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The #MeToo Campaign (Updated)

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New Edom
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The #MeToo Campaign (Updated)

Postby New Edom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:42 am

Here we go again. If we needed more proof that the general narrative about sexual assault and harassment is about protecting women, look no further: #MeToo: Harvey Weinstein case moves thousands to tell their own stories of abuse, break silence

“If all the women who have been sexually harassed or assaulted wrote ‘Me too’ as a status, we might give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem,” wrote the actor (Alyssa Milano)

Just to be clear: if this is what the world wants, fine. If the real concern for feminists is women and women only, fine. But let's drop the pretense that there is any concern or compassion for men and boys here; it's an afterthought at best.

And lest anyone come forward and say "Well why don't you do your own thing?" My response is this: any efforts to help men that are not lockstep with feminism and led by feminists are frowned upon, and even then are regarded with suspicion.

So, this is what I recommend as options here.

1. Stop pretending feminism is intended to help men. It isn't; it's meant to help women.

2. Actually be consistently intersectional if people really believe that. Be open to actual discussions about the issues.

3. Or here's a crazy thought, drop the rape culture narrative and focus on freedom and access to the law and opportunity for everyone.

Updated List of articles targeting men as abusers without qualification:

1. CNN: Mandaotory sexual harassment training: while this may appear neutral on the surface, all the examples cited are men harassing women, who are also the only specific sex mentioned as victims.

2. #MeToo in Vox. Interestingly, in the video, Tarana Burke mentions that she does not want the campaign to focus on just one sex, but this seems like a casual ad on to her main focus, which is on women, particularly women of colour.

3. CNN: Anita Hill: Anita Hill and other speakers speak p and talk about how women need to be heard, men need to listen and respond. All men are complicit.

4. LA TImes: Women coming forward

5. Time: Half of Women in America claim to have been sexually harassed.. Bearing in mind that this is out of a sample size of roughly 270 people. One cannot help but note that if THIS sample size is enough to prove something, why are the sample sizes for male abuse, harassment and mistreatment, which are in some cases roughly similar, virtually ignored?

6. Washington Post More from Tarana Burke about women, particularly women of colour.

7. CNN article urges men and boys to step up and honour women.

8. Forbes article: men need to change. The article begins on what appears to be a neutral note but quickly drops this tone and focuses on the idea that women are victims, men are perps.
Last edited by New Edom on Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:50 am

I'm sorry, but what are we supposed to discuss exactly?

"Woe is me, a powerful Hollywood producer spent decades sexually harassing women with impunity and many women are coming out to share their own stories in solidarity/to raise awareness. Clearly this proves feminism is misandrist and doesn't care about men."

Nevermind the fact that this also happened after the Weinstein scandal blew up: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/11/actor-terry-crews-sexually-assaulted-by-hollywood-executive

This is like making a thread about protests against police misconduct towards black people to complain that BLM doesn't care about white victims of police misconduct.
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Longweather
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Postby Longweather » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:53 am

Damn you beat me to posting a topic on the matter. I wish there was a question though to further facilitate discussion.

Honestly, I'm too terrified to post a "me too" despite it being applicable to my life way too often since I've begun dwelling on my experiences after reading one of Galloism's threads a long while ago. I doubt I'd get much support for obvious reasons.

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:53 am

You know your narrative has gone beyond what's reasonable when you feel the urge to use a campaign in response to Harvey Weinstein to whine "yeah, but what about men?!!"
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:55 am

Longweather wrote:Damn you beat me to posting a topic on the matter. I wish there was a question though to further facilitate discussion.

Honestly, I'm too terrified to post a "me too" despite it being applicable to my life way too often since I've begun dwelling on my experiences after reading one of Galloism's threads a long while ago. I doubt I'd get much support for obvious reasons.

Do it. There's the risk that some douchebags will be douchebags about it, but if you have a story to tell, you should tell it.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:55 am

Longweather wrote:Damn you beat me to posting a topic on the matter. I wish there was a question though to further facilitate discussion.

Honestly, I'm too terrified to post a "me too" despite it being applicable to my life way too often since I've begun dwelling on my experiences after reading one of Galloism's threads a long while ago. I doubt I'd get much support for obvious reasons.

Talk about it, some people will be fucking twats, but i have no doubt many many more will be supportive of you.
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Longweather
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Postby Longweather » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:56 am

Liriena wrote:You know your narrative has gone beyond what's reasonable when you feel the urge to use a campaign in response to Harvey Weinstein to whine "yeah, but what about men?!!"


Not necessarily. A one-sided campaign can lead to further marginalization of male victims.

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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:56 am

It's #MeToo, not #SheToo.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:58 am

New Edom wrote:1. Stop pretending feminism is intended to help men. It isn't; it's meant to help women.

2. Actually be consistently intersectional if people really believe that. Be open to actual discussions about the issues.

3. Or here's a crazy thought, drop the rape culture narrative and focus on freedom and access to the law and opportunity for everyone.

Okay... who are you directing these demands to, specifically? Because, if you're serious about this, if you seriously hope for that to happen, you need a realistic target, no?

Just making demands to the whole feminist movements by screaming into the void is only slightly less useful than a change.org petition. As far as I know, there are no prominent feminist figures in this forum, so they can't really respond to your demands. And there's also the issue that you are, of course, overgeneralizing your opponent.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:00 pm

Longweather wrote:
Liriena wrote:You know your narrative has gone beyond what's reasonable when you feel the urge to use a campaign in response to Harvey Weinstein to whine "yeah, but what about men?!!"


Not necessarily. A one-sided campaign can lead to further marginalization of male victims.

Is it a "one-sided" campaign, though? New Edom acts like it is, but I haven't seen anyone who's participated in it say "men cannot share their experiences with sexual harassment".

That this campaign appears to have mostly attracted women and their experiences so far might have something to do with the fact that it's a response to the Harvey Weinstein scandal, which was about male-on-female sexual harassment.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:01 pm

Liriena wrote:
New Edom wrote:1. Stop pretending feminism is intended to help men. It isn't; it's meant to help women.

2. Actually be consistently intersectional if people really believe that. Be open to actual discussions about the issues.

3. Or here's a crazy thought, drop the rape culture narrative and focus on freedom and access to the law and opportunity for everyone.

Okay... who are you directing these demands to, specifically? Because, if you're serious about this, if you seriously hope for that to happen, you need a realistic target, no?

Just making demands to the whole feminist movements by screaming into the void is only slightly less useful than a change.org petition. As far as I know, there are no prominent feminist figures in this forum, so they can't really respond to your demands. And there's also the issue that you are, of course, overgeneralizing your opponent.

Do you really think theirs anybody worthwhile on NS at all?
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:01 pm

Also, why isn't this in the Weinstein thread, New Edom? Did you just want the spotlight all for you?
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Gig em Aggies wrote:
Liriena wrote:Okay... who are you directing these demands to, specifically? Because, if you're serious about this, if you seriously hope for that to happen, you need a realistic target, no?

Just making demands to the whole feminist movements by screaming into the void is only slightly less useful than a change.org petition. As far as I know, there are no prominent feminist figures in this forum, so they can't really respond to your demands. And there's also the issue that you are, of course, overgeneralizing your opponent.

Do you really think theirs anybody worthwhile on NS at all?

Nana *nod*
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:07 pm

The first time I saw this was when a male friend of mine put it up. The people offering support were all women and self declared feminists. Get over yourself.
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:10 pm

Terry Crews and other men in Hollywood have literally also been coming out with their stories of being assaulted, you know.
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as silent beneficiaries of the fruits of injustice."
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:11 pm

It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."

Plenty of men are doing it already.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."

Men are already doing that, case in point terry crews as people noted above.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:13 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."

Plenty of men are doing it already.


There we go then, not a problem, just makes the people who started and advertised it look out of touch and gynocentric. In functional terms, there's not much bad going on with this one I don't think.

If the media reports on it as "Womens tweets" that'd be a problem, and it'd be another instance of the willful ignorance and silence of the feminist organizers and media class to mens issues.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:15 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."

"Hijack"?

So... you mean undermine the female survivors and "steal" this campaign, as if this was some sort of zero-sum game where one gender must have "control" over the hashtag?

At this point, I'm really beyond believing that you or New Edom are speaking in any manner of good faith or genuine care for sexual harassment survivors.
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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:15 pm

Liriena wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."

"Hijack"?

So... you mean undermine the female survivors and "steal" this campaign, as if this was some sort of zero-sum game where one gender must have "control" over the hashtag?

At this point, I'm really beyond believing that you or New Edom are speaking in any manner of good faith or genuine care for sexual harassment survivors.


Hijack a campaign from gynocentrists to make it egalitarian?
Don't see the problem.

Yeh, totally up for stealing it.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:16 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Plenty of men are doing it already.


There we go then, not a problem, just makes the people who started and advertised it look out of touch and gynocentric. In functional terms, there's not much bad going on with this one I don't think.

If the media reports on it as "Womens tweets" that'd be a problem, and it'd be another instance of the willful ignorance and silence of the feminist organizers and media class to mens issues.

It all started because of Harvery Weinstein who, as far as we know, exclusively harassed women. Go figure that a twitter campaign in response to that would be "gynocentric".
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

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Pilarcraft
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Postby Pilarcraft » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:17 pm

imagine finding out a public celebrity kept sexually harrassing, assaulting, and raping people for a long time, and having the thought "but what about m e n ?"

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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:17 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Liriena wrote:"Hijack"?

So... you mean undermine the female survivors and "steal" this campaign, as if this was some sort of zero-sum game where one gender must have "control" over the hashtag?

At this point, I'm really beyond believing that you or New Edom are speaking in any manner of good faith or genuine care for sexual harassment survivors.


Hijack a campaign from gynocentrists to make it egalitarian?
Don't see the problem.

Yeh, totally up for stealing it.

It was never a female only campaign to begin with. Being started by women doesn't mean it's exclusive to men. Like voting. Everyone knows that just because men voted first doesn't mean women couldn't also vote.

Wait...
"If there is no friendship with [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation,
because love exists only among equals."
- Gustavo Gutierrez
"To be drugged by the comforts of privilege is to become contributors to injustice
as silent beneficiaries of the fruits of injustice."
- Pedro Arrupe
For: Higher refugee quotas, universal health care, LGBT rights, animal rights, legalization of divorce in the Philippines, autonomy of Bangsamoro and Cordillera.
Against: Neoimperialism, neofeudalism, ultranationalism, authoritarianism, historical revisionism, state-sponsored mass murder, the return of a Marcos to Malacañang.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:17 pm

Pilarcraft wrote:imagine finding out a public celebrity kept sexually harrassing, assaulting, and raping people for a long time, and having the thought "but what about m e n ?"

Must be a sad life to lead.
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