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Beta 005: Black Market

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[violet]
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Beta 005: Black Market

Postby [violet] » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:18 pm

Beta 005b: Black Market: Raise cap, fix scaling, reweight

Proposed Change: (1) Increase maximum recordable size of Black Market by losing one significant digit of precision. Most nations will show a very minor difference due to rounding; nations with current Black Market sizes of 9,999,999,990,000,000, may show large increases as they are able to display their true scores. (2) Correct a mathematical error causing some nations with Black Markets that are a small percentage of their total GDP to exhibit opposite-than-expected results under certain conditions. Those nations can show a fairly large change in percentage terms (around -50%) although the effect in absolute terms is fairly small. (3) Increase the importance of Corruption, Law & Order funding, and Economic Freedom; decrease the importance of Political Freedom.
Last edited by [violet] on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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He Qixin
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New York Times Democracy

Postby He Qixin » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:44 pm

I support.
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Nouveau Yathrib
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Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:44 pm

Proposed Change: (3) Increase the importance of Corruption, Law & Order funding, and Economic Freedom; decrease the importance of Political Freedom.


Strongly support this change. My puppets are unfairly penalized with skyrocketing black markets when they go from Medium to Low political freedom levels.
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Trotterdam
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:06 am

I would really like there to be a Black Market per Capita stat, like there is for other economic stats.

[violet] wrote:Proposed Change: (1) Increase maximum recordable size of Black Market by losing one significant digit of precision.
What kind of coding voodoo makes it necessary? Are you limited to a certain number of fixed-precision digits, so that adding more digits on the most-significant side requires knocking off digits on the least-significant side? If so, wouldn't you still run into trouble once nations hit a value of 10 times the current cap? Or is there a more convoluted reason behind this?

[violet] wrote:(3) Increase the importance of Corruption, Law & Order funding, and Economic Freedom; decrease the importance of Political Freedom.
Makes sense. Of course, Political Freedom affects Corruption, but I don't see how the black market would depend on Political Freedom except via Corruption.

Certain policy flags that have you banning goods should also affect the black market, though that may be included under Economic Freedom.

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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:55 pm

Trotterdam wrote:Are you limited to a certain number of fixed-precision digits, so that adding more digits on the most-significant side requires knocking off digits on the least-significant side? If so, wouldn't you still run into trouble once nations hit a value of 10 times the current cap?

Yep. But that will never ever happen.

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Pencil Sharpeners 2
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Pencil Sharpeners 2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:51 pm

Trotterdam wrote:I would really like there to be a Black Market per Capita stat, like there is for other economic stats.

That would be nice, though as someone who's only been around a few years, I am biased against population-based stats :P
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New Mushroom Kingdom
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby New Mushroom Kingdom » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:33 pm

I support this change, if only because it gives a nice 50% boost to my market's size. (Was the text supposed to say -50% or ~50%, by the way?)
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Caelapes
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Caelapes » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:38 pm

Trotterdam wrote:I would really like there to be a Black Market per Capita stat, like there is for other economic stats.

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Dolor Mortis
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Postby Dolor Mortis » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:31 pm

That would be good on nations who wish to increase or decrease Black market by increasing law&order.
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Bears Armed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:16 am

A drop of 94.8%? That's a lot... Probably a lot more accurate too, though, considering how few things that people would actually want are illegal here.
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Mingulay Isle
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mingulay Isle » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:22 am

Bears Armed wrote:A drop of 94.8%? That's a lot... Probably a lot more accurate too, though, considering how few things that people would actually want are illegal here.

They're all just moving over here.

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Fauxia
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Anarchy

Postby Fauxia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:01 pm

Bears Armed wrote:A drop of 94.8%? That's a lot... Probably a lot more accurate too, though, considering how few things that people would actually want are illegal here.
As a percentage of your GDP though, it’s already tiny.

Still, I love this change. The cap was annoying, even though I never reached it on any of my 10 million nations
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Alemputo
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Founded: Dec 16, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Alemputo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:38 am

I definitely agree with this proposal, because real nations require more data to be sufficient at handling affairs. Corruption should be more important because with a lot it could have negative connotations on the overall political and civil freedoms. Good cause... Good cause...

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Vulturret
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Postby Vulturret » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:44 am

This will impact some of my nations in a positive manner, I support this.
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Merconitonitopia
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Postby Merconitonitopia » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:59 am

>Increase the importance of ... Law & Order funding
yet still, without fail, my black market increases under this beta despite top 13% law enforcement. really gets the noggin joggin.
Caelapes wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:I would really like there to be a Black Market per Capita stat, like there is for other economic stats.

yes lord say it louder for the people in the back

*clears throat - HE WANTS A BLACK MARKET PER CAPITA STAT, LIKE OTHER ECONOMIC STATS
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Koem Kab
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Koem Kab » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:39 am

How come the the beta when it was released, i'd get a 15k boost in average income, now I have only an 8k boost.

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:15 pm

For me, the change would lead to a 0.01% decrease in economic output. I can live with that.
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Koem Kab
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Founded: Dec 09, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Koem Kab » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 am

Alright, something doesn't make sense here. I answered issue 648.3 and my average income went up 3000, which was from the black market. Corruption, Law Enforcement, Economic Freedom and Political Freedom weren't affected, so this issue shouldn't be affected by this beta, but in the beta, average income was still 510.7k before and after the issue was answered. If the cause of the black market increase should be unaffected by this beta, why will this beta make that issue (and other issues), remove the black market increase for an unknown reason.

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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:00 pm

Koem Kab wrote:Alright, something doesn't make sense here. I answered issue 648.3 and my average income went up 3000, which was from the black market. Corruption, Law Enforcement, Economic Freedom and Political Freedom weren't affected, so this issue shouldn't be affected by this beta, but in the beta, average income was still 510.7k before and after the issue was answered.

You mean you checked the beta page before and then again after answering the issue? It would be a little strange for the beta figure to remain exactly the same, since this issue did touch several factors that feed into it. I can't see what your beta number would have been before you answered that issue, but there were a lot of effects.

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Koem Kab
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Koem Kab » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:41 am

[violet] wrote:
Koem Kab wrote:Alright, something doesn't make sense here. I answered issue 648.3 and my average income went up 3000, which was from the black market. Corruption, Law Enforcement, Economic Freedom and Political Freedom weren't affected, so this issue shouldn't be affected by this beta, but in the beta, average income was still 510.7k before and after the issue was answered.

You mean you checked the beta page before and then again after answering the issue? It would be a little strange for the beta figure to remain exactly the same, since this issue did touch several factors that feed into it. I can't see what your beta number would have been before you answered that issue, but there were a lot of effects.


Yep, I checked it before and after answering issues. Well it didnt exactly stay the same, but the effect was tiny, less than $50 change to the stat in beta, which seems odd considering the 4 stats affected by the beta werent changed answering the issue, but the beta changed the effect of average income in the issue from 3k to almost nothing for a reason i don't understand. The beta seems to be meddling with another thing that affects average income not listed in the beta description.

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TuPeLoPe
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Corporate Police State

Postby TuPeLoPe » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:23 pm

is there a way to see what ur world ranking will be after the beta or do u have to wait for it to hit live

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Koem Kab
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Founded: Dec 09, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Koem Kab » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:28 pm

Tupelope wrote:is there a way to see what ur world ranking will be after the beta or do u have to wait for it to hit live

You will have to wait.

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VoVoDoCo
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Anarchy

Postby VoVoDoCo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:34 pm

Every single one of these beta's so far have done nothing but hurt my stats.

Violet, whatever I did to you I'm SO SORRY FORGIVE ME. PLEASE CEASE AND DESIST.
lol

Are all my industries going down a result of the rescaling, so in the grand scheme of things not going down at all? Or does this beta actually hurt my industries?

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[violet]
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Founded: Antiquity

Postby [violet] » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:05 pm

Vovodoco wrote:Every single one of these beta's so far have done nothing but hurt my stats.

Violet, whatever I did to you I'm SO SORRY FORGIVE ME. PLEASE CEASE AND DESIST.
lol

Are all my industries going down a result of the rescaling, so in the grand scheme of things not going down at all? Or does this beta actually hurt my industries?

It specifically hurts you due to this part: "(3) Increase the importance of Corruption, Law & Order funding, and Economic Freedom; decrease the importance of Political Freedom."

Sorry Vovodoco. If it's any consolation, it's only a 0.2% hit to Economic Output, and you're looking at a bigger gain than that from Beta 010.

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Koem Kab
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Founded: Dec 09, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Koem Kab » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:24 pm

It looks like the beta removes all other factors that can affect black market. Is this intended? If so, why isn't it mentioned?

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