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If there is a God, Why does Evil exist?

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Contamenesia
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If there is a God, Why does Evil exist?

Postby Contamenesia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:56 am

This is no doubt a question many of us have had, and most have no answer to. But after mulling it over, the answer seems quite simple: Because Free Will exists. Now, before i can explain why, let us break this down practically. At the primal level, what is Free Will? The ability to choose for one's self. However there is no Free Will if a Choice has no impact. For example, if you were asked to pick a color for something, but no matter what you pick has no impact whatsoever, not on you, the object, nor those around you, and does not influence anything for good or ill even in the most minute of ways, not even in the way or reasoning for why you picked it, not even for "just because i felt like it", then it is not truly Free Will, but merely a facade. To simplify this, if all choices you have available are all neutral, and lead the same path the same way, then you aren't really choosing. A Choice must have impact in order for it to identify as an act of free will, even if that choice is to not act.

However in order for a Choice to have impact, it must have favorable and less favorable outcomes, regardless of how minute. From the first Favorable Outcome comes the beginnings of the Concept of Good, and the Less Favorable Outcome grows over time as more are decided into the Concept of Wrong. Wrong itself isn't evil, however as many varying unfavorable ways and events come to be labled as Wrong, as Wrong grows as a concept, thus comes the beginning of the Concept of Evil. Simply by making the act of Choosing, with the choice having impact, the natural order of the universe. As more choices are made, so do both Concepts of Good and Evil. Neither exist with out Free Will.

It is known by many Christians and Jews that God gave mankind one gift to stand out from the animals, and that was Free Will. Free Will empowers Choice, and Choice begats the concepts of Good and Evil, Order and Chaos. You cannot have Good and Evil without Free Will, and you cannot have Free Will that does not begat these concepts, else you have no Free Will.

This Analysis does not make Evil good nor okay. Evil is still Evil. Nor does this Analysis support the idea of ridding Evil by ridding the world of Free Will, as that is incorrect as well.

The Time before Free Will was not Evil, for there was no such thing, no oppressions, and no thoughts or worries for such things. However the Removal of Free Will is Evil, as now it exists, and is known, and experienced. To try and Remove it is an Act of Evil, and can be deemed so since Free Will exists. It can also be deemed not so, but this too is because of Free Will. Regardless of the Argument, The Presence of Evil does not disprove the existence of a God. Why does Evil exist? So that you may have Free Will, the ability to choice your path, and that it be your own, with its own impact, cascading across the paths of others in unpredictable ways.

This is my thought on the subject, and i hope i shed some light on the matter. if not, then feel free to comment otherwise, it is, of course, a matter of your own Free Will.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:18 pm

Because he doesn't care. At least, that's my god
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:20 pm

There isn't a god. Assuming there is though, I would imagine evil exists to fulfill the purpose of free will. As humans are inherently flawed beings, a world were they have their own way will inevitable have a great deal of evil and suffering. For there to be no evil there would need to be no creatures capable of creating evil, which woudl mean either no humanity, or humanity without free will. God still doesn't exist though.
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Contamenesia
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Postby Contamenesia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:20 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Because he doesn't care. At least, that's my god


i do not think whether he cares or not is really a factor, but rather a misunderstanding of concepts.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:22 pm

Contamenesia wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Because he doesn't care. At least, that's my god


i do not think whether he cares or not is really a factor, but rather a misunderstanding of concepts.

Why isn't it a factor? An apathetic god would allow evil to exist simply because it doesn't care enough to avert it.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Contamenesia
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Postby Contamenesia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:24 pm

Kenmoria wrote:There isn't a god. Assuming there is though, I would imagine evil exists to fulfill the purpose of free will. As humans are inherently flawed beings, a world were they have their own way will inevitable have a great deal of evil and suffering. For there to be no evil there would need to be no creatures capable of creating evil, which woudl mean either no humanity, or humanity without free will. God still doesn't exist though.


Regardless of whether or not he does, the presence of Evil itself simply is not enough to disprove such a being's existence.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:25 pm

Contamenesia wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Because he doesn't care. At least, that's my god


i do not think whether he cares or not is really a factor, but rather a misunderstanding of concepts.

That's literally why though. Tengri only intervenes when he wants, either out of pity, respect or whatever other reasons a god would intervene
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Contamenesia
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Postby Contamenesia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:26 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Contamenesia wrote:
i do not think whether he cares or not is really a factor, but rather a misunderstanding of concepts.

Why isn't it a factor? An apathetic god would allow evil to exist simply because it doesn't care enough to avert it.


This isn't a factor because it is based on an assumption that the existence of something is solely based on the mood and emotions of such a being. An Assumption that has little evidence to support it.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

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Postby Free Missouri » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:26 pm

"Aritifical" or human evil exists because we have free will, and for there to be free will, humankind must be able to choose evil. Hence why despite all that was there, Adam and Eve still had the choice to eat of the apple.

"Natural" evil (or that evil which the natural world wreaks on us) exists because we separated ourselves and our world from God by choosing evil, and because we are fallen the world has fallen with us.
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Postby Janszoonia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:28 pm

Free Missouri wrote:"Aritifical" or human evil exists because we have free will, and for there to be free will, humankind must be able to choose evil. Hence why despite all that was there, Adam and Eve still had the choice to eat of the apple.

"Natural" evil (or that evil which the natural world wreaks on us) exists because we separated ourselves and our world from God by choosing evil, and because we are fallen the world has fallen with us.

This exactly.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:28 pm

Contamenesia wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:Why isn't it a factor? An apathetic god would allow evil to exist simply because it doesn't care enough to avert it.


This isn't a factor because it is based on an assumption that the existence of something is solely based on the mood and emotions of such a being. An Assumption that has little evidence to support it.

It makes more sense to me then, "God has a plan"
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Elvatia
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Postby Elvatia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:29 pm

Very nice response to a much used argument against God! Bless your soul.

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Ayepar
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Postby Ayepar » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:30 pm

Because god IS evil, obviously , duh

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:30 pm

Commonly know as the Problem of Evil.

Goes quite far back. There's quite famous quote from an ancient Greek philosopher on the subject:
Epicurus wrote:“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:32 pm

Can the OP please define the Free Will that his god can't violate?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:34 pm

Free Missouri wrote:"Aritifical" or human evil exists because we have free will, and for there to be free will, humankind must be able to choose evil. Hence why despite all that was there, Adam and Eve still had the choice to eat of the apple.

"Natural" evil (or that evil which the natural world wreaks on us) exists because we separated ourselves and our world from God by choosing evil, and because we are fallen the world has fallen with us.

Collective punishment is commonly recognized to be a war crime.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
"If people are determined to be offended, if they will climb up on the ladder, balancing precariously on their own toilet system, to be upset by what they see through the neighbour's bathroom window, there's nothing you can do about that."

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:40 pm

Alvecia wrote:Commonly know as the Problem of Evil.

Goes quite far back. There's quite famous quote from an ancient Greek philosopher on the subject:
Epicurus wrote:“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Assuming we take the bible literally, the Christian god is omnipotent and thus able. Option 3 is inconsistent with the fact that evil exists, and options 1 & 4 cannot happen as the god has already been proven to be able. We are forced to then conclude that if a god exists, he must follow option 2 and therefore:
Ayepar wrote:Because god IS evil, obviously , duh
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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War Gears
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Postby War Gears » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:43 pm

Because gods are impermanent beings tainted by passions.
These heavenly beings tainted with attachment and passion; having women and weapons by their side, favour some and disfavour some; Such heavenly beings should not be worshipped by those who desire emancipation.
Parasparopagraho Jīvānām.

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Contamenesia
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Postby Contamenesia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:43 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Commonly know as the Problem of Evil.

Goes quite far back. There's quite famous quote from an ancient Greek philosopher on the subject:

Assuming we take the bible literally, the Christian god is omnipotent and thus able. Option 3 is inconsistent with the fact that evil exists, and options 1 & 4 cannot happen as the god has already been proven to be able. We are forced to then conclude that if a god exists, he must follow option 2 and therefore:
Ayepar wrote:Because god IS evil, obviously , duh


Can one define one who writes the rules as a breaker of the rules?
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:43 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Commonly know as the Problem of Evil.

Goes quite far back. There's quite famous quote from an ancient Greek philosopher on the subject:

Assuming we take the bible literally, the Christian god is omnipotent and thus able. Option 3 is inconsistent with the fact that evil exists, and options 1 & 4 cannot happen as the god has already been proven to be able. We are forced to then conclude that if a god exists, he must follow option 2 and therefore:
Ayepar wrote:Because god IS evil, obviously , duh

And it raises the question how limited this omnipotent god must be if the only solution to prevent suffering is to violate free will and turn people into robots.

Imagine if every single ISIS fighter suddenly had all their fingers painfully fused together so that they can never again hold a gun or rpg, set an IED, or even work a radio.
How much suffering would be ended without violating Free Will?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
"If people are determined to be offended, if they will climb up on the ladder, balancing precariously on their own toilet system, to be upset by what they see through the neighbour's bathroom window, there's nothing you can do about that."

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:44 pm

Contamenesia wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:Assuming we take the bible literally, the Christian god is omnipotent and thus able. Option 3 is inconsistent with the fact that evil exists, and options 1 & 4 cannot happen as the god has already been proven to be able. We are forced to then conclude that if a god exists, he must follow option 2 and therefore:


Can one define one who writes the rules as a breaker of the rules?

Yes, it happens all the time in the real world.
Last edited by Kenmoria on Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Contamenesia
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Postby Contamenesia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:45 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Contamenesia wrote:
Can one define one who writes the rules as a breaker of the rules?

Yes, it happens all the time in the real world.


and what rule has been broken then?
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:46 pm

Contamenesia wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:Assuming we take the bible literally, the Christian god is omnipotent and thus able. Option 3 is inconsistent with the fact that evil exists, and options 1 & 4 cannot happen as the god has already been proven to be able. We are forced to then conclude that if a god exists, he must follow option 2 and therefore:


Can one define one who writes the rules as a breaker of the rules?

Quite easily yes.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
"If people are determined to be offended, if they will climb up on the ladder, balancing precariously on their own toilet system, to be upset by what they see through the neighbour's bathroom window, there's nothing you can do about that."

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:46 pm

Contamenesia wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:Yes, it happens all the time in the real world.


and what rule has been broken then?

The rule that they wrote in the first place.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
"If people are determined to be offended, if they will climb up on the ladder, balancing precariously on their own toilet system, to be upset by what they see through the neighbour's bathroom window, there's nothing you can do about that."

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Janszoonia
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Postby Janszoonia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:46 pm

This article explains perfectly why God allows evil.

"Why Does God Allow Evil?" GotQuestions.org, 4 Jan. 2017, www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-evil.html.


TLDR: God allows evil for 3 reasons.

1: God made men free so that it is more special when men choose him.

2: God does not want to zap a horny preteen for looking at Minecraft tiddies.

3: If God were to kill all sinners, everyone would be dead.
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This nation is an exaggeration of my views.

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