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[DRAFT] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

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Palos Heights
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[DRAFT] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

Postby Palos Heights » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am

First time submitting an issue here! It's one regarding Pleistocene rewilding.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DRAFT 1
[title] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

[validity] All nations

[description] Scientists, paleontologists, and environmentalists have approached your office about a unique opportunity to revitalize the environment by reintroducing analogues to once prevalent megafauna.

[option 1] Slamming a massive fossil down on your desk is paleontologist Megan Therium. “@@NAME@@, our lands once were home to giant woolly mammoths, ground sloths, and even the famous dire @@ANIMAL@@. As these animals have since disappeared, their absence has been felt throughout the ecosystems of our nation! By reintroducing animals that fill those same ecological roles we can help revitalize our environment! Sure some of them might require some genetic modification to survive here but what's a mutation or two going to do?” Excitedly readjusting her glasses, “All we ask is that sections of land be cordoned off and turned into nature reserves that our new animals will return to!”

[fallout 1] home insurance rates spike after herds of hairy elephants trample suburban petunia patches

[option 2] “Harrumph!” grunts Nedwina Anders, née Thal, a farmer with horrible hirsutism. “These animals have gone extinct and should stay extinct!” Plopping a map down on your desk over the massive fossil, “By reintroducing many of these animals you will put the breadbasket of @@NATION@@ at stake and thus our livelihoods! Sure it’d be nice to see some harrumphalumps and doozles around, but not if they kill my cattle and trample my grain! If anything, you should give us more land so we can work harder for the @@DEMONUMPLURAL@@! I reckon they might even learn to appreciate nature more if you do.”

[fallout 2] The Great @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Dust Bowl eclipses record production of corn

[option 3] “Forget about all of this environment and beef nonsense” retorts cigar-chomping General Alex “Squints” Quargesimus. “Imagine the ferocity with which a fully grown ah-dult dire @@ANIMAL@@ will display on the battlefield against our enemies.” Rubbing his jaw with pride, “I can see it now. A squad of 10 dire @@ANIMAL@@ replacing an entire company of soldiers. Our enemy wouldn’t know what hit em.” Staring at the window while putting out his cigar on his forearm, “@@LEADER@@, help fund my dream and I promise you we will make an empire on which the sun never sets.”

[fallout 3] inner city gangs fight turf wars using military-grade theropods obtained on the black market

[option 4] “HERESY!!!” Bursting into your office while dragging four interns around their legs is Supreme Exarch Marshall Inch. “These beasts are an affront to God and those infernal stones are but a test from the mighty one!” He takes a moment to catch his breath before spiking a massive holy text onto your desk. “@@NAME@@, you must immediately cease all talk of this genetics and biology mumbo jumbo and return your people to God! Let the idle thoughts of children stay with children, and use your powers to save your people from an eternity of damnation!”

[fallout 4] describing pigeons as “rats with wings” has been deemed heretical


DRAFT 2
[title] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

[validity] Scientifically advanced nations (specific level pending)

[description] Scientists, paleontologists, and environmentalists have approached your office about a unique opportunity to revitalize the environment by reintroducing analogues to once prevalent megafauna.

[option 1] Slamming a massive fossil down on your desk is paleontologist Megan Therium. “@@LEADER@@, our lands once were home to giant woolly mammoths, ground sloths, and even the famous dire @@ANIMAL@@. As these animals have since disappeared, their absence has been felt throughout the ecosystems of our nation! By reintroducing animals that fill those same ecological roles we can help revitalize our environment! Sure some of them might require some genetic modification to survive, but what's a mutation or two?” Excitedly readjusting her glasses and biting into a ripe avocado, the eager paleontologist states, “All we ask is that sections of land be cordoned off and turned into nature reserves that our new animals will return to!”

[fallout 1] home insurance rates spike after herds of hairy elephants trample suburban petunia patches

[option 2] “Harrumph!” grunts Nedwina Anders, née Thal, a farmer with horrible hirsutism. “These animals have gone extinct and should stay extinct! By reintroducing many of these animals you will put the breadbasket of @@NATION@@ at stake and thus our livelihoods! Sure it’d be nice to see some harrumphalumps and doozles around, but not if they kill my cattle and trample my grain! If anything, you should give us more land so we can work harder for @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@! I reckon they might even learn to appreciate nature more if you do.”

[fallout 2] The Great @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Dust Bowl eclipses record production of corn

[option 3] “Forget about all of this environment and beef nonsense” retorts cigar-chomping General Alex “Squints” Quargesimus. “Imagine the ferocity with which a fully grown ah-dult dire @@ANIMAL@@ will display on the battlefield against our enemies.” Rubbing his jaw with pride while staring out the window, General Alex puts out his cigar on his forearm and continues, “I can see it now. A squad of 10 dire @@ANIMAL@@ replacing an entire company of soldiers. Our enemy wont know what hit 'em. @@LEADER@@, fund my dream and I promise you that we will wipe our pathetic enemies off the face of the planet.”

[fallout 3] inner city gangs fight turf wars using military-grade theropods obtained on the black market

[option 4] Bursting into your office while dragging four interns around their legs is Supreme Exarch Marshall Inch. Shaking off the futile attempts to keep him from your office Supreme Exarch Inch barks, "HERESY! These beasts are an affront to God and those infernal stones are but a test from the mighty one! @@LEADER@@, you must immediately cease all talk of this genetics and biology mumbo jumbo and return your people to God! Let the idle thoughts of children stay with children, and use your powers to save your people from an eternity of damnation!” After taking a moment to catch his breath the Supreme Exarch spikes a massive holy text onto your desk and saunters out of your office.

[fallout 4] describing pigeons as “rats with wings” has been deemed heretical


DRAFT 3
[title] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

[validity] Scientifically advanced nations (specific level pending)

[description] Scientists, paleontologists, and environmentalists have approached your office about a unique opportunity to revitalize the environment by reintroducing analogues to now extinct megafauna.

[option 1] Slamming a massive fossil down on your desk is paleontologist Megan Therium. “@@LEADER@@, our lands once were home to giant woolly mammoths, ground sloths, and even the famous dire @@ANIMAL@@. As these animals have disappeared, their absence has been felt throughout the ecosystems of our nation!" Pointing to a patch of desert on the map, "@@LEADER@@, did you know that used to be a lush forest? By reintroducing animals that fill those same ecological roles we can help rejuvenate our environment! Sure some of them might require some genetic tinkering to survive, but what's a mutation or two?” Excitedly readjusting her glasses and biting into a ripe avocado, the eager paleontologist states, “All we ask is that sections of land be cordoned off and turned into nature reserves that our new animals will return to!”

[fallout 1] home insurance rates spike after herds of hairy elephants trample suburban petunia patches

[option 2] “Harrumph!” grunts Nedwina Anders, née Thal, a farmer with horrible hirsutism. “These animals have gone extinct and should stay extinct! By reintroducing many of these animals you will put the breadbasket of @@NATION@@ at stake and thus our livelihoods! Sure it’d be nice to see some harrumphalumps and doozles around, but not if they kill my cattle and trample my grain! If anything, you should give us more land so we can work harder for @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@! I reckon they might even learn to appreciate nature more if you do.”

[fallout 2] The Great @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Dust Bowl eclipses record production of corn

[option 3] “Forget about all of this environment and beef nonsense” retorts cigar-chomping General Alex “Squints” Quargesimus. “Imagine the ferocity with which a fully grown ah-dult dire @@ANIMAL@@ will display on the battlefield against our enemies.” Rubbing his jaw with pride while staring out the window, General Alex puts out his cigar on his forearm and continues, “I can see it now. A squad of 10 dire @@ANIMAL@@ replacing an entire company of soldiers. Our enemy wont know what hit 'em. @@LEADER@@, fund my dream and I promise you that we will wipe our pathetic enemies off the face of the planet.”

[fallout 3] inner city gangs fight turf wars using military-grade theropods obtained on the black market

[option 4] Bursting into your office while dragging four interns around their legs is Supreme Exarch Marshall Inch. Shaking off the futile attempts to keep him from your office Supreme Exarch Inch barks, "HERESY! These beasts are an affront to God and those infernal stones are but a test from the mighty one! @@LEADER@@, you must immediately cease all talk of this genetics and biology mumbo jumbo and return your people to God! Let the idle thoughts of children stay with children, and use your powers to save your people from an eternity of damnation!” After taking a moment to catch his breath the Supreme Exarch spikes a massive holy text onto your desk and saunters out of your office.

[fallout 4] describing pigeons as “rats with wings” has been deemed heretical


DRAFT 4
[title] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

[validity] Scientifically advanced nations (specific level pending)

[description] Scientists, paleontologists, and environmentalists have approached your office about a unique opportunity to revitalize the environment by reintroducing analogues to now extinct megafauna.

[option 1] Slamming a massive fossil down on your desk is paleontologist Megan Therium. “@@LEADER@@, our lands once were home to giant woolly mammoths, ground sloths, and even the famous dire @@ANIMAL@@. As these animals have disappeared, their absence has been felt throughout the ecosystems of our nation!" Pointing to a patch of desert on the map, "@@LEADER@@, did you know that used to be a lush forest? By reintroducing animals that fill the same roles as the extinct animals, such as the Brasilistani elephant, we could bring our environment back to what it once was.” Excitedly readjusting her glasses and biting into a ripe avocado, the eager paleontologist states, “All we ask is that sections of land be turned into nature reserves where we reintroduce our new animals!”

[fallout 1] home insurance rates spike after herds of hairy elephants trample suburban petunia patches

[option 2] “Harrumph!” grunts Nedwina Anders, née Thal, a farmer with horrible hirsutism. “@@LEADER@@ you cannot honestly think that letting a bunch of lions, tigers, and bears loose into our lands is a good idea. Oh my, by reintroducing many of these animals you would put both the breadbasket of @@NATION@@ at stake and our livelihoods! Sure it’d be nice to see some harrumphalumps and doozles around, but not if they kill my cattle and trample my grain! If anything, you should give us more land so we can work harder for @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@!”

[fallout 2] The Great @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Dust Bowl eclipses record production of corn

[option 3] “Forget about all of this eco-beef nonsense” retorts cigar-chomping General Alex “Squints” Quargesimus as he picks up the fossil and squints at it longingly. “We have the technology to bring these beasts back from extinction. Imagine the ferocity with which a fully grown ah-dult dire @@ANIMAL@@ will display on the battlefield against our enemies.” Rubbing his jaw with pride while squinting out the window, General Alex puts out his cigar on his forearm and continues, “I can see it now. A squad of 10 dire @@ANIMAL@@ replacing an entire company of soldiers. Our enemy wont know what hit 'em. @@LEADER@@, fund my dream and I promise you that we will wipe our pathetic enemies off the face of this planet.”

[fallout 3] inner city gangs fight turf wars using military-grade theropods obtained on the black market

[option 4] Bursting into your office while dragging four interns around their legs is Supreme Exarch Marshall Inch. Shaking off the futile attempts to keep him from your office Supreme Exarch Inch barks, "HERESY! Reviving beasts is an affront to the almighty and those infernal fossils are nothing more than a test of our faith! @@LEADER@@, you must immediately cease all talk of this genetics and biology mumbo jumbo and return your people to religion! Let the idle thoughts of children stay with children, and use your powers to save your people from an eternity of damnation!” After taking a moment to catch his breath the Supreme Exarch spikes a massive holy text onto your desk and saunters out of your office.

[fallout 4] describing pigeons as “rats with wings” has been deemed heretical
Last edited by Palos Heights on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:06 pm

Allo, Forest Keeper! Nice of you to use your first ever forum post to join your regionmates in issueland!

Have to say, regional connections aside, I'm really impressed. This is really strong writing for a first time drafter, and I love the character names.

Will try and pick some holes later, unless Ransium gets here first.
Editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people.

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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:29 pm

Thank you Dr. Candlewhisper.

I appreciate the kind words, it truly means a lot to hear that from you. I'm glad you appreciate the names so much too, I wanted to really mix things up there.

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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:17 pm

@@NAME@@ gives the nation name, not the leader, your want @@leader@@.

I think this is too close to bringing back dinosaurs to ignore that some nations have done that. I would throw in a mention of dinosaurs in a doppelgänger option somewhere.

For the validity I'd probably want a fairly robust level of technological advancement.

Dialogue interruptions (besides the standard dialogue tag) make for rough reading; I would try to limit yourself to one per issue max, and I would definitely avoid an option with two of them.

I'm a traditionalist in that I like a says-like verb attached to my dialogue (in 1), not every editor agrees though.

It's a really good issue, the amount of good writers in Forest compared to the game is starting to become so statistically improbable so as to be concerning.
Last edited by Ransium on Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Substitute 'damn' every time you're inclined to write 'very'; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be." ~Mark Twain
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Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, and GA 403.
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:43 pm

Ransium wrote:@@NAME@@ gives the nation name, not the leader, your want @@leader@@.

I think this is too close to bringing back dinosaurs to ignore that some nations have done that. I would throw in a mention of dinosaurs in a doppelgänger option somewhere.

For the validity I'd probably want a fairly robust level of technological advancement.

Dialogue interruptions (besides the standard dialogue tag) make for rough reading; I would try to limit yourself to one per issue max, and I would definitely avoid an option with two of them.

I'm a traditionalist in that I like a says-like verb attached to my dialogue (in 1), not every editor agrees though.

It's a really good issue, the amount of good writers in Forest compared to the game is starting to become so statistically improbable so as to be concerning.


Thank you for the feedback Ransium. When you say dialogue interruptions, are you referring to the gap in-between quotes? I've always felt that it's weird to have both lengthy, run-on quotes and/or multiple quotes back to back. In my head I thought I was circumventing an issue but I'll try and tinker with that below. I get where you're coming from regarding the says-like verb although I feel that having it too much often becomes a crutch and ends up getting repeated, albeit after rounds of wordsmithing, and I was hoping to avoid that.

Regarding the validity and the nature of the issue. I agree with the technological advancement, but not to the extent that someone has to be in the Top 5% of Scientific Advancement. The reality of what Pleistocene Rewilding is, in actuality, is reintroducing animals that once existed to rejuvenate the ecosystem. So it's not necessarily reintroducing woolly mammoths so much as its introducing the closest genetic analogue (in the case of the woolly mammoth the Asian Elephant) and making sure that the analogues have ample genetic expressions to ensure survival in some of these environments (in this case more hair which could also be selectively bred, albeit over long periods of time for elephants). In the past, with issues that have been tied to technological advancement, how have those limits and associations been set and what would you recommend?

Also, regarding bringing back dinosaurs, I refer to Option 3 which is basically what Vince D'Onofrio's character in Jurassic World wished to accomplish. Also theropods are a type of dinosaur. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theropoda , so I got the dinosaur reference covered there ;) .

Lastly, I was struggling with the fallout bit for option 4. I can't tell what sounds better, deemed heresy or deemed heretical? What are your thoughts?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DRAFT 2

[title] Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

[validity] Scientifically advanced nations (specific level pending)

[description] Scientists, paleontologists, and environmentalists have approached your office about a unique opportunity to revitalize the environment by reintroducing analogues to once prevalent megafauna.

[option 1] Slamming a massive fossil down on your desk is paleontologist Megan Therium. “@@LEADER@@, our lands once were home to giant woolly mammoths, ground sloths, and even the famous dire @@ANIMAL@@. As these animals have since disappeared, their absence has been felt throughout the ecosystems of our nation! By reintroducing animals that fill those same ecological roles we can help revitalize our environment! Sure some of them might require some genetic modification to survive, but what's a mutation or two?” Excitedly readjusting her glasses and biting into a ripe avocado, the eager paleontologist states, “All we ask is that sections of land be cordoned off and turned into nature reserves that our new animals will return to!”

[fallout 1] home insurance rates spike after herds of hairy elephants trample suburban petunia patches

[option 2] “Harrumph!” grunts Nedwina Anders, née Thal, a farmer with horrible hirsutism. “These animals have gone extinct and should stay extinct! By reintroducing many of these animals you will put the breadbasket of @@NATION@@ at stake and thus our livelihoods! Sure it’d be nice to see some harrumphalumps and doozles around, but not if they kill my cattle and trample my grain! If anything, you should give us more land so we can work harder for @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@! I reckon they might even learn to appreciate nature more if you do.”

[fallout 2] The Great @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Dust Bowl eclipses record production of corn

[option 3] “Forget about all of this environment and beef nonsense” retorts cigar-chomping General Alex “Squints” Quargesimus. “Imagine the ferocity with which a fully grown ah-dult dire @@ANIMAL@@ will display on the battlefield against our enemies.” Rubbing his jaw with pride while staring out the window, General Alex puts out his cigar on his forearm and continues, “I can see it now. A squad of 10 dire @@ANIMAL@@ replacing an entire company of soldiers. Our enemy wont know what hit 'em. @@LEADER@@, fund my dream and I promise you that we will wipe our pathetic enemies off the face of the planet.”

[fallout 3] inner city gangs fight turf wars using military-grade theropods obtained on the black market

[option 4] Bursting into your office while dragging four interns around their legs is Supreme Exarch Marshall Inch. Shaking off the futile attempts to keep him from your office Supreme Exarch Inch barks, "HERESY! These beasts are an affront to God and those infernal stones are but a test from the mighty one! @@LEADER@@, you must immediately cease all talk of this genetics and biology mumbo jumbo and return your people to God! Let the idle thoughts of children stay with children, and use your powers to save your people from an eternity of damnation!” After taking a moment to catch his breath the Supreme Exarch spikes a massive holy text onto your desk and saunters out of your office.

[fallout 4] describing pigeons as “rats with wings” has been deemed heretical
Last edited by Palos Heights on Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:52 pm

Typically, people expect the first post to have the most up-to-date draft, with earlier drafts placed in spoilers.
"Substitute 'damn' every time you're inclined to write 'very'; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be." ~Mark Twain
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Ransium wrote:Typically, people expect the first post to have the most up-to-date draft, with earlier drafts placed in spoilers.


Thank you, fixed that.

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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Bump

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Hello, Seev! :D
Take and leave what you want from below, as I myself am not a very experience author. :P

Lets get started. >:3

Now, there are a few things I wanted to point out.
Firstly, we have an issue recreating feather-bellied @@ANIMAL@@s in #033: Genetics Brings New Life to Extinct Species,
and secondly, we have an issue recreating dinosaurs in #474: Mesozoic Park.

That's not to say, however, that this couldn't be a followup issue to #033, and I think it's different enough from #474 to be fine.

I also wanted to mention that option 2 doesn't really fit the issue, very well, and placing option 4 there might work better.

Now, because of #033, I think that it also might not hurt to add "exterminate those feather-bellied @@ANIMAL@@s" - but only if you want this to be a followup.
Otherwise, just disregard it. :P

Another possible option that could go between 1 and 2/3(/4 if you decide to keep it) would be to allow their creation, but keep them in highly secure zoos
- which'd only be available to nations that haven't banned zoos. :P

Another thing that really concerns me, though - and this is the most important one, by far:
Addressing the Hairy Elephant in the Room

This is the title, and you couldn't have named one of the elephant-like creatures after Caracasus? :rofl:

Simply put, I think this issue needs a bit of work, though I do think it could definitely work as a followup to #033 with a Caracasus reference.
That's all I have for now. Good luck, Seev. :)
Don't mind me, just signatureless atm.

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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:11 am

Jutsa,

Thank you very much for your insight!

I greatly appreciate you getting to it.

First and foremost, the concept behind this issue, Pleistocene Rewilding, is focused on revitalizing environments by rebuilding the food web that once existed in aforementioned environment. Reintroducing animals and plants into ecosystems is not a foreign idea for altering the environment.

For example, in the Sahel region of Africa, there is a project that seeks to push back the boundaries of the Sahara by planting trees that will hold down the soil and prevent desertification.
http://www.greatgreenwall.org/great-green-wall/

Furthermore, in North America, specifically in Yellowstone National Park, the reintroduction of wolves physically altered the environment in ways unimaginable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q is an interesting video on this phenomena.

Option 2 is there because the general idea behind Pleistocene Rewilding is reintroducing large animals back into nature and that this would require a great amount of land from both public sources and private sources. Option 2 is the public response (and a popular argument against reintroducing megafauna) to reintroducing megafauna into the environment. If you worked in the agriculture business and someone told you that they were going to be introducing a pride of lions into the wild around your home or a herd of elephants then you might have some reservations about the issue moving forward.

With regards to your point about Issue #033, I did initially consider this, especially seeing as I mentioned genetic tampering with some species. I made a conscious decision not to branch this off of Issue #033 because I felt that this issue is too different in terms of core concept to branch it off of genetically bringing extinct species back to life. Issue #033, if I recall correctly, involved using close relatives and cloning to bring extinct species back to life whereas Pleistocene Rewilding is much simpler. To put it in laymans terms, Issue #033 would have you insert woolly mammoth DNA into an asian elephant embryo and "clone" the woolly mammoth in that regard and then repeat the process with the subsequent progeny until you had a genetically stable and ecologically viable woolly mammoth population ready to be reintroduced to the world. Per my suggested issue, rather than go through all of those steps to recreate the woolly mammoth, we would simply reintroduce asian elephants with greater coats of body hair into more favorable environments that the woolly mammoth once resided in. Issue #033 is about the animals themselves whereas my proposed issue is more around utilizing animals to revitalize the environment.

Perhaps I should make that more clear in Option 1?

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Postby Jutsa » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:47 am

Aaah! That makes sense now. :blush:

Yeah, if you could perhaps try and detail that a bit better.

Also, I still wanna see a Caracasus reference in here >:3
Don't mind me, just signatureless atm.

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Postby Trotterdam » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:18 pm

I've heard if the concept before, though I'm not sure what to think of it. I have a feeling that it sounds suspiciously like cargo cult environmentalism, trying to "improve" the environment by introducing elements that are vaguely similar to what was there in the distant past.

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Postby Palos Heights » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:29 pm

Trotterdam wrote:I've heard if the concept before, though I'm not sure what to think of it. I have a feeling that it sounds suspiciously like cargo cult environmentalism, trying to "improve" the environment by introducing elements that are vaguely similar to what was there in the distant past.


In some cases it might indeed improve the environment, in other cases, probably not.

When you say that you aren't sure what to think of it, are you saying that about my issue or the concept of Pleistocene Rewilding itself?

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Postby Australian Republic » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:15 am

Your issue is a bittoo long, see if you can shorten it abit
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:57 am

Australian Republic wrote:Your issue is a bittoo long, see if you can shorten it abit


Too long as in too many options or too long as in shorten the options lengths?

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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:16 pm

It is fine as it is, lengthwise.

(Said the actress to the bishop)
Editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people.

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Postby Trotterdam » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:32 pm

Palos Heights wrote:When you say that you aren't sure what to think of it, are you saying that about my issue or the concept of Pleistocene Rewilding itself?
A little of both.

Currently, your draft is taking for granted that Pleistocene Rewilding would be a good thing, with the dissenting option sounding more like "I don't care about the environment" rather than "I don't think this is an effective way of helping the environment".

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Postby Palos Heights » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:51 am

Trotterdam wrote:
Palos Heights wrote:When you say that you aren't sure what to think of it, are you saying that about my issue or the concept of Pleistocene Rewilding itself?
A little of both.

Currently, your draft is taking for granted that Pleistocene Rewilding would be a good thing, with the dissenting option sounding more like "I don't care about the environment" rather than "I don't think this is an effective way of helping the environment".


I don't want to get rid of the option where local landowners and farmers give their dissent because often farmers and megafauna come into conflict when the predators prey on their livestock and the non-predatory species damage their farmland or graze on their crops.

Do you think adding another option in there talking about an alternative option would be warranted then? Because I can do that too.

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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:37 am

Hello Palos Heights!

Great issue here. I'll just have one question.

Has @@NAME@@ already created these "analogoues of extinct creatures?" I think your issue conflates two things: (1) creating these animals, and (2) allocating them a place to live. I believe the integrity of the issue also depends on clarifying which of these two things you want to focus on. I am asking this, because it seems the person in Option 1 takes it for granted that these animals are already there, and the real problem @@LEADER@@ needs to tackle is to designate an area as a nature reserve for them to live. The same is true for the speaker in Option 3. He also seems to presuppose that the animals have already been genetically engineered.

But this doesn't appear to be the case in Option 2 (see the parts in bold):

“Harrumph!” grunts Nedwina Anders, née Thal, a farmer with horrible hirsutism. “These animals have gone extinct and should stay extinct! By reintroducing many of these animals you will put the breadbasket of @@NATION@@ at stake and thus our livelihoods! Sure it’d be nice to see some harrumphalumps and doozles around, but not if they kill my cattle and trample my grain! If anything, you should give us more land so we can work harder for @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@! I reckon they might even learn to appreciate nature more if you do.”


In option 4, as well, it seems the animals haven't been created yet (or else the guy would probably suggest killing the animals that have been created so far, I thought).

Bursting into your office while dragging four interns around their legs is Supreme Exarch Marshall Inch. Shaking off the futile attempts to keep him from your office Supreme Exarch Inch barks, "HERESY! These beasts are an affront to God and those infernal stones are but a test from the mighty one! @@LEADER@@, you must immediately cease all talk of this genetics and biology mumbo jumbo and return your people to God! Let the idle thoughts of children stay with children, and use your powers to save your people from an eternity of damnation!” After taking a moment to catch his breath the Supreme Exarch spikes a massive holy text onto your desk and saunters out of your office.


Also, perhaps a more fundamental question concerns the exact nature of the animals we are talking about. What does it mean to be "an analogue of an extinct creature" to begin with? Suppose an ecosystem had a saber-toothed tiger and it went extinct. Which animal do we introduce to this ecosystem to revitalize it? Do we genetically engineer a saber-toothed tiger? Or do we use a normal tiger as a substitute (or an analogue)?

It seems the speaker in Option 1 suggests that it is more like the latter case.

"By reintroducing animals that fill those same ecological roles we can help revitalize our environment! Sure some of them might require some genetic modification to survive[...]"

If they just fulfill the same ecological roles, they need not be the exact same animal. Also, she only talks about "some genetic modification," this is different from re-creating an extinct animal from scratch.

But then the second speaker seems to insinuate that you are going to re-create the exact same animals.

"These animals have gone extinct and should stay extinct! By reintroducing many of these animals you will [...]"

I think you might need to clarify these points first: (1) are we trying to create the same animals through genetic procedures, or are we going to use substitutes for them? and (2) What are we asking @@LEADER@@ to consent to? Creating/substituting these extinct animals OR allocating a place to those animals that have already been created/substituted (or are in the process of being created/substituted)?

Otherwise, great issue! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Palos Heights
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Posts: 23
Founded: Apr 25, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Palos Heights » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:19 pm

FuF thank you so much for your feedback! I took that into consideration when tinkering with the issues and decided to clarify it as you suggested :).

Let me know what you think!


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