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Making the Boycott Israel movement illegal

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Kennlind
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Making the Boycott Israel movement illegal

Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:41 pm

from the Independent
A bill that would criminalise boycotts against Israel has been signed by 45 US senators and 237 congressman.
The so-called “Israel Anti-Boycott Act” would impose fines of up to $250,000 (£192,000) on any US citizen “engaged in interstate or foreign commerce” who supports a boycott of Israeli goods and services.
The US has long defended Israel in territorial disputes in the Middle East, even as the Israeli military has expanded into areas assigned to the Palestinians by international law.
This position runs counter to that of the United Nations, which claims Israel’s settlements in occupied Palestinian territory have “no legal validity”, and “constitute flagrant violation of international law”.
In their new legislation, members of Congress claim the UN is considering a resolution to withhold assistance from – and prevent trade with – settlements in East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.
The Israel Anti-Boycott act would punish any American who supported such measures.
However, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has argued that the bill would “impose civil and criminal punishment on individuals solely because of their political beliefs about Israel and its policies”, in a letter sent to members of the Senate.
“In short, the bill would punish businesses and individuals solely based on their point of view,” it wrote. “Such a penalty is in direct violation of the First Amendment.”
Still, the bill – reportedly drafted with the help of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) – has received widespread bipartisan support.
Even liberal-leaning senators like Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and Maria Cantwell of Washington, and representatives like Adam Schiff of Massachusetts, have signed on to the legislation.
Conservatives like Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Marco Rubio of Florida also support it.
When asked by The Intercept about this support, many legislators seemed unfamiliar with the details.
Democratic Senator Gary Peters of Michigan responded by asking: “What’s the Act?”
Senator Claire McCaskill claimed she had not read the ACLU letter, but would “take their position into consideration, just like I take everybody’s position into consideration”.
Meanwhile, Senator Benjamin Cardin – the bill’s primary sponsor – said that he “doesn’t think” the bill criminalises participating in boycotts, as the ACLU has claimed.
“We are very sensitive to freedom of speech; we are very sensitive to people having different views,” he said. “We’re not trying to weigh in at all on the differences between the Palestinians and the Israelis.”


This is a little old so I'm not sure if anyone has made a thread on this already, but I woke up to this lovely bit of news from one of my friends from Israel. I for one wholeheartedly support this bill. However, it does not go far enough, as it will only punish US citizens “engaged in interstate or foreign commerce”, not any US citizen engaged in anti-semitism. If you know anything about history, you know the first things the nazis did to target Jews was boycotting and advocating the boycott of Jewish owned businesses. The boycott Israel movement just shows how rampant neo-nazism and anti-semitism is within western society today. What do you all think? Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:42 pm

Interesting, so how long do you think you're going to be a Zionist for?
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:42 pm

Dude this was talked about months ago. This is old news
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:43 pm

Why just Israel?
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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:44 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:Interesting, so how long do you think you're going to be a Zionist for?

I've always been a Zionist.

Thermodolia wrote:Dude this was talked about months ago. This is old news

I did mention that at the start.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Interesting, so how long do you think you're going to be a Zionist for?

I've always been a Zionist.

Thermodolia wrote:Dude this was talked about months ago. This is old news

I did mention that at the start.

There was a thread on this topic already
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Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Interesting, so how long do you think you're going to be a Zionist for?

I've always been a Zionist.

Weren't you pro Ba'athist the other week?
Last edited by Bakery Hill on Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:47 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Kennlind wrote:I've always been a Zionist.

Weren't you pro Ba'athist the other week?

I'm pro Ba'athism and Pro-Zionism. What's your point?
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:48 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Weren't you pro Ba'athist the other week?

I'm pro Ba'athism and Pro-Zionism. What's your point?

Well shit, there you go. The internet's quite the place.
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Gypsies Inc
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Postby Gypsies Inc » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:50 pm

I, as an Israeli have mixed views on this, and i'd rather address your second point. If you make antisemitism illegal that would mean you either have to make all hate illegal or accept being a hypocrite. The first is completely totalitarian (and impossible) and the second is unjust and stupid.

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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:53 pm

Gypsies Inc wrote:I, as an Israeli have mixed views on this, and i'd rather address your second point. If you make antisemitism illegal that would mean you either have to make all hate illegal or accept being a hypocrite. The first is completely totalitarian (and impossible) and the second is unjust and stupid.

active anti-semitic activity resulted in genocide. "Hate speech" does not, it's a broad term used to shut down opposition.

Bakery Hill wrote:
Kennlind wrote:I'm pro Ba'athism and Pro-Zionism. What's your point?

Well shit, there you go. The internet's quite the place.

I support a Jewish state, not the government of Israel. I oppose their occupation of the Golan Heights, but I see why they did it, and think once the war in Syria ends, they should hand it over.
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Toronina
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Postby Toronina » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:53 pm

This sound incredibly undemocratic. People have the right to protest, boycotting is protesting. But of course, supporting countries with human rights violations is nothing new dor the US, see Khemer Rouge, Saudi Arabia, etc.
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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:55 pm

Toronina wrote:This sound incredibly undemocratic. People have the right to protest, boycotting is protesting. But of course, supporting countries with human rights violations is nothing new dor the US, see Khemer Rouge, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Israel is the only country ever singled out for "human rights violations" because it's a JEWISH state. Every major country to ever exist has commit "human rights violations". As for Israel, they never have commit any.
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Postby Petrasylvania » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:56 pm

And rather surprisingly, nobody from the Tiki Torch crowd ever brought this issue up ever.
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Postby The Widening Gyre » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:57 pm

Kennlind wrote:Israel is the only country ever singled out for "human rights violations" because it's a JEWISH state. Every major country to ever exist has commit "human rights violations". As for Israel, they never have commit any.


That's quite the crisis of credulity you're going through.
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Toronina
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Postby Toronina » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:59 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Toronina wrote:This sound incredibly undemocratic. People have the right to protest, boycotting is protesting. But of course, supporting countries with human rights violations is nothing new dor the US, see Khemer Rouge, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Israel is the only country ever singled out for "human rights violations" because it's a JEWISH state. Every major country to ever exist has commit "human rights violations". As for Israel, they never have commit any.

"Everyone else has commited humans rights violations so Israel should be allowed to." I litteraly mentioned two other humans rights violating states in my post, neither Jewish. Israel isn't singled out for being Jewish, it's singled out for commiting human rights violations.
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Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:59 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Gypsies Inc wrote:I, as an Israeli have mixed views on this, and i'd rather address your second point. If you make antisemitism illegal that would mean you either have to make all hate illegal or accept being a hypocrite. The first is completely totalitarian (and impossible) and the second is unjust and stupid.

active anti-semitic activity resulted in genocide. "Hate speech" does not, it's a broad term used to shut down opposition.

Bakery Hill wrote:Well shit, there you go. The internet's quite the place.

I support a Jewish state, not the government of Israel. I oppose their occupation of the Golan Heights, but I see why they did it, and think once the war in Syria ends, they should hand it over.

Fair, but I can't ever think of a time when a Ba'athist government and an Israeli government have not been enemies. Israel is an affront to their vision for the Middle East.
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Postby Attempted Socialism » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:01 pm

Why not just skip the middleman and declare that opposition to illegal occupation and genocide should be fined?

The BDS movement is not anti-semitic or anything of the sort. It opposes warcrimes in the occupied West Bank, and warcrimes in the Gaza Strip. Both are atrocities on a massive scale, done by Israeli military forces. Furthermore, the BDS movement opposes the genocide happening on the West Bank, where new "settlements" are slowly eradicating any hope of a peaceful solution.
Making opposition to military occupation and genocide illegal is not just authoritarian, it's directly supporting and incentivising new warcrimes. Why on Earth should we do that?


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Postby Kenmoria » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:02 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Toronina wrote:This sound incredibly undemocratic. People have the right to protest, boycotting is protesting. But of course, supporting countries with human rights violations is nothing new dor the US, see Khemer Rouge, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Israel is the only country ever singled out for "human rights violations" because it's a JEWISH state. Every major country to ever exist has commit "human rights violations". As for Israel, they never have commit any.

But Israel has still committed human rights violations and, whether the boycotters have some ulterior motives or not, that still deserves to be the cause of controversy, criticism, and international sanctions.
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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:03 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Kennlind wrote:active anti-semitic activity resulted in genocide. "Hate speech" does not, it's a broad term used to shut down opposition.

I support a Jewish state, not the government of Israel. I oppose their occupation of the Golan Heights, but I see why they did it, and think once the war in Syria ends, they should hand it over.

Fair, but I can't ever think of a time when a Ba'athist government and an Israeli government have not been enemies. Israel is an affront to their vision for the Middle East.

Yes I know, it's sad and I hope they can settle their differences but groups like Hamas are just not willing to allow for peace, and the Israeli gov aren't helping with occupying the Golan Heights.

Toronina wrote:
Kennlind wrote:Israel is the only country ever singled out for "human rights violations" because it's a JEWISH state. Every major country to ever exist has commit "human rights violations". As for Israel, they never have commit any.

"Everyone else has commited humans rights violations so Israel should be allowed to." I litteraly mentioned two other humans rights violating states in my post, neither Jewish. Israel isn't singled out for being Jewish, it's singled out for commiting human rights violations.

First I don't believe in the concept of human rights, they were decided by the UN, a neoliberal/neocon globalist organisation that voids countries of their sovereignty. While I believe there are certain rights everyone should have, I don't like this concept of human rights because it is usually used to tar legitimate governments as evil for going against the United States' agenda. As for Israel's "human rights violations" they should be allowed to, because they're only violating the human rights of terrorists like Hamas to defend the Jews who live in Israel.
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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:05 pm

Attempted Socialism wrote:Why not just skip the middleman and declare that opposition to illegal occupation and genocide should be fined?

The BDS movement is not anti-semitic or anything of the sort. It opposes warcrimes in the occupied West Bank, and warcrimes in the Gaza Strip. Both are atrocities on a massive scale, done by Israeli military forces. Furthermore, the BDS movement opposes the genocide happening on the West Bank, where new "settlements" are slowly eradicating any hope of a peaceful solution.
Making opposition to military occupation and genocide illegal is not just authoritarian, it's directly supporting and incentivising new warcrimes. Why on Earth should we do that?

Why is there no boycott of terrorists like Hamas that are causing the problems??? You know Israel would be at peace if it wasnt for radical Islamic terrorists. There are no crimes committed by Israel, and even if there was, they would be justifiable as Israel aims to minimize civilian casualties to defend innocent non-combatants on both sides and to reach their end goal of peace.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:05 pm

I try not to buy Israeli, if I can avoid it. Am I now evil?
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Kennlind
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Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:06 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I try not to buy Israeli, if I can avoid it. Am I now evil?

Since you are purposely trying not to buy products from Israel, you are anti-Semitic.
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:07 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Weren't you pro Ba'athist the other week?

I'm pro Ba'athism and Pro-Zionism. What's your point?

That's completely nonsensical, one of the foundations of modern Ba'athism is opposition to Israel. It's like the one thing every Ba'athist agrees with.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:08 pm

Kennlind wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Fair, but I can't ever think of a time when a Ba'athist government and an Israeli government have not been enemies. Israel is an affront to their vision for the Middle East.

Yes I know, it's sad and I hope they can settle their differences but groups like Hamas are just not willing to allow for peace, and the Israeli gov aren't helping with occupying the Golan Heights.

But Ba'athists were against Israel from it's inception, the only person you could still call a Ba'athist who is still in power despises the country, and all Ba'athist parties are anti-Zionist.
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