Pope Helius I has Died Conclave Begins [M-PMT OPEN IC]

[Banija]

Archbishop Baboucar was walking around his office. He had gotten back responses from the four catholic cardinals up for consideration for the Papacy, and was absolutely disgusted. Out of the four, 3 responded that they thought Mormons weren't Christians. The last who said that they were Christians openly criticized the beliefs of the Puritan Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

"These people are mad!" Said Archbishop Baboucar to his aide. "I try to reach out, seeing that cross-denomination work will always yield positive benefits for believers. God has called us to work with other Christians. But how do we work with people like these! 3 of their four candidates say that we are not even Christian- we believe that Christ is God's son, and that Christ is God? Like, the literal word Christian? Have they gone mad? They're the ones with female bishops."

"Your Holiness," Said his aide. "They have elected a Pope."

"A Pope, you say? One of these fools won?" Replied Archbishop Baboucar. "Which one?"

"A woman, your holiness." Replied his aide. "Juana Borgia. Or, we should refer to her as her proper name- Pope Clementia XV."

"What is wrong with this people?" Said Archbishop Baboucar. "A women pope? But let me read over her response." He read over her responses to his letter again, and while her response to his first question disgusted him, he looked at the second response. That response, was not as bad as Claude Dueze's or Stefano Borgia's. Juana Borgia said that she would end the inquisition against non-Catholics in her empire, and that she would establish a House of Wisdom. That would be interesting. Mormon scholars there would be good. And while he didnt' expect that there were many Mormons in Borgia, he had no way of knowing.

Of course, he saw an opportunity. It seemed as if this Pope had control over the functions of state too. While the Puritan Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints had a lot of influence in Banijan law, formally granted by the Constitution, it wasn't as powerful as hers. And it was clear that her election was controversial. While the idea of a Christian church with a woman at its head disgusted, he figured that he could work with her. Regardless, it wasn't his church. He had no say on how they ran their internal affairs.

Catholics across the world had a very strong reaction to Pope Clementia XV. The highest Cardinal in Tomure had stunningly resigned his position in protest of the new Pope. Cardinal Icfella of Turtleshroom had launched a public protest against her election. Her seat was in turmoil, with opposition from across the world. He saw somebody in need of an ally, and he was not about to mix this opportunity.

To: Her Holiness, Papissa Clementia XV, Bishop of Rome

Your Holiness, I would like to congratulate you on your election as the Pope. While a female Pope is quite... Controversial, and while this church will never have female clergy, we do not run your church affairs. You were legitimately elected according to your own laws, and I congratulate you on your election.

I believe that there are many places that we can work together. While I strongly protest your belief that Mormons are not Christians, I am willing to look past that for now. You have good views regarding your church's inquisition. I am not sure how many Mormons have suffered at the hands of the inquisition, but that needs to stop.

I also believe that you believe in interfaith cooperation. I am officially issuing an invitation to you to come to Herzegovina City, the seat of the Puritan Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, for a meeting to discuss cooperation between my church and yours. I invite you to bring as many bishops with you from your church from as many countries as you wish. Or, I understand that you are extremely busy and cannot fly, I would absolutely be willing to fly to Borgia, if you wish to have a meeting on this subject.

I wish you luck in establishing your authority atop your church, and if you need our help, just ask.

From,

Archbishop Baboucar of Herzegovina City
Pontifex Maximus of the Puritan Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Patriarch of All-Banija

[TURTLESHROOM II]

KINGDOM OF THE UNITED TURTLES, MUSHROOMS, AND MEN OF TURTLESHROOM
PRIVATE SECTOR - PAROCHIAL
CARDINAL JASON ICFELLA

TO THE HOLY BORGIAN SEE:

Before I begin, we thank you for clarifying the matter concerning concubinage and the clergy who can partake in it. However, as was previously stated, the TurtleShroomian Rite cannot recognize a female Pope. The Borgian See allowed for a female Pope for secular reason to protect and ensure the continuation of the holy Borgian family, so ordained and blessed by God to be the only Papal lineage. In communion with the Borgian See, we recognize that the only Popes are of Borgian blood.

However, the fact remains that the decision made by the Borgian See is not rooted in the Bible, but in secular matters concerning the continuation of the Borgian family and continuity among the various Catholic nations that neighbor the Holy Church's seat.

The Holy Bible is irrefutably clear about this:

Rules for Choosing Leaders and Deacons

3. Here is a saying you can trust. If anyone wants to be a leader in the church, they want to do a good work for God and people. 2 A leader must be free from blame. He must be faithful to his wife. In anything he does, he must not go too far. He must control himself. He must be worthy of respect. He must welcome people into his home. He must be able to teach. 3 He must not get drunk. He must not push people around. He must be gentle. He must not be a person who likes to argue. He must not love money. 4 He must manage his own family well. He must make sure that his children obey him. And he must do this in a way that gains him respect. 5 Suppose someone doesn’t know how to manage his own family. Then how can he take care of God’s church? 6 The leader must not be a new believer. If he is, he might become proud. Then he would be judged just like the devil. 7 The leader must also be respected by those who are outside the church. Then he will not be put to shame. He will not fall into the devil’s trap.

The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, sitting in Peter's Seat, and is a clergyman of an unbroken line of successors, stemming from Jesus Himself, when He told the Disciple Peter that he was the Rock on which Christ would build His Church. As a bishop, the qualifications outlined in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 apply to the office of the Papacy. While nuns are technically lay clergy, they are not qualified to shepherd a church, though they can shepherd a convent.

We do not doubt that the honored Abbess' soul is in the right place and that her advocation of pluralism and a gentler Inqusition will satisfy the Lord and bring honor to the Holy Church. However, we cannot, and will not, formally extend the recognition of the TurtleShroomian Rite to the newly declared Popess.

Therefore, the TurtleShroomian Rite will continue to operate under Sede Vacante. The Bible comes before secular law and family blood.

We are, however, willing to strike a compromise. Perhaps the esteemed Abbess could appoint a Papal Nuncio or some other clergy man in her stead to serve as the connection between the Holy Borgian See and the TurtleShroomian Rite?


God bless you and God protect the Holy Catholic Church under the illustrious wisdom of House Borgia.
-HIS EMINICENCE, CARDINAL JASON ICFELLA OF TURTLESHROOM, NATIONAL CARDINAL OF CATHOLIC CHRISTIANITY AND SPIRITUAL ADVISOR TO THE CROWN

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

(Image)

KINGDOM OF THE UNITED TURTLES, MUSHROOMS, AND MEN OF TURTLESHROOM
PRIVATE SECTOR - PAROCHIAL
CARDINAL JASON ICFELLA

TO THE HOLY BORGIAN SEE:

Before I begin, we thank you for clarifying the matter concerning concubinage and the clergy who can partake in it. However, as was previously stated, the TurtleShroomian Rite cannot recognize a female Pope. The Borgian See allowed for a female Pope for secular reason to protect and ensure the continuation of the holy Borgian family, so ordained and blessed by God to be the only Papal lineage. In communion with the Borgian See, we recognize that the only Popes are of Borgian blood.

However, the fact remains that the decision made by the Borgian See is not rooted in the Bible, but in secular matters concerning the continuation of the Borgian family and continuity among the various Catholic nations that neighbor the Holy Church's seat.

The Holy Bible is irrefutably clear about this:

Rules for Choosing Leaders and Deacons

3. Here is a saying you can trust. If anyone wants to be a leader in the church, they want to do a good work for God and people. 2 A leader must be free from blame. He must be faithful to his wife. In anything he does, he must not go too far. He must control himself. He must be worthy of respect. He must welcome people into his home. He must be able to teach. 3 He must not get drunk. He must not push people around. He must be gentle. He must not be a person who likes to argue. He must not love money. 4 He must manage his own family well. He must make sure that his children obey him. And he must do this in a way that gains him respect. 5 Suppose someone doesn’t know how to manage his own family. Then how can he take care of God’s church? 6 The leader must not be a new believer. If he is, he might become proud. Then he would be judged just like the devil. 7 The leader must also be respected by those who are outside the church. Then he will not be put to shame. He will not fall into the devil’s trap.

The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, sitting in Peter's Seat, and is a clergyman of an unbroken line of successors, stemming from Jesus Himself, when he told the Disciple Peter that he was the Rock on which Christ would build His Church. As a bishop, the qualifications outlined in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 apply to the office of the Papacy. While nuns are technically lay clergy, they are not qualified to shepherd a church, though they can shepherd a convent.

We do not doubt that the honored Abbess' soul is in the right place and that her advocation of pluralism and a gentler Inqusition will satisfy the Lord and bring honor to the Holy Church. However, we cannot, and will not, formally extend the recognition of the TurtleShroomian Rite to the newly declared Popess.

Therefore, the TurtleShroomian Rite will continue to operate under Sede Vacante. The Bible comes before secular law and family blood.

We are, however, willing to strike a compromise. Perhaps the esteemed Abbess could appoint a Papal Nuncio or some other clergy man in her stead to serve as the connection between the Holy Borgian See and the TurtleShroomian Rite?


God bless you and God protect the Holy Catholic Church under the illustrious wisdom of House Borgia.
-HIS EMINICENCE, CARDINAL JASON ICFELLA OF TURTLESHROOM, NATIONAL CARDINAL OF CATHOLIC CHRISTIANITY AND SPIRITUAL ADVISOR TO THE CROWN

A Letter from the Holy Mother

Cardinal Icfella,

"I will live to make myself not feared." was a vow made by Catherine The Great of Russia on her ascension to the Tsarist Throne. This is a vow I myself will accept. I will not threaten you with Hell, nor with assassination, nor with the inquisition. I will only warn you that a move to declare the church still under Sede Vacante will make the Turtleshroomer Church schismatic, thus under and immediate latae sententiae excommunicationem. You met my father, Julius IV, to bring your church into communion with Rome. Do not sever it with his daughter, merely because she is a woman. I admit truly that I admire you for airing your concerns, but I grow weary of this issue. No, I will not create a nuncio for you. I am a woman, and I was duly elected Papissa in conclave. A strong man will kneel to both. I am not asking for your loyalty, Cardinal Icfella, I am commanding it as your Papissa. There will be no exceptions to this, for anyone.

If you still feel strongly about this, then come to Rome, where we can discuss this like adults. Do not slink behind the skirts of your fellow Turtleshroomer Bishops.

From,
Her Holiness, Papissa Clementia XV, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Daughter of the Mother of The Church, Shepard of the Flock of Jesus Christ, Sole and Most Sanctified Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Mother Superior of All Convents, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the Vatican City State, Servant of the servants of God.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

{ OOC: Would it interest the other members of this thread if the dissenting groups who sent letters, TS included, picked a Borgia family member to crown as an Antipope? I am certain there is a Borgian family member out there with enough ambition to make that move. }

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

{ OOC: Would it interest the other members of this thread if the dissenting groups who sent letters, TS included, picked a Borgia family member to crown as an Antipope? I am certain there is a Borgian family member out there with enough ambition to make that move. }

OOC:

Doubtful. The Borgia family, even with their political disagreements, are incredibly defensive for the collective group. This is what happens when literally everyone is constantly trying to destroy you. This not mentioning her decade of service in the Apostolic Court of Audience and the Signatura. She, basically mixture of Catherine The Great and Elizabeth II, is never going to yield her papacy...but isn't really much of a threat to anyone.

[Banija]

{ OOC: Would it interest the other members of this thread if the dissenting groups who sent letters, TS included, picked a Borgia family member to crown as an Antipope? I am certain there is a Borgian family member out there with enough ambition to make that move. }

OOC: that would be an interesting twist... I'd be down.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Doubtful. The Borgia family, even with their political disagreements, are incredibly defensive for the collective group. This is what happens when literally everyone is constantly trying to destroy you. This not mentioning her decade of service in the Apostolic Court of Audience and the Signatura. She, basically mixture of Catherine The Great and Elizabeth II, is never going to yield her papacy...but isn't really much of a threat to anyone.

{ OOC: Well, the reason I asked for a Borgian Antipope is because, IC-wise, all churches in Communion with the Borgian See recognize said See's Canon Law that declares House Borgia to be the only family in Nationstates that can hold the Borgian Papacy. If that wasn't the case, I'd get one of the players here- or even myself -to set up an Antipope. }

{ OOC: Surely, is there some illegitimate child of the Borgian line, someone disinherited with an axe to grind, or some sort of ambitious monk or priest with blood relations to House Borgia that could observe 1 Timothy and become an Antipope? Literally half, if not more, of the churches in this thread have rebelled against the idea of a female Pope. The cry for an Antipope is immense, and I think it would be awesome if the best Catholics on NS could do that scenario in the twenty-first century. }

{ OOC: In your church, when was the last time there was a non-Borgian Pope? I assume it's been a full Borgian Papacy since the RL Borgian Popes, right? Are there any protocols or loopholes in which a non-Borgian Pope can assume the throne of the Borgian See? Wouldn't that ultraconservative cardinal, Claude, be fiercely against such an un-Biblical notion as a female clergytman? }

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Doubtful. The Borgia family, even with their political disagreements, are incredibly defensive for the collective group. This is what happens when literally everyone is constantly trying to destroy you. This not mentioning her decade of service in the Apostolic Court of Audience and the Signatura. She, basically mixture of Catherine The Great and Elizabeth II, is never going to yield her papacy...but isn't really much of a threat to anyone.

{ OOC: Well, the reason I asked for a Borgian Antipope is because, IC-wise, all churches in Communion with the Borgian See recognize said See's Canon Law that declares House Borgia to be the only family in Nationstates that can hold the Borgian Papacy. If that wasn't the case, I'd get one of the players here- or even myself -to set up an Antipope. }

{ OOC: Surely, is there some illegitimate child of the Borgian line, someone disinherited with an axe to grind, or some sort of ambitious monk or priest with blood relations to House Borgia that could observe 1 Timothy and become an Antipope? Literally half, if not more, of the churches in this thread have rebelled against the idea of a female Pope. The cry for an Antipope is immense, and I think it would be awesome if the best Catholics on NS could do that scenario in the twenty-first century. }

{ OOC: In your church, when was the last time there was a non-Borgian Pope? I assume it's been a full Borgian Papacy since the RL Borgian Popes, right? Are there any protocols or loopholes in which a non-Borgian Pope can assume the throne of the Borgian See? Wouldn't that ultraconservative cardinal, Claude, be fiercely against such an un-Biblical notion as a female clergytman? }

OOC: There's the problem...'we' don't believe in illegitimacy. If you have a Borgia father, you are a Borgia. The last Pope, Helius I, was begotten by Jean de Borgia, the son of a French prostitute by an unknown Borgia father. DNA testing proved his inheritance, and he was made Comte de Avignon. Like I said before, the Borgias have constantly been under threat for their entire history, even under male Pontiffs, and to survive they've mastered the 'La Familia' philosophy, if they cannot be killed...make them family. By making and art of and weaponizing corruption, seduction, and nepotism the Borgia will Co-opt those they cannot afford to destroy. They most famously did this during the Pontificate of Calixtus IV, who in a triple marriage, absorbed the Colonna, Orsini, and Medici Italian families, thereby permanently creating a monopoly on Italian Power. Claude d'Euse was welcomed into the family by marriage, and while he himself is descended from Pope John XXII, he is a Borgia now. This methodolgy of power makes betrayal a high risk for little reward. If say, Dueze, became an Anti-Pope, he'd make himself the enemy of the entire family and if he were to somehow seize the Papal throne by force he would not last long before being assassinated. Any other antipope would've even get the respect of being called as such, if they aren't a Borgia.

Dueze is definitely *enraged* by this papal election, but he is not stupid either. He's resentfully and not quietly, mind you, accepted reappointment to the Congregation of The Causes of The Saints after being removed from the Inquisition. If Icfella does come to Rome to negotiate, he'd be the one you'd want to meet before your audience with Clementia.

[Bruke]

ብሩክ ካቶሊክ ቤተክርስትያን

Brukean Catholic Church

Greetings. This is Cardinal Kaleb Asamenew, head of the Catholic Church in the Royal Republic. I am writing to ask about your stance on churches that use different liturgy than that of the Borgian See, and whether or not that is an obstacle to relations between our churches.

Our church uses the Alexandrian Rite, like our Orthodox brethren.

May God keep you in His care.

ካርዲናል ካሌብ አስማሪየ የዱቡ ከተማ ሊቀ ጳጳስ የብሩክካን ካቶሊክ ቤተ ክርስቲያን ራስ
Cardinal Kaleb Asamenew, Archbishop of Dub City and head of the Brukean Catholic Church

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

A Letter from the Holy Mother

Cardinal Kaleb Asamenew,

As long as your church recognizes the authority vested in the Bishop of Rome as the head of the Catholic religion, you may utilize the Alexandrian Rite without fear of molestation from us or our curia. There are already 23 Eastern Catholic Churches under our umbrella. We would always welcome more into the brotherhood of the True and Universal Church willingly.

Go with God.

From,
Her Holiness, Papissa Clementia XV, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Daughter of the Mother of The Church, Shepard of the Flock of Jesus Christ, Sole and Most Sanctified Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Mother Superior of All Convents, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the Vatican City State, Servant of the servants of God.

[Bruke]

ብሩክ ካቶሊክ ቤተክርስትያን

Brukean Catholic Church

In that case, we would have no concerns entering into communion with the Borgian See. Congratulations on your election, Holy Mother. I, and all the Catholics of our country, wish you the very best.

ካርዲናል ካሌብ አስማሪየ የዱቡ ከተማ ሊቀ ጳጳስ የብሩክካን ካቶሊክ ቤተ ክርስቲያን ራስ
Cardinal Kaleb Asamenew, Archbishop of Dub City and head of the Brukean Catholic Church

[Bruke]

ብሩክ ኦርቶዶክስ ተዋህዶ ቤተ ክርስቲያን

Brukean Orthodox Tewahedo Church

I am Abuna Petros of the Brukean Orthodox Church. We have heard that our Catholic brethren wish to enter into communion with you. While we are opposed in principle to a woman being elected Pope, it behooves us to have good relations with one of the great churches of the world, especially since you will now preside over Catholics in our country. We are cautiously optimistic that our relationship will be a friendly one.

አቡነ ጴጥሮስ, ብሩክ ፓትርያርክ እና ካቶሊክስ, ብሩክ ክሊቨር ሊቀ ጳጳሳት እና የ ቅዱስ ጆርጅ ኦፍ ቼግጅ
Abuna Petros, Patriarch and Catholicos of Bruke, Archbishop of Brukeville and Ichege of the See of Saint George