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South Africa: Land Seizure, Plight of the Boers

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Kramanica
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South Africa: Land Seizure, Plight of the Boers

Postby Kramanica » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:38 pm

Their parliament did, to be exact.

Secondary source for those who don't like RT.
The South African parliament voted on Tuesday in favor of a motion seeking to change the constitution to allow white-owned land expropriation without compensation.

The motion, which was brought by Julius Malema – the leader of the radical Marxist opposition party, the Economic Freedom Fighters – passed by a wide margin of 241 votes to 83 against.

Several parties – the Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Cope and the African Christian Democratic Party – did not support the motion. The matter has been referred to the parliament’s Constitutional Review Committee, which must report back by August 30.

“The time for reconciliation is over. Now is the time for justice,” Malema told the parliament. “We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land.”

South Africa has a population of over 50 million people. According to a 2017 government audit, white people own 72 percent of farmland.

Last week, South Africa’s new president, Cyril Ramaphosa, pledged to return the lands owned by white farmers since the 1600s to the black citizens of the country. He added that food production and security must be preserved.

The official opposition Democratic Alliance party (DA) has criticized the motion, saying it will undermine property rights and scare off potential investors.

The DA’s Thandeka Mbabama told the parliament that expropriation without compensation was a way to divert attention from the failure by successive ANC-led (African National Congress) governments.

“It is shocking that at the current rate it will take 35 years to finalize (land) restitution claims lodged before 1998,” said Mbabama, who is deputy shadow minister for rural development and land reform.

It’s been more than two decades since the end of apartheid in the 1990s, and the ruling ANC party is still trying to tackle racial disparities in land ownership in South Africa.

The president of farmers’ group the Transvaal Agricultural Union, Louis Meintjes, warned the country risks going down the same route as Zimbabwe, which plunged into famine after a government-sanctioned purge of white farmers in the 2000s.

“Where in the world has expropriation without compensation coupled to the waste of agricultural land, resulted in foreign confidence, economic growth and increased food production?” Meintjes said, as cited by Australia’s news.com.au.

“If Mr Ramaphosa is set on creating an untenable situation, he should actively create circumstances which will promote famine. His promise to expropriate land without compensation sows the seed for revolution. Expropriation without compensation is theft.”

This is just truly, blatantly terrible. Seizing the land of white farmers certainly worked well in Zimbabwe, didn't it? The oppression that the black majority in South Africa has faced doesn't give them the right to seize the land of white farmers simply because it was taken from them 400 years ago, and all this does is demonstrate how quickly South Africa is declining. In the long run, if the constitution is amended to allow this it will almost certainly hurt the South African economy and, if Zimbabwe is any indication, it will also lead to starvation. So this is really nothing more than act of racist and short-sighted stupidity.

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Last edited by Farnhamia on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited the title to generalize it after merging in a new thread on a documentary on the "plight of the Boers"
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Postby Likar » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:39 pm

First Zimbabwe now this... GOD DANG SON!
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:40 pm

Well that’s dumb
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Postby Canstan II » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:41 pm

Can't wait for SA to go down the shithole even more.

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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:43 pm

A really bad move that’ll only serve to make things worse
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:45 pm

I heard that Haiti simply sold them the "shithole" status, and they're working on keeping it.
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:45 pm

We will see how this plays out. Land distribution is a good first step to empowering the underclasses and mitigating inequality, but unless it's redistributed to poor farmers, or nationalized, it could well just fall into the hands of black businessmen and billionaires, and you're back to square one. I didn't like Zuma and I don't like Ramaphosa, so I'm pretty skeptical of the ANC's intentions. Still, the status quo is not tenable, so change is a move in the right direction.
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:47 pm

MERIZoC wrote:We will see how this plays out. Land distribution is a good first step to empowering the underclasses and mitigating inequality, but unless it's redistributed to poor farmers, or nationalized, it could well just fall into the hands of black businessmen and billionaires, and you're back to square one. I didn't like Zuma and I don't like Ramaphosa, so I'm pretty skeptical of the ANC's intentions. Still, the status quo is not tenable, so change is a move in the right direction.

I don't think they're foing to get anyhting out of theft.

As we say in Poland, "you can't make a whip out of shit".
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Postby Kramanica » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:51 pm

MERIZoC wrote:We will see how this plays out. Land distribution is a good first step to empowering the underclasses and mitigating inequality, but unless it's redistributed to poor farmers, or nationalized, it could well just fall into the hands of black businessmen and billionaires, and you're back to square one. I didn't like Zuma and I don't like Ramaphosa, so I'm pretty skeptical of the ANC's intentions. Still, the status quo is not tenable, so change is a move in the right direction.

If Zimbabwe is any indication it will lead to mass starvation.

It's almost like taking land from people who know how to farm and giving it to those who don't is a shit idea.

Or perhaps you'd like the Stalinist route of collectivization of farms which... also led to mass starvation.
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:51 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:We will see how this plays out. Land distribution is a good first step to empowering the underclasses and mitigating inequality, but unless it's redistributed to poor farmers, or nationalized, it could well just fall into the hands of black businessmen and billionaires, and you're back to square one. I didn't like Zuma and I don't like Ramaphosa, so I'm pretty skeptical of the ANC's intentions. Still, the status quo is not tenable, so change is a move in the right direction.

I don't think they're foing to get anyhting out of theft.

Neither do I, that's why I think it should be distributed among the masses rather than in the hands of the economic elite.
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Postby Ohioan Territory » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Can't help but think that this will be insanely detrimental to the state of South Africa. It's whatever, I suppose. Good luck to the farmers who will have their land seized.
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:53 pm

Kramanica wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:We will see how this plays out. Land distribution is a good first step to empowering the underclasses and mitigating inequality, but unless it's redistributed to poor farmers, or nationalized, it could well just fall into the hands of black businessmen and billionaires, and you're back to square one. I didn't like Zuma and I don't like Ramaphosa, so I'm pretty skeptical of the ANC's intentions. Still, the status quo is not tenable, so change is a move in the right direction.

If Zimbabwe is any indication it will lead to mass starvation.

It's almost like taking land from people who know how to farm and giving it to those who don't is a shit idea.

Or perhaps you'd like the Stalinist route of collectivization of farms which... also led to mass starvation.

Who could've thought you need people with farming knowledge to farm?
MERIZoC wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:I don't think they're foing to get anyhting out of theft.

Neither do I, that's why I think it should be distributed among the masses rather than in the hands of the economic elite stolen from people who earned the money to buy it and know how to use it.

Fixed.
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:54 pm

Kramanica wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:We will see how this plays out. Land distribution is a good first step to empowering the underclasses and mitigating inequality, but unless it's redistributed to poor farmers, or nationalized, it could well just fall into the hands of black businessmen and billionaires, and you're back to square one. I didn't like Zuma and I don't like Ramaphosa, so I'm pretty skeptical of the ANC's intentions. Still, the status quo is not tenable, so change is a move in the right direction.

If Zimbabwe is any indication it will lead to mass starvation.

It's almost like taking land from people who know how to farm and giving it to those who don't is a shit idea.

Or perhaps you'd like the Stalinist route of collectivization of farms which... also led to mass starvation.

Yes, the whites are doing such a good job at managing things, that's why Western Cape is in a water crisis.

Really now, what a ridiculous and racist line of argument. "The blacks don't know how to farm", give me a break. Pure supposition.
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Postby Canstan II » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:54 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:I don't think they're foing to get anyhting out of theft.

Neither do I, that's why I think it should be distributed among the masses rather than in the hands of the economic elite.

Would this include landless/poor white and Asian South Africans?

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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Neither do I, that's why I think it should be distributed among the masses rather than in the hands of the economic elite stolen from people who earned the money to buy it and know how to use it.

Fixed.

You have an interesting conception of the word "earned"
Last edited by MERIZoC on Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kramanica » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:55 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Kramanica wrote:If Zimbabwe is any indication it will lead to mass starvation.

It's almost like taking land from people who know how to farm and giving it to those who don't is a shit idea.

Or perhaps you'd like the Stalinist route of collectivization of farms which... also led to mass starvation.

Yes, the whites are doing such a good job at managing things, that's why Western Cape is in a water crisis.

Really now, what a ridiculous and racist line of argument. "The blacks don't know how to farm", give me a break. Pure supposition.

>reality is racist
Pure coincidence that mass starvation in Zimbabwe resulted from the seizure of land from white farmers.
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Postby Heidi Girl of the Alps » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:56 pm

This scenario has been played out already in Zimbabwe, USSR, China, Vietnam, and effectively every country that has attempted to expropriate land on the basis of anything other than competence.

Its no surprise that it's the marxists that have proposed this and I have no doubts that the radical left's intellectuals will silently nod in approval of this action. I wonder what the media coverage will be...

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Last edited by Heidi Girl of the Alps on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:56 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Kramanica wrote:If Zimbabwe is any indication it will lead to mass starvation.

It's almost like taking land from people who know how to farm and giving it to those who don't is a shit idea.

Or perhaps you'd like the Stalinist route of collectivization of farms which... also led to mass starvation.

Yes, the whites are doing such a good job at managing things, that's why Western Cape is in a water crisis.

Really now, what a ridiculous and racist line of argument. "The blacks don't know how to farm", give me a break. Pure supposition.

A water crisis isn't anything special in a country without that much water.

Also, you're the one who said they can't farm because they're black. :)
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:57 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:
Fixed.

You have an interesting conception of the word "earned"

Someone down the line likely bought it, because farmland rarely stays in single hands for 400 years.
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Postby White Isle » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:57 pm

And as a result its populace will starve, just like that of Zimbabwe. If they would simply take a look at their neighbors, they might realize that Africans generally don't create successful societies when left to their own devices.
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Postby Kramanica » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:You have an interesting conception of the word "earned"

Someone down the line likely bought it, because farmland rarely stays in single hands for 400 years.

White farmers are immortal. Have you not heard?
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:00 pm

Canstan II wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Neither do I, that's why I think it should be distributed among the masses rather than in the hands of the economic elite.

Would this include landless/poor white and Asian South Africans?

Yes, though both those ethnic groups tend to be quite wealthy in comparison to black South Africans. My issue with ANC is that it cynically utilizes black nationalism couched in the rhetoric of populism to advance a neoliberal and anti-worker agenda, often rife with corruption. I'm a communist, I believe in empowering the working class and bringing down the ruling one. This is a view that transcends race, but it's also very important to understand how racial dynamics relate to class ones.
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:01 pm

Kramanica wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Yes, the whites are doing such a good job at managing things, that's why Western Cape is in a water crisis.

Really now, what a ridiculous and racist line of argument. "The blacks don't know how to farm", give me a break. Pure supposition.

>reality is racist
Pure coincidence that mass starvation in Zimbabwe resulted from the seizure of land from white farmers.

Even assuming I accepted your causal mechanism for Zimbabwean economic misfortune, it's not relevant. This is South Africa.
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Postby Canstan II » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:01 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Canstan II wrote:Would this include landless/poor white and Asian South Africans?

Yes, though both those ethnic groups tend to be quite wealthy in comparison to black South Africans. My issue with ANC is that it cynically utilizes black nationalism couched in the rhetoric of populism to advance a neoliberal and anti-worker agenda, often rife with corruption. I'm a communist, I believe in empowering the working class and bringing down the ruling one. This is a view that transcends race, but it's also very important to understand how racial dynamics relate to class ones.

Well at least you're consistent. I can respect that, at the least.

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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:You have an interesting conception of the word "earned"

Someone down the line likely bought it, because farmland rarely stays in single hands for 400 years.

"Bought it"

Do you have any conception of what happened in Africa 100-200 years ago? Have you taken a history course in your life?
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