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Anti Capitalist Discussion Thread I: Seize the toothbrushes!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What form of Anti Capitalist economic system do you support? (More than one poll option)

State/Central Planning (Socialism)
39
15%
Decentralised Planning (Socialism)
33
13%
Market Socialism
38
15%
Mutualism (Anarchist Market Socialism)
19
8%
Syndicalism (Anarchist or state based)
43
17%
Higher Stage Communism
24
10%
Distributism
18
7%
Other (Please State)
20
8%
Marxist-Leninist-Obamaism
12
5%
Primitivism
6
2%
 
Total votes : 252

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Dejanic
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Anti Capitalist Discussion Thread I: Seize the toothbrushes!

Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:28 pm

The Anti Capitalist Discussion Thread
Vol. I


Welcome to the Anti Capitalist Discussion Thread (ACDT), a thread for Anti Capitalists of all shapes and sizes to discuss issues and matters related to Socialism, and Anti-Capitalism. This is a thread designed as space for those who oppose Capitalism and support its abolition, whether they be revolutionary or reformist, Marxist or Anarchist! Whilst the vast majority of Anti-Capitalists are Leftist, right wing Anti-Capitalists like distributionists are more than welcome! If anyone wishes to learn more about anti-Capitalism, then this is also the place to ask! This thread is not designed to be a Socialist vs Capitalist thread. For more broad Leftist discussion , or for those of a pro-Capitalist nature who wish to debate general Leftism, the LWDT is available.

Typical topics that may be discussed include.

-Related Anti-Capitalist Philosophy.
-Anti Capitalist Literature and thinkers.
-What does the future hold?
-Debates on the ins and outs of specific Anti Capitalist ideologies. Leninism or Trotskyism? Socialism or Distributism?
-Debates on relevant Social issues and how they should be handled under a post Capitalist society?
-Reform or revolution? What methods should be followed and how should Capitalism be abolished?
-Memes.

A poll has been added with varying different options as to how you may propose a post-Capitalist society is organised. I've allowed more than one option as its common anti-Capitalists will support more than one (A Leninist will support State Planning as a transition to higher stage Communism for example).

101 guide to Socialism/Anti Capitalism
Please read if you're a noob and are here to learn


Many misconceptions exist about various Anti-Capitalist movements, especially Socialism which is the largest and includes Communism. A good FAQ is this one which explains some of the basics. Here are some basic definitions.

Socialism: An umbrella term used to describe social ownership of the means of production. Social ownership can include common ownership, state ownership or collective ownership. "Socialism" can also refer to an intermediate and transitional form of society between capitalism and communism featuring a Dictatorship of the Proletariat (sometimes referred to as "lower" or "the first phase of" communism.


Communism: A term describing a stateless, classless, moneyless society with common ownership of the means of production. "Communism" can also describe the revolutionary movement to create such a society.

Capitalism: An economic system and ideology based upon private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets.In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investment are determined by the owners of the means of production in financial and capital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.
Last edited by Dejanic on Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:32 pm

Any other forms of Anti Capitalism I may of missed (right or left) please say I'll add it in.
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Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:39 pm

I have distributism sympathies and strongly support unions, so I align with anticapitalists on many concerns, but when it comes down to it I love God and strongly value rule of law, which anticapitalism broadly has opposed. I also strongly oppose egalitarianism (except before the law), ex post facto laws and unmixed democracy.
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:42 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:I have distributism sympathies and strongly support unions, so I align with anticapitalists on many concerns, but when it comes down to it I love God and strongly value rule of law, which anticapitalism broadly has opposed. I also strongly oppose egalitarianism (except before the law), ex post facto laws and unmixed democracy.

I have respect for distributionism in that distributionists at the very least can understand the moral and economical misgivings of Capitalism, and have a system that attempts to treat such misgivings. Whilst I'd rather go a step further and abolish Capital completely, I'd certainly rather live under a distributionist society than a free market Capitalist one.

The God part and rule of law isn't necessarily anti-thetical to Socialism. Rule of law was certainly existent under the USSR, and most early Socialist thinkers were undoubtedly Christian. It was their Christianity that largely influenced their adoption of Utopian Socialism.
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Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:59 pm

Dejanic wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I have distributism sympathies and strongly support unions, so I align with anticapitalists on many concerns, but when it comes down to it I love God and strongly value rule of law, which anticapitalism broadly has opposed. I also strongly oppose egalitarianism (except before the law), ex post facto laws and unmixed democracy.

I have respect for distributionism in that distributionists at the very least can understand the moral and economical misgivings of Capitalism, and have a system that attempts to treat such misgivings. Whilst I'd rather go a step further and abolish Capital completely, I'd certainly rather live under a distributionist society than a free market Capitalist one.

The God part and rule of law isn't necessarily anti-thetical to Socialism. Rule of law was certainly existent under the USSR, and most early Socialist thinkers were undoubtedly Christian. It was their Christianity that largely influenced their adoption of Utopian Socialism.

No, it wasn't existent in the USSR, the state wad above the law.

In olden times most everyone in the west was a Christian. But in practice anticapitalists have broadly behaved viciously toward God, both in writing and action. Though that doesn't mean capitalism likes God, capitalism mostly ignores him really as he isn't a consumer or a product. It also doesn't mean monarchs haven't opposed God: Peter and Catherine the Greats and Henvry VIII all attacked God, as did ancient Roman emperors, even Christian ones. But anticapitalism tends to be particularly hostile.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:02 pm

On self tests I often score as Anarcho Syndicalists, but I have never seen this work well in practice.

I was a member of an intentional religious community for four years; we shared all our income, and jointed provided for food, shelter, and medical care. On the plus side, we never had to worry about bills. On the minus side, it was hard to have anything for yourself, like a 6 pack of Coke in the fridge (we had a stipend for this, and for clothing and entertainment); people looked at everything like it was common property.
Last edited by Pope Joan on Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kubra » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:03 pm

Splitters, LWDT doesn't need you anyways!
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Dagashi Shoujo
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Postby Dagashi Shoujo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Most of the figures I like to read are, mostly, anti-capitalist right-wingers (Spengler, Mishima, Marinetti, etc.) but haven't been convinced that they, or their left-wing counterparts, have offered a viable alternative to capitalism.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:08 pm

Real geniuses conduct state planning.
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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:28 pm

My views on economics are mostly influenced by syndicalism, mutualism, and distributism.

The Parkus Empire wrote:I have distributism sympathies and strongly support unions, so I align with anticapitalists on many concerns, but when it comes down to it I love God and strongly value rule of law, which anticapitalism broadly has opposed. I also strongly oppose egalitarianism (except before the law), ex post facto laws and unmixed democracy.


I also support rule of law as long as said law is based on at least Abrahamic morality (if not muslim in specific), and the overall welfare of the people and their dignity. If society isn't suffienctly reformable or degenerates to a point were it becomes untransparent, deceptive, and goes astray from God's laws....violent revolution is necessary.
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Fascesia
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Postby Fascesia » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:59 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Real geniuses conduct state planning.

Well, you really have to be a real genius if you want to plan the whole f*cking economy and make it work efficiently
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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:10 pm

Kubra wrote:Splitters, LWDT doesn't need you anyways!

I founded the original LWDT so I'm not against it, I just feel this thread can work alongside it, along with the Libertarian thread and the RWDT. Tbf LWDT has more right wingers on it than Leftists these days and a lot of the "Leftists" who post on the LWDT are Liberals who despise Socialism and adore Capitalism, this thread is more of a safe space for anti-Capitalists (regardless of tendency) to discuss internal topics, as opposed to a generalised debate thread.

I'll still post on the LWDT frequently.
Last edited by Dejanic on Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post-Post Leftist | Anarcho-Blairite | Pol Pot Sympathiser

Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:12 pm

Fascesia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Real geniuses conduct state planning.

Well, you really have to be a real genius if you want to plan the whole f*cking economy and make it work efficiently

Well no one advocates for pure state planning (Juche?). From a Trot perspective there's generally a belief in state planning in vital sectors, with decentralised planning/workers councils in others, usually organised alongside local lines. A mixture of centralised/decentralised.
Post-Post Leftist | Anarcho-Blairite | Pol Pot Sympathiser

Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:20 pm

Fascesia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Real geniuses conduct state planning.

Well, you really have to be a real genius if you want to plan the whole f*cking economy and make it work efficiently

Image

Big brows = big brains
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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:22 pm

What's with the fondness of Brezhnev? I'm no expert on him, though generally not a fan.
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Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:25 pm

Dejanic wrote:What's with the fondness of Brezhnev? I'm no expert on him, though generally not a fan.

Led the Soviet Union at the height of its power, major Soviet military expansions, economic prosperity, etc.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:28 pm

To be honest, I would love a hybrid between a socialist and a capitalist economy. Socialist as in maybe a high tax rate to maintain the free healthcare, public transport, and healthcare. And maybe to distribute the wealth evenly. It's totally not because I am jealous of millionaires or billionaires. I'm sure that what they did in the past earns them the cash.

But... seeing Rich Kids of Instagram/Snapchat is a totally different thing, I will say that much.

At the same time, maybe a healthy dose of capitalism; not too much, but enough to drive forward innovation.
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Postby Kubra » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:30 pm

Dejanic wrote:
Kubra wrote:Splitters, LWDT doesn't need you anyways!

I founded the original LWDT so I'm not against it, I just feel this thread can work alongside it, along with the Libertarian thread and the RWDT. Tbf LWDT has more right wingers on it than Leftists these days and a lot of the "Leftists" who post on the LWDT are Liberals who despise Socialism and adore Capitalism, this thread is more of a safe space for anti-Capitalists (regardless of tendency) to discuss internal topics, as opposed to a generalised debate thread.

I'll still post on the LWDT frequently.
cmon man just run with the joke
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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:32 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Dejanic wrote:What's with the fondness of Brezhnev? I'm no expert on him, though generally not a fan.

Led the Soviet Union at the height of its power, major Soviet military expansions, economic prosperity, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation

Though I guess one could argue that Krushchevs prior reforms helped set it up.

I understood why the military expansions seemed necessary, but too many resources were spent which was short sighted, and moreover the dick waving contest did nothing for the working class within the USSR nor internationally.

I'll take him over Cappies like Khrushchev or Gorby though. He at least seemed to do what he believed was right for the USSR and for Socialism.
Post-Post Leftist | Anarcho-Blairite | Pol Pot Sympathiser

Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:32 pm

Valentine Z wrote:To be honest, I would love a hybrid between a socialist and a capitalist economy. Socialist as in maybe a high tax rate to maintain the free healthcare, public transport, and healthcare. And maybe to distribute the wealth evenly. It's totally not because I am jealous of millionaires or billionaires. I'm sure that what they did in the past earns them the cash.

But... seeing Rich Kids of Instagram/Snapchat is a totally different thing, I will say that much.

At the same time, maybe a healthy dose of capitalism; not too much, but enough to drive forward innovation.

Get the ice picks lads/ladies/non binaries.
Post-Post Leftist | Anarcho-Blairite | Pol Pot Sympathiser

Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Kubra wrote:
Dejanic wrote:I founded the original LWDT so I'm not against it, I just feel this thread can work alongside it, along with the Libertarian thread and the RWDT. Tbf LWDT has more right wingers on it than Leftists these days and a lot of the "Leftists" who post on the LWDT are Liberals who despise Socialism and adore Capitalism, this thread is more of a safe space for anti-Capitalists (regardless of tendency) to discuss internal topics, as opposed to a generalised debate thread.

I'll still post on the LWDT frequently.
cmon man just run with the joke

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Post-Post Leftist | Anarcho-Blairite | Pol Pot Sympathiser

Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:35 pm

Dejanic wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Led the Soviet Union at the height of its power, major Soviet military expansions, economic prosperity, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation

Though I guess one could argue that Krushchevs prior reforms helped set it up.

I understood why the military expansions seemed necessary, but too many resources were spent which was short sighted, and moreover the dick waving contest did nothing for the working class within the USSR nor internationally.

I'll take him over Cappies like Khrushchev or Gorby though. He at least seemed to do what he believed was right for the USSR and for Socialism.

Regardless of the stagnation, the USSR was still at the height of its economic prosperity. I wouldn't agree that too many resources were spent, actually. The Soviets spent a lot on their military, but these levels were sustainable until the collapse of the state in 1990-91.

But, yeah, Khrushchev is in large part responsible for the collapse of Soviet agriculture, so he deserves more of the blame.
Last edited by United Muscovite Nations on Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tritos Ellinikos Politismos
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Postby Tritos Ellinikos Politismos » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:36 pm

What about far right like National Socialism and Fascism? And it's not only these two, there more than a dozen of Far right ideologies that despise Communism, where are they?

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Italios
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:36 pm

Valentine Z wrote:To be honest, I would love a hybrid between a socialist and a capitalist economy.

concept: could we get a small guide that covers common misconceptions about anticapitalism in the OP so this thread doesnt get spammed with the same half-baked opinions all the time?
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Italios
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:38 pm

Tritos Ellinikos Politismos wrote:What about far right like National Socialism and Fascism? And it's not only these two, there more than a dozen of Far right ideologies that despise Communism, where are they?

Nazism is not anti-capitalist, and though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism), being against communism is usually good indicator that something is not anti-capitalist
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
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But you just said hitting your wife was acceptable

Very lightly.

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