majority of us wouldn't stand any chance.

It is a long lost art that if we can only recover or recreate it, any one of us can endure the loss of our current civilization and survive in the wilds of this world with relative comfort or ease.

There is this Youtube channel called Primitive Technology which gives demonstration videos of how to do all the things expected of hunter gatherers that enables survival. It has become one of the most popular channels on Youtube. His videos seem to get many millions of views because people want to know this stuff. It really inspires me to go into my backyard and try to recreate one of his tools or structures using only what I find outside.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/15/youtube ... e-age.html
To date, you could learn the following from his 35+ videos (with more to come) if you're able to get sufficient time and practice for it.

With only your bare hands, you can build the following structures: Waddle and Daub Hut, Thatched Dome Hut, Wood shed and bee domestication (produces honey), Palm Thatched Mud Hut, Tiled Roof Hut, Grass Hut, Barrel Tiled Shed, Bed Shed, and A-Frame Hut, and more.

It is also plausible for someone to manufacture the following tools with only natural materials: Fire sticks, Celtic style stone axe, Stone Adze, Clay Chimney and Pots, Sling, Baskets and Stone Hatchet, Cord drill and pump drill, Bow and Arrow, Woven Bark Fiber, Forge Blower, Freshwater Prawn Trap, Termite clay Kiln and Pottery, Water powered Hammer (Monjolo), Reusable Charcoal Mound, Sandals, Simplified Blower and Furnace, Mud Bricks, Natural Draft Furnace, Clay Pottery and Stove, etc.

People could learn the following methods using only their surroundings: How to produce Lime, Producing Charcoal, Growing Sweet potatoes, Cassava, and yams; the finer points of spear throwing, making certain beans or nuts safe to eat, etc.

My honest opinion is that he is a legend, he makes Bear Grylls look like a child; he is that skilled in the ways of bending nature to his dominion. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he would be alive, but me along with most of the rest of us- would starve or die of exposure to the elements or any number of things.

My theory is that people primarily object to primitivism not out of any love or dedication to our newer technology or way of life, but simply because most people can't figure out how to survive off the grid if put into that situation and don't have the means or ability to sufficiently learn those crucial skills. If it really was viable for people to just up and live off the land and quit civilization, do you think more people would do this?

Our modern life is obviously far superior in terms of amenities, it can be said to be more soulless because we've lost our connection with nature. I think I would jump at the chance to go back to our ancestral roots and try that sort of life for myself.

If you had to choose- would you pick the relative safety of civilization knowing full well that you won't be able to survive going outside of it, OR would you sacrifice living a modern lifestyle if you got the opportunity to learn the lost art of living off the land and had everything you needed to live primitively?
Last edited by Saiwania on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Auphelia
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Postby Auphelia » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:47 pm

I would choose civilisation, because a world without it isn't a world worth living in.
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:47 pm

The former. There are far more interesting things for me to learn and do than I can get going 'primitive'

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Postby Chill beats LLC » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:49 pm

Anprim-ism is kind of a terrible idea, imo. I prefer a more Kaczynskite approach to things. ISAIF, TechSlave and all that.
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Postby Azerbaijstan » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:51 pm

Saiwania wrote:Anarcho-primitivism, is a fringe political or social movement that seeks to take our species back more towards the Stone Age. Like most people, I used to think that all there was to it- were a bunch of nut jobs that are neolithic wannabes. But as it turns out, it would seem that the primitive technologies and methods of our ancestors really did have a ton of merit. Our more modern lifestyles are absolutely no good for us in some respects. We're now too dependent on everything continuing to work as how we want it, such that if it were to stop- the vast majority of us wouldn't stand any chance.

It is a long lost art that if we can only recover or recreate it, any one of us can endure the loss of our current civilization and survive in the wilds of this world with relative comfort or ease.

There is this Youtube channel called Primitive Technology which gives demonstration videos of how to do all the things expected of hunter gatherers that enables survival. It has become one of the most popular channels on Youtube. His videos seem to get many millions of views because people want to know this stuff. It really inspires me to go into my backyard and try to recreate one of his tools or structures using only what I find outside.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/15/youtube ... e-age.html
To date, you could learn the following from his 35+ videos (with more to come) if you're able to get sufficient time and practice for it.

With only your bare hands, you can build the following structures: Waddle and Daub Hut, Thatched Dome Hut, Wood shed and bee domestication (produces honey), Palm Thatched Mud Hut, Tiled Roof Hut, Grass Hut, Barrel Tiled Shed, Bed Shed, and A-Frame Hut, and more.

It is also plausible for someone to manufacture the following tools with only natural materials: Fire sticks, Celtic style stone axe, Stone Adze, Clay Chimney and Pots, Sling, Baskets and Stone Hatchet, Cord drill and pump drill, Bow and Arrow, Woven Bark Fiber, Forge Blower, Freshwater Prawn Trap, Termite clay Kiln and Pottery, Water powered Hammer (Monjolo), Reusable Charcoal Mound, Sandals, Simplified Blower and Furnace, Mud Bricks, Natural Draft Furnace, Clay Pottery and Stove, etc.

People could learn the following methods using only their surroundings: How to produce Lime, Producing Charcoal, Growing Sweet potatoes, Cassava, and yams; the finer points of spear throwing, making certain beans or nuts safe to eat, etc.

My honest opinion is that he is a legend, he makes Bear Grylls look like a child; he is that skilled in the ways of bending nature to his dominion. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he would be alive, but me along with most of the rest of us- would starve or die of exposure to the elements or any number of things.

My theory is that people primarily object to primitivism not out of any love or dedication to our newer technology or way of life, but simply because most people can't figure out how to survive off the grid if put into that situation and don't have the means or ability to sufficiently learn those crucial skills. If it really was viable for people to just up and live off the land and quit civilization, do you think more people would do this?

Our modern life is obviously far superior in terms of amenities, it can be said to be more soulless because we've lost our connection with nature. I think I would jump at the chance to go back to our ancestral roots and try that sort of life for myself.

If you had to choose- would you pick the relative safety of civilization knowing full well that you won't be able to survive going outside of it, OR would you sacrifice living a modern lifestyle if you got the opportunity to learn the lost art of living off the land and had everything you needed to live primitively?

Isn't YouTube and the internet against Anarcho Primitivism?
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Postby Gallia- » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:55 pm

Azerbaijstan wrote:Isn't YouTube and the internet against Anarcho Primitivism?


Plant's not an anarcho-primitivist, he's just a dude.

Saiwania wrote:I think I would jump at the chance to go back to our ancestral roots and try that sort of life for myself.


Is someone holding a gun to your head and telling you you can't move to a more rural part of your country to make mud huts in your backyard?
Last edited by Gallia- on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Saiwania » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:58 pm

I've been thinking that not everyone enjoys the fruits of civilization as it is anyways, there are a lot of homeless people for example.

Do you think those people could benefit if they were able to survive off of only what can be found in nature. Hmm? It seems better from my perspective, than begging for charity or being trapped into wage slavery.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Taihei Tengoku » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:59 pm

The fact that you are not building huts and posting on Nationstates General about huts instead reveals your preferences towards technology.
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Postby United Mercenary Firms » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:01 pm

Come back and tell me about the merits of going primitive when you're ready to give up your smartphone, computer, Wi-Fi, and most importantly NationStates.
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Postby Chill beats LLC » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:03 pm

I agree anprim-ism is a bit stupid, but so is "haha i see you posted you argument from technology so everything you say is now wrong 8) ;) "
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:03 pm

You can't halt the march of progress. Someone will always move humanity forward. If western society wants to implode with stupid self destructive ideology, then China or the remanent of western society who have kept their sanity will continue to advance, not regress.
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Postby Bombadil » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:04 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:The fact that you are not building huts and posting on Nationstates General about huts instead reveals your preferences towards technology.


I didn't see the OP stating this was their committed belief and we should all live this way so kind of an odd comment to make.

I'd be happy with a mix, I quite like air conditioning, refrigeration and the internet. I'd be happy to have a series of solar panels strung along the equator but then a return to living off the land. I think tasers would allow us to essentially live with nature perfectly fine.

Having said that it really depends on aliens.. if they exist then I guess we need to continue with technology to ensure our future survival.. if they don't then happy to live more in tune with nature and return to a simpler life.
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:06 pm

Saiwania wrote:I've been thinking that not everyone enjoys the fruits of civilization as it is anyways, there are a lot of homeless people for example.

Do you think those people could benefit if they were able to survive off of only what can be found in nature. Hmm? It seems better from my perspective, than begging for charity or being trapped into wage slavery.

I'm no fan of civilization, but you're deluding yourself if you think that significant populations of people can live a Mesolithic lifestyle in today's world.

Last time I tried living primitively I got fined by the DNR and almost shot by a rancher. Because apparently "hunt aurochs with eagle feather arrow" is not allowed anymore.
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Postby Chill beats LLC » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:06 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:The fact that you are not building huts and posting on Nationstates General about huts instead reveals your preferences towards technology.


I didn't see the OP stating this was their committed belief and we should all live this way so kind of an odd comment to make.

I'd be happy with a mix, I quite like air conditioning, refrigeration and the internet. I'd be happy to have a series of solar panels strung along the equator but then a return to living off the land. I think tasers would allow us to essentially live with nature perfectly fine.

Having said that it really depends on aliens.. if they exist then I guess we need to continue with technology to ensure our future survival.. if they don't then happy to live more in tune with nature and return to a simpler life.

Not to derail a thread, but who says aliens would be more advanced than us? Odds are, any alien life in our galaxy probably isn't even multi-celled, let alone advanced enough to invade and obliterate us. Okay, alien rant done, continue with primitivism.
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:09 pm

Gallia- wrote:Is someone holding a gun to your head and telling you you can't move to a more rural part of your country to make mud huts in your backyard?


Well, it simply isn't viable in most cases. There are certain zoning, property, and land ownership laws to contend with depending on where you are. The Australian who knows how to do all of this, has a real job and only does this as a hobby and presumably owns the land he does all of this on. Even so, he is incredibly talented and every bit of his content is sure to fascinate. It is stuff that has real utility in a survival context.

I will freely admit that I can't do any of it. I'd fare quite miserably compared to them.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bombadil » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:15 pm

Chill beats LLC wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
I didn't see the OP stating this was their committed belief and we should all live this way so kind of an odd comment to make.

I'd be happy with a mix, I quite like air conditioning, refrigeration and the internet. I'd be happy to have a series of solar panels strung along the equator but then a return to living off the land. I think tasers would allow us to essentially live with nature perfectly fine.

Having said that it really depends on aliens.. if they exist then I guess we need to continue with technology to ensure our future survival.. if they don't then happy to live more in tune with nature and return to a simpler life.

Not to derail a thread, but who says aliens would be more advanced than us? Odds are, any alien life in our galaxy probably isn't even multi-celled, let alone advanced enough to invade and obliterate us. Okay, alien rant done, continue with primitivism.


I swear to god NSG picks up on the most random points sometimes.. the assumption is obviously that they are as or more advanced than us. Certainly if they're over here then they definitely are. Now I'm as much of the belief that it's extremely unlikely there's any aliens anywhere near us yet even if there are any as complex in the universe.

My point is simply that I don't see much need for a lot of things we have in this world and probably prefer we see ourselves as one with nature and this world, to live sustainably for both. My only objection to that would be aliens, if they existed.
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Postby United Mercenary Firms » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:17 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Gallia- wrote:Is someone holding a gun to your head and telling you you can't move to a more rural part of your country to make mud huts in your backyard?


Well, it simply isn't viable in most cases. There are certain zoning, property and land ownership laws to contend with depending on where you are.


You know, this post got me thinking. I'm not inclined to go back to a primitive lifestyle, but if I were I know just the place to do it. A close relative of mine owns a property in the one of the most rural counties in his state. Very Walden Pond esque and isolated. There is no power, no running water, just an old hunting cabin that is currently habitable but needs a ton of work for permanent or semi-permanent habitation. Assuming I had a local job that could cover my gas, I could negotiate some dirt cheap rent to stay there and live like Thoreau.

Do you have any friends or relatives who own property in a rural area and would be willing to sell or lease you a similar setup on generous terms?
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:17 pm

Chill beats LLC wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
I didn't see the OP stating this was their committed belief and we should all live this way so kind of an odd comment to make.

I'd be happy with a mix, I quite like air conditioning, refrigeration and the internet. I'd be happy to have a series of solar panels strung along the equator but then a return to living off the land. I think tasers would allow us to essentially live with nature perfectly fine.

Having said that it really depends on aliens.. if they exist then I guess we need to continue with technology to ensure our future survival.. if they don't then happy to live more in tune with nature and return to a simpler life.

Not to derail a thread, but who says aliens would be more advanced than us? Odds are, any alien life in our galaxy probably isn't even multi-celled, let alone advanced enough to invade and obliterate us. Okay, alien rant done, continue with primitivism.

Whoever comes to the other is probably more advanced. Back to topic indeed!

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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:18 pm

Savages can, must, and will be conquered by civilized peoples. That is their one and only destiny. :)
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:19 pm

You can still like and want to live in civilization while knowing how to do such things.
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Postby Cetacea » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:30 pm

The greatest (and possibly only) advantage of Primitivism is that it is a move from our current economy based on consumerist dependency towards producer-lead interdependence ie everyone knows how to make something for themselves and so is no longer dependent on merely consuming the products of others. It could be that we are able to build our own shelter, or have food security by growing our own fruit and bottling our own jam. It could be that we are generating our own power. Trade is still possible within such a system, but its a trade in real products and services not in promises and speculation.

You also get secondary benefits or exercise and better environment care.

Nonetheless, I still want my Netflix, my Fridge and Internet surfing

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Postby Azerbaijstan » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:34 pm

Chill beats LLC wrote:I agree anprim-ism is a bit stupid, but so is "haha i see you posted you argument from technology so everything you say is now wrong 8) ;) "

It isn't stupid he's trying to convince others to abandon technology yet he is using technology to promote his stance.
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:37 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:You can still like and want to live in civilization while knowing how to do such things.


I'm just no good at acquiring money via employment through social networking connections, education, or entrepreneurship. If I can't do well in a city, I just wonder- how can I go wrong by being self sufficient in this way, IF I were able to? All I maybe have to look forward to by staying civilized, is eviction or whatever.

I think the sweet spot for me is learning all of this stuff and later being able to charge an affordable and fair rate for "survival courses" to teach people who're genuinely interested in this sort of stuff. Maybe then I could fare just as well as other people, as a suburban to urban resident. I just know that capitalism can be a drag, but communism or socialism probably isn't the answer either.
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Reikoku
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Postby Reikoku » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:40 pm

Anarcho-primitivism is inherently contradictory. The 18th century writer Andō Shōeki, one of the few people who could be actually be called one, was forced to conclude that his utopian society would require a headman and the death penalty in order to enforce some semblance of law. There is certainly a lot we can learn from the resourcefulness and vitality of the past which can revitalize the present, but we shouldn't ignore the benefits of modern civilization, as well as the drawbacks of primitive life.

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Postby Zanera » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:27 am

Hm, it might be very inspiring for me to get a tan from the sun instead of a computer screen, but then again all I need to do is go outside for twenty minutes so maybe I'll stay in an advanced hut that's not made from mud, hay, and sticks, and then walk out of it sometimes strictly out of my own volition. Maybe I won't go primitive like generations and generations and generations before me because to me, that kind of sucks. I'm sure a lot of other people would also like advanced housing instead of mud huts as well.

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