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Stolen from driveway / citizen's arrest

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Stolen from driveway / citizen's arrest

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:21 am

Suppose someone left non-perishable food items on their driveway for easy access while going for a bike ride. (And/or for the purposes of a sting operation.) To any bystander, however, it would be impossible to tell whether they were being retrieved by someone with actual permission to retrieve them.

It might even be unclear to the person taking them.

And in turn, it would be impossible to tell whether someone snatched off the street for snatching said food items was innocent or guilty.

In such a circumstance, would it be lawful for some other cyclist; be it food owner or bystander; to drag that person downhill to the police station, with the bicycle's handlebars in one hand, and the suspect in the other? Would it be lawful for some other bystander who mistakes this dragging-downhill for a kidnapping attempt in progress to shoot the cyclist then and there?

Me, I'd go for the "if you don't know, don't touch it" angle, as you don't know if the food is poisoned anyway. Likewise, I would report an apparent kidnapper rather than just shooting him on sight, as you never know their intentions. Judging by the nature of the gun debate, I doubt I speak for popular opinion on the latter, though.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Gallade
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Postby Gallade » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:37 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
In such a circumstance, would it be lawful for some other cyclist; be it food owner or bystander; to drag that person downhill to the police station, with the bicycle's handlebars in one hand, and the suspect in the other? Would it be lawful for a bystander who mistakes this for a kidnapping attempt in progress to shoot the cyclist then and there?

No. What is and isn't a citizen's arrest varies by judiciary, but the universal guideline is detain, announce intent, use only reasonable force.

For the US in federal terms, which I'm guessing you're focusing on due to the shooting suggestion:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/citizen-s-arrest.html

Dragging isn't detaining. Shooting isn't reasonable force.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:40 am

What I don't understand is why you would get involved in the first place? Is it your food? No. Is it your driveway? No. Is it your problem? NO. So why not just ignore it?
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:45 am

Why are all these people cyclists?
He/Him

beating the devil
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Gallade
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Postby Gallade » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:55 am

Ifreann wrote:Why are all these people cyclists?

Green transport can only lead to both kleptomania and vigilantism, weren't you aware?
|| Miss me with that factional BS || RIP Dyakovo. You were a true friend, you will be forever missed. ||

Français, en guerriers magnanimes, portez ou retenez vos coups! Épargnez ces tristes victimes à regret s'armant contre nous
My TG box is for friends, not food
Feel like making a direct change rather than just bickering over crises?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:04 am

Gallade wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Why are all these people cyclists?

Green transport can only lead to both kleptomania and vigilantism, weren't you aware?

The bike lobby must be covering up the truth.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:04 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Suppose someone left non-perishable food items on their driveway for easy access while going for a bike ride. (And/or for the purposes of a sting operation.) To any bystander, however, it would be impossible to tell whether they were being retrieved by someone with actual permission to retrieve them.

It might even be unclear to the person taking them.

And in turn, it would be impossible to tell whether someone snatched off the street for snatching said food items was innocent or guilty.

In such a circumstance, would it be lawful for some other cyclist; be it food owner or bystander; to drag that person downhill to the police station, with the bicycle's handlebars in one hand, and the suspect in the other? Would it be lawful for a bystander who mistakes this for a kidnapping attempt in progress to shoot the cyclist then and there?


Exactly what in a kidnapping attempt enables passersby to kill the suspect?
By the way, what kind of utter idiot would be mistaking someone nicking foodstuffs for someone abducting a person?
May get into contact with your pusher, by the way?
Last edited by Risottia on Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:05 am

Ifreann wrote:Why are all these people cyclists?

Maybe the OP has a fetish for tyres, greasy chains and tight spandex clothing.
.

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:16 am

Since when is stealing someones lunch comparable to kidnapping?
Since when do citizens arrest petty thieves?
Since when are we ignoring reasonable suspicion.

Risottia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Why are all these people cyclists?

Maybe the OP has a fetish for tyres, greasy chains and tight spandex clothing.

That's an oddly specific fetish.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:17 am

Aclion wrote:Since when is stealing someones lunch comparable to kidnapping?
Since when do citizens arrest petty thieves?
Since when are we ignoring reasonable suspicion.


..or..

You're walking home from the shops and you notice a vehicle following you.. what the fuck.. you continue but the car continues to slowly follow you. You stop. You turn around and face the car. A man gets out and says 'what are you doing here?'. 'None of your business', you reply.

You step towards him, 'get the fuck off my back' you say. He pulls a gun, you turn to get away and he shoots you in the back.

At what point was someone wrong?
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Ifreann
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Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:18 am

Aclion wrote:Since when is stealing someones lunch comparable to kidnapping?
Since when do citizens arrest petty thieves?
Since when are we ignoring reasonable suspicion.

Risottia wrote:Maybe the OP has a fetish for tyres, greasy chains and tight spandex clothing.

That's an oddly specific fetish.

No kink shaming here.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Aclion
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Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:56 am

Ifreann wrote:That's an oddly specific fetish.

No kink shaming here.[/quote]
Who's shaming?

Bombadil wrote:
Aclion wrote:Since when is stealing someones lunch comparable to kidnapping?
Since when do citizens arrest petty thieves?
Since when are we ignoring reasonable suspicion.


..or..

You're walking home from the shops and you notice a vehicle following you.. what the fuck.. you continue but the car continues to slowly follow you. You stop. You turn around and face the car. A man gets out and says 'what are you doing here?'. 'None of your business', you reply.

You step towards him, 'get the fuck off my back' you say. He pulls a gun, you turn to get away and he shoots you in the back.

At what point was someone wrong?

Both are dumbasses but only one person has broken the law.

But where does the sandwich fall into this?
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Founded: Apr 05, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:16 am

Ifreann wrote:Why are all these people cyclists?

It's based on a dream I had last night, and wasn't sure how to modify it to be more general.

Also, just to clarify, it's not the food thieves who are mistaken for kidnappers, it's the people personally trying to drag the food thieves (and/or alleged food thieves) to the police station who are mistaken for them.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.


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