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Islam Can Prevent Abuse

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Yami-Chan
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Islam Can Prevent Abuse

Postby Yami-Chan » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/har ... 01521.html

If the Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse revelations shocked you, then you’re dangerously ignorant to reality. According to RAINN, an American is assaulted every 98 seconds, one out of every six women will deal with rape or attempted rape in her lifetime, and 90 per cent of rape victims are women.

I’m a Muslim, and a civil rights lawyer with a special interest in advocating for women’s rights. My advocacy is informed not just by the law, but by strategies detailed in Islamic teachings and Prophet Muhammad’s example to pre-empt sexual abuse. Yes, the cancer of sexual abuse against women that we see in Christian majority America is just as prevalent in Muslim majority Pakistan, but also in Hindu majority India and state atheist China. This proves that men worldwide are failing in our responsibility to end sexual abuse and gender based violence.

Let’s start by understanding two facts. First, a woman’s attire, alcohol intake, marital status, and education level do not contribute to sexual abuse – abusive men do. Second, sexual abuse doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Every level of society – social norms, media, and Government – is complicit in promoting the rape culture that perpetuates sexual abuse.

Social norms demonise a woman for speaking out, victim-blaming her by asking what she was wearing, whether she gave signals inviting abuse, or asking why she didn’t speak up sooner.

The media also advances rape culture by disregarding women and their voices. Why didn’t the allegations against Weinstein gain clout when Rose McGowan screamed them from the top of her lungs years ago? Why has society advanced people like Harvey Weinstein, Roger Aisles, Bill Cosby, Bill O’Reilly, and even our Commander in Chief to the pinnacle of success, despite the decades long testimony of sexual abuse and rape from dozens of women?

How can we rely on government when 97 per cent of rapists never see a day in prison, judges punish rape of an unconscious college woman with a measly three months in jail, award rapists with equal custody of the child born from a woman they raped, and the US Department of Education rolls back rules that protect women in college from sexual assault?

The fact is that states are not moral actors – people are. But when people let bad behavior go unchallenged we inch closer to societal anarchy. In truth, any expectation that we can simply pass a law to stop sexual abuse is foolish.

Despite laws in France that criminalise sexual harassment, an astounding 100 per cent of French Parisian women on public transit report sexual harassment. France’s proposed response is legislation to ban cat-calling. Such legislation, if passed, will also fail because state laws only punish the actor once the act is completed, they don’t prevent the act in the first place. This scenario plays out repeatedly worldwide, whether we’re discussing “revenge porn”, gender based violence, or sexual harassment in the workplace.

This is where Islamic teachings and Prophet Muhammad’s example provide a solution that no state truly can. And while there are people who don’t believe that sexual abuse is even a problem, some on the left will disagree that accountability to a higher power is a solution.

This is a reasonable argument, in part, due to the hypocrisy of allegedly religious men like Congressman Tim Murphy, who condemns abortion and infidelity, yet was caught encouraging his mistress to have one, or former Indiana GOP chair Rick Halvorsen who was convicted of incest. Yes, Islam implores accountability to the creator, but rather than preach empty dogmatic theories, Islam instead prescribes a proven secular model.

In a recent internationally broadcast lecture given live before roughly 6,000 Muslim women, the Khalifa of Islam said, “Chapter four, verse two of the Holy Quran…clarifies that women were not created out of the body of a man or from his rib. Rather, the Quran testifies to the fact that men and women were created from a single soul and are of the same kind and species.”

Thus, the Quran 4:2 first establishes men and women as equal beings. Chapter 4:20 then forbids men from forcing a woman to act against her will, thereby ensuring women maintain autonomy and self-determination.

This verse also commands men to consort with women in kindness, forbidding men from so much as thinking ill of their wives. This preempts emotional and mental abuse. Chapter 4:35 furthermore prevents violence against women by forcing men to control themselves and never resort to physically harming women – preempting physical abuse.


Can't post the rest due to limits but I left the link.

In my opinion this article is very true and realistic, I have no doubt that the Christian based American society encourages and even silences women through fear of shunning and being ignored as liars. This comes ever more present with things like a rapist in the White House, or the gender wage gap, and is disgusting behavior in the "free and equal" America. What do you all think?

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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:01 pm

Yami-Chan wrote:Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/har ... 01521.html

If the Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse revelations shocked you, then you’re dangerously ignorant to reality. According to RAINN, an American is assaulted every 98 seconds, one out of every six women will deal with rape or attempted rape in her lifetime, and 90 per cent of rape victims are women.

I’m a Muslim, and a civil rights lawyer with a special interest in advocating for women’s rights. My advocacy is informed not just by the law, but by strategies detailed in Islamic teachings and Prophet Muhammad’s example to pre-empt sexual abuse. Yes, the cancer of sexual abuse against women that we see in Christian majority America is just as prevalent in Muslim majority Pakistan, but also in Hindu majority India and state atheist China. This proves that men worldwide are failing in our responsibility to end sexual abuse and gender based violence.

Let’s start by understanding two facts. First, a woman’s attire, alcohol intake, marital status, and education level do not contribute to sexual abuse – abusive men do. Second, sexual abuse doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Every level of society – social norms, media, and Government – is complicit in promoting the rape culture that perpetuates sexual abuse.

Social norms demonise a woman for speaking out, victim-blaming her by asking what she was wearing, whether she gave signals inviting abuse, or asking why she didn’t speak up sooner.

The media also advances rape culture by disregarding women and their voices. Why didn’t the allegations against Weinstein gain clout when Rose McGowan screamed them from the top of her lungs years ago? Why has society advanced people like Harvey Weinstein, Roger Aisles, Bill Cosby, Bill O’Reilly, and even our Commander in Chief to the pinnacle of success, despite the decades long testimony of sexual abuse and rape from dozens of women?

How can we rely on government when 97 per cent of rapists never see a day in prison, judges punish rape of an unconscious college woman with a measly three months in jail, award rapists with equal custody of the child born from a woman they raped, and the US Department of Education rolls back rules that protect women in college from sexual assault?

The fact is that states are not moral actors – people are. But when people let bad behavior go unchallenged we inch closer to societal anarchy. In truth, any expectation that we can simply pass a law to stop sexual abuse is foolish.

Despite laws in France that criminalise sexual harassment, an astounding 100 per cent of French Parisian women on public transit report sexual harassment. France’s proposed response is legislation to ban cat-calling. Such legislation, if passed, will also fail because state laws only punish the actor once the act is completed, they don’t prevent the act in the first place. This scenario plays out repeatedly worldwide, whether we’re discussing “revenge porn”, gender based violence, or sexual harassment in the workplace.

This is where Islamic teachings and Prophet Muhammad’s example provide a solution that no state truly can. And while there are people who don’t believe that sexual abuse is even a problem, some on the left will disagree that accountability to a higher power is a solution.

This is a reasonable argument, in part, due to the hypocrisy of allegedly religious men like Congressman Tim Murphy, who condemns abortion and infidelity, yet was caught encouraging his mistress to have one, or former Indiana GOP chair Rick Halvorsen who was convicted of incest. Yes, Islam implores accountability to the creator, but rather than preach empty dogmatic theories, Islam instead prescribes a proven secular model.

In a recent internationally broadcast lecture given live before roughly 6,000 Muslim women, the Khalifa of Islam said, “Chapter four, verse two of the Holy Quran…clarifies that women were not created out of the body of a man or from his rib. Rather, the Quran testifies to the fact that men and women were created from a single soul and are of the same kind and species.”

Thus, the Quran 4:2 first establishes men and women as equal beings. Chapter 4:20 then forbids men from forcing a woman to act against her will, thereby ensuring women maintain autonomy and self-determination.

This verse also commands men to consort with women in kindness, forbidding men from so much as thinking ill of their wives. This preempts emotional and mental abuse. Chapter 4:35 furthermore prevents violence against women by forcing men to control themselves and never resort to physically harming women – preempting physical abuse.


Can't post the rest due to limits but I left the link.

In my opinion this article is very true and realistic, I have no doubt that the Christian based American society encourages and even silences women through fear of shunning and being ignored as liars. This comes ever more present with things like a rapist in the White House, or the gender wage gap, and is disgusting behavior in the "free and equal" America. What do you all think?


I see absolutely no evidence that Islam will do any of these things any better. Quite a bit of proof to suggest the opposite.
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Atkemri
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Postby Atkemri » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:01 pm

Question:How is rape promoted when the very accusation can ruin a man's life?
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Webus
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Postby Webus » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Polygamous culture and preventing abuse to women are incompatible. I think the article is ridiculous.
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Kramania
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Postby Kramania » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:03 pm

And I'm sure Islam will do it better. As you can plainly see women are treated wonderfully in Muslim countries. Why, I heard that women in Saudi Arabia can actually drive cars now! Such a bastion of women's rights!
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Kramania
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Postby Kramania » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:03 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Yami-Chan wrote:Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/har ... 01521.html



Can't post the rest due to limits but I left the link.

In my opinion this article is very true and realistic, I have no doubt that the Christian based American society encourages and even silences women through fear of shunning and being ignored as liars. This comes ever more present with things like a rapist in the White House, or the gender wage gap, and is disgusting behavior in the "free and equal" America. What do you all think?


I see absolutely no evidence that Islam will do any of these things any better. Quite a bit of proof to suggest the opposite.

Can you spoiler that please?

Ffs.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:04 pm

Kramania wrote:
Cedoria wrote:
I see absolutely no evidence that Islam will do any of these things any better. Quite a bit of proof to suggest the opposite.

Can you spoiler that please?

Ffs.


No.
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Abolish the state!

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Elysaia
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Postby Elysaia » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:05 pm

You know, if a woman is raped in a Muslim country, she’s the one who will be getting stoned for that. That alone is kind of telling about how Islam treats women. Get thunk nigga /micdrop

Seriously though, you’re going to have abuse in either culture. Here in Christian countries, it’s bad, but not nearly as bad as the third world (say, Saudi Arabia) because we have support systems for the abused and society actively discourages abuse, and ostracizes and destroys those found to have been abusers.
Last edited by Elysaia on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:05 pm

This would be true if our fellow muslims actually followed the Prophet's pbub teachings, but they fail at that big time.
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Webus
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Postby Webus » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:05 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Kramania wrote:Can you spoiler that please?

Ffs.


No.

lel
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Kramania
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Postby Kramania » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:05 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Kramania wrote:Can you spoiler that please?

Ffs.


No.

*twitch*
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:06 pm

Aillyria wrote:This would be true if our fellow muslims actually followed the Prophet's pbub teachings, but they fail at that big time.

One might question the use of those teachings if they fail to the extent that those who believe them don't bother following them.
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Abolish the state!

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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:06 pm

Kramania wrote:
Cedoria wrote:
No.

*twitch*

If you'd been a little more polite I might have.
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Kramania
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Postby Kramania » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:07 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Kramania wrote:*twitch*

If you'd been a little more polite I might have.

Can you pretty please spoiler it?
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Lancaster of Wessex
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Postby Lancaster of Wessex » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Aillyria wrote:This would be true if our fellow muslims actually followed the Prophet's pbub teachings, but they fail at that big time.

One might question the use of those teachings if they fail to the extent that those who believe them don't bother following them.


Christians and Jews and people across the planet - not just people of Faith - are taught to love and respect each other. Yet we all fail, often, and miserably. I don't think those ideals should be abandoned just because we're crap at adhering to them. If anything, it's just incentive to try more.

EDIT: As for the op, no, I'm sorry, I don't care what the belief system is, there is no way to prevent this kind of behaviour.
Last edited by Lancaster of Wessex on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:13 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Aillyria wrote:This would be true if our fellow muslims actually followed the Prophet's pbub teachings, but they fail at that big time.

One might question the use of those teachings if they fail to the extent that those who believe them don't bother following them.

We humans habe a terrible habit of cherrypicking what we like out of our faiths, or just simply falling into the allure of our worldy desires. Hell, I'm guilty of this too, with my admitted love of alcohol lol. But it is our duty to ask Allah (swt) for forgiveness and try to do better. Unfortunately, most people don't care to try.

Webus wrote:Polygamous culture and preventing abuse to women are incompatible. I think the article is ridiculous.

Islamic polygamy isn't as binding on our culture as you'd believe atleast not per scripture. Muslim men aren't supposed to have more wifes than they can support, they're also ordered to not abuse or mistreat the wife(s) they do have. And women have the right again, according to scripture, to leave abusive husbands.
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist

West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".

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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Yami-Chan wrote:Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/har ... 01521.html

If the Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse revelations shocked you, then you’re dangerously ignorant to reality. According to RAINN, an American is assaulted every 98 seconds, one out of every six women will deal with rape or attempted rape in her lifetime, and 90 per cent of rape victims are women.

I’m a Muslim, and a civil rights lawyer with a special interest in advocating for women’s rights. My advocacy is informed not just by the law, but by strategies detailed in Islamic teachings and Prophet Muhammad’s example to pre-empt sexual abuse. Yes, the cancer of sexual abuse against women that we see in Christian majority America is just as prevalent in Muslim majority Pakistan, but also in Hindu majority India and state atheist China. This proves that men worldwide are failing in our responsibility to end sexual abuse and gender based violence.

Let’s start by understanding two facts. First, a woman’s attire, alcohol intake, marital status, and education level do not contribute to sexual abuse – abusive men do. Second, sexual abuse doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Every level of society – social norms, media, and Government – is complicit in promoting the rape culture that perpetuates sexual abuse.

Social norms demonise a woman for speaking out, victim-blaming her by asking what she was wearing, whether she gave signals inviting abuse, or asking why she didn’t speak up sooner.

The media also advances rape culture by disregarding women and their voices. Why didn’t the allegations against Weinstein gain clout when Rose McGowan screamed them from the top of her lungs years ago? Why has society advanced people like Harvey Weinstein, Roger Aisles, Bill Cosby, Bill O’Reilly, and even our Commander in Chief to the pinnacle of success, despite the decades long testimony of sexual abuse and rape from dozens of women?

How can we rely on government when 97 per cent of rapists never see a day in prison, judges punish rape of an unconscious college woman with a measly three months in jail, award rapists with equal custody of the child born from a woman they raped, and the US Department of Education rolls back rules that protect women in college from sexual assault?

The fact is that states are not moral actors – people are. But when people let bad behavior go unchallenged we inch closer to societal anarchy. In truth, any expectation that we can simply pass a law to stop sexual abuse is foolish.

Despite laws in France that criminalise sexual harassment, an astounding 100 per cent of French Parisian women on public transit report sexual harassment. France’s proposed response is legislation to ban cat-calling. Such legislation, if passed, will also fail because state laws only punish the actor once the act is completed, they don’t prevent the act in the first place. This scenario plays out repeatedly worldwide, whether we’re discussing “revenge porn”, gender based violence, or sexual harassment in the workplace.

This is where Islamic teachings and Prophet Muhammad’s example provide a solution that no state truly can. And while there are people who don’t believe that sexual abuse is even a problem, some on the left will disagree that accountability to a higher power is a solution.

This is a reasonable argument, in part, due to the hypocrisy of allegedly religious men like Congressman Tim Murphy, who condemns abortion and infidelity, yet was caught encouraging his mistress to have one, or former Indiana GOP chair Rick Halvorsen who was convicted of incest. Yes, Islam implores accountability to the creator, but rather than preach empty dogmatic theories, Islam instead prescribes a proven secular model.

In a recent internationally broadcast lecture given live before roughly 6,000 Muslim women, the Khalifa of Islam said, “Chapter four, verse two of the Holy Quran…clarifies that women were not created out of the body of a man or from his rib. Rather, the Quran testifies to the fact that men and women were created from a single soul and are of the same kind and species.”

Thus, the Quran 4:2 first establishes men and women as equal beings. Chapter 4:20 then forbids men from forcing a woman to act against her will, thereby ensuring women maintain autonomy and self-determination.

This verse also commands men to consort with women in kindness, forbidding men from so much as thinking ill of their wives. This preempts emotional and mental abuse. Chapter 4:35 furthermore prevents violence against women by forcing men to control themselves and never resort to physically harming women – preempting physical abuse.


Can't post the rest due to limits but I left the link.

In my opinion this article is very true and realistic, I have no doubt that the Christian based American society encourages and even silences women through fear of shunning and being ignored as liars. This comes ever more present with things like a rapist in the White House, or the gender wage gap, and is disgusting behavior in the "free and equal" America. What do you all think?

Fucking really? I don't see any suggestion to end sexual abuse, unless he's suggesting some sort of theocracy. So seems like a bunch of fucking bullshit really.

E: Also seems like it would be easy for a Christian fundie to make a similar argument, just in Christianity's favor.
Last edited by Sovaal on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:17 pm

Yami-Chan wrote:
90 per cent of rape victims are women.


Daily reminder that this is only true if one uses a blatantly sexist definition of rape, and if you use a nonsexist one it's between 45-70%, depending on your sample.
Last edited by Galloism on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Galloism wrote:
Yami-Chan wrote:


Daily reminder that this is only true if one uses a blatantly sexist definition of rape, and if you use a nonsexist one it's between 45-70%, depending on your sample.

Well the thread is basically about how an Islamic theocracy would make society better so I doubt you'll get much sense here.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:20 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Galloism wrote:
Daily reminder that this is only true if one uses a blatantly sexist definition of rape, and if you use a nonsexist one it's between 45-70%, depending on your sample.

Well the thread is basically about how an Islamic theocracy would make society better so I doubt you'll get much sense here.

Heh.

Well, true. It's just I hate to see this particular blatant sexist misuse of statistics pass unchallenged. Kind of a pet peeve.
Last edited by Galloism on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Webus
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Postby Webus » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:21 pm

Aillyria wrote:
Webus wrote:Polygamous culture and preventing abuse to women are incompatible. I think the article is ridiculous.

Islamic polygamy isn't as binding on our culture as you'd believe atleast not per scripture. Muslim men aren't supposed to have more wifes than they can support, they're also ordered to not abuse or mistreat the wife(s) they do have. And women have the right again, according to scripture, to leave abusive husbands.

Polygamy is inherently abusive. Regardless, as you said, practice and scripture are more often then not, at least in this regard, different.
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Shang Leros
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Postby Shang Leros » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:22 pm

>says Islam can stop abuse of women
>Points out that abuse of women in Islamic society is as bad as anywhere elsr

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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:22 pm

Shortly, preposterous and full of bull.
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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:23 pm

Webus wrote:
Aillyria wrote:Islamic polygamy isn't as binding on our culture as you'd believe atleast not per scripture. Muslim men aren't supposed to have more wifes than they can support, they're also ordered to not abuse or mistreat the wife(s) they do have. And women have the right again, according to scripture, to leave abusive husbands.

Polygamy is inherently abusive. Regardless, as you said, practice and scripture are more often then not, at least in this regard, different.

I somewhat agree with this, as I don't personally think polygamy is a good idea in general. But it is permitted in the Quran.
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist

West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".

L/R: -5.38 L/A: +2.36 8values: Theocratic Distributist
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Iridencia
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Postby Iridencia » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:27 pm

*deep breath* ........ No.

Aillyria wrote:Islamic polygamy isn't as binding on our culture as you'd believe atleast not per scripture. Muslim men aren't supposed to have more wifes than they can support, they're also ordered to not abuse or mistreat the wife(s) they do have. And women have the right again, according to scripture, to leave abusive husbands.


No.


"4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."
Last edited by Iridencia on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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