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[PASSED] Promoting Sustainable Timber

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11407
Founded: May 14, 2007
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:57 pm

He Qixin 2 wrote:
Araraukar wrote:
Also, there's nothing Uan can do anymore to "be careful". A proposal cannot be withdrawn by author once it enters the voting stage. They also can't be edited after submitting, which is why your habit of spamming the submissions list with your own is so annoying. Also, I hope you've paid attention and realized that this drafting thread has existed for four months and is still in trouble, content-wise (regardless of what happens in the vote, because "sustainable" is a good feel-good word for people who vote based on proposal names).

"Oops, I meant 'to be wary of', thanks for the correcting," says jacknjellify.



Araraukar wrote:
"In my opinion this was submitted too soon after the change of direction; a couple of days are not long enough to gather replies from those who weren't paying it attention before, because they thought it fell outside of their area of expertize. Since the Grand Nation of Araraukar is against the ham-fisted attempts at industrial encouragement by the WA, our vote will be against"

OOC: agreed

OOC: Do you understand that "OOC" means "out of character"? You managed to reply in IC (in-character) to an OOC comment (which makes no sense as your IC character can't see/hear OOC stuff) and then replied in OOC to an IC comment. If you're doing that on purpose, it's getting very annoying. If you can't keep track of what comments are IC and what OOC, it's perhaps best for you to stick to OOC.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Teluva
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: May 09, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Teluva » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:34 pm

Imagine being a protectionist in 2018.

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MegaLand Union
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Apr 17, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Too Vague

Postby MegaLand Union » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:27 pm

What are the prohibitions nations have to abide by, it never states them, instead using vague wording like "sustainable" :eyebrow:

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The Rich Port
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Rich Port » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:45 pm

Image As a major economic power within... Any region that it has territory in, The Rich Port feels that it cannot properly prosper without the cooperation and the economic sustainability of other nation states that it shares borders with. We hope that this resolution shall encourage members to play catch up, as it were. By helping each other, we all profit, and profit is the engine of the nation.

The Rich Port enters a vote of FOR.
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FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
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Kenmoria
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:22 am

MegaLand Union wrote:What are the prohibitions nations have to abide by, it never states them, instead using vague wording like "sustainable" :eyebrow:

The resolution states:
"Prohibits member nations from importing from any source timber, or products made from timber, produced in a way not compliant with World Assembly legislation currently in force;"
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NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
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This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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He Qixin 2
Envoy
 
Posts: 232
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby He Qixin 2 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:08 am

-snip-
Last edited by He Qixin 2 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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He Qixin 2
Envoy
 
Posts: 232
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby He Qixin 2 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:09 am

Araraukar wrote:
He Qixin 2 wrote:"Oops, I meant 'to be wary of', thanks for the correcting," says jacknjellify.




OOC: agreed

OOC: Do you understand that "OOC" means "out of character"? You managed to reply in IC (in-character) to an OOC comment (which makes no sense as your IC character can't see/hear OOC stuff) and then replied in OOC to an IC comment. If you're doing that on purpose, it's getting very annoying. If you can't keep track of what comments are IC and what OOC, it's perhaps best for you to stick to OOC.



OOC: Sorry, I'm relatively new to RP and don't know you can't reply OOC with IC.
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Awyn
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 10, 2017
New York Times Democracy

The ban of non-WA wood

Postby Awyn » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:04 am

I would like a tariff on the non-WA compliant timber and products made with it rather than a ban.
"Wyn su fjyns eks."

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11407
Founded: May 14, 2007
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:27 am

He Qixin 2 wrote:OOC: Sorry, I'm relatively new to RP and don't know you can't reply OOC with IC.

OOC: OOC stuff is what you, the Real Life human player, see and hear and do and know about. IC stuff is what your character, the fictional ambassador and their starr, see and hear and do and know about. To your IC character, we, the players, do not exist, NationStates the game does not exist, the NS nations are real, the WA is real and the other IC characters are real.

So for your IC character to react to something that I, the RL person, say, rather than what my IC character says, makes no sense. They would in essence be talking to thin air and commenting on something that wasn't said.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Imperium Anglorum
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7423
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Do you understand that "OOC" means "out of character"? You managed to reply in IC (in-character) to an OOC comment (which makes no sense as your IC character can't see/hear OOC stuff)

Yea! Yea! This is impossible! Oh wait, you said it wasn't impossible over here. Which is it?

Araraukar wrote:and then replied in OOC to an IC comment.

That doesn't make any sense. You can, of course, do that. Because as a player, we can see IC things. Doesn't make any sense otherwise.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11407
Founded: May 14, 2007
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:35 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Oh wait, you said it wasn't impossible over here. Which is it?

OOC: That's an OOC post and only talks about the proposal being IC - are you sure you linked the right post?
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Tinfect
Senator
 
Posts: 4358
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tinfect » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:37 pm

Seretis arrives in the chamber, looking somewhat haggard, and beating a mysterious coating of dust off his hat. "The Imperium finds this legislation... lacking. It provides no standards of its own, and promotes nothing but an additional intrusive foreign entity into Member-States. To say very little of the numerous ways it can be subverted without noncompliance. The Imperium is opposed."
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Dirty Americans
Attaché
 
Posts: 86
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Dirty Americans » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:25 pm

I thought I had several objections to this resolution on the grounds of possible legality but I've managed to argue with myself and thus have dismissed them.

OOC: (But really ... is a prohibition the same as a "Protective Tariff" in terms of stat wank ... possibly yes or no so ... whatever.)

WE VOTE AYE!
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Austenesia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 22
Founded: Jan 30, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Austenesia » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:21 pm

A Statement read by Sebelius Bard, the Permanent Representative of the Commonwealth of Austenesia to the World Assembly on the floor of the General Assembly in response to the GA Resolution "Promoting Sustainable Timber"

My Fellow Delegates and Ambassadors,
The Commonwealth of Austenesia has never wavered in its support for taking meaningful and comprehensive actions that protect the environments of our respective countries. We are proud of the fact that we have some the best programs and regulations designed to protect our own natural resources and treasures, ensuring the health of our communities and the preservation of these natural gems for future generations. And we are proud to say that, unlike in many political systems, environmental protection is not seen as a partisan issue and more often than not, one of the issues many of our political groups can support wholeheartedly.

I would like to commend Uan aa Boa’s World Assembly delegation for their noble intentions in proposing this resolution. As a nation blessed with forests of our own, we are fully aware of how important forest preservation is to the environmental health of eco-systems all across the world. However, that said, we have some concerns about this resolution as proposed to the World Assembly in its present form.

First, we have concerns that this resolution will, in effect, hurt poorer nations that do not have the technology or political willpower to enact substantial environmental reforms. When poor states, who rely primarily on exported cheap timber, are faced with this boycott, this will only serve to further destabilize their economies which could very well lead to new immigration crises and worse, political instability and war as governments collapse.

Secondly, we feel that banning non-WAFC approved timber from being sold or distributed in World Assembly member states will only serve to provide black markets with another commodity to illegally trade and sell, further bolstering their organizations which also serve to spread crime and degradation throughout our societies.

Thirdly, we feel that these new regulations will make it only harder for furniture manufacturers as they will now have to get WAFC approval for all goods they sell to ensure they qualify with the provisions of this resolution. This will provide an undue burden on these manufacturers, many of whom (at least in our country) are middle class craftsmen or women who rely on their livelihood to pay their bills and would be put out of business by being forced to acquire approval for all products they craft and sell. In Austenesia, we work to discourage purchasing cheap timber from countries who ignore the World Assembly’s logging standards by giving them a special certification and promoting their services to give them a distinct edge over their competitors.

We feel that the best way forward for the World Assembly is to reject this resolution as written. The process of getting WAFC approval for every single lumber operation and manufactured product is one that will be burdensome, slow, and harmful to the economies of many member states. Instead, we believe World Assembly member nations should follow our example and address this issue on a national level alone by either incentivizing environmentally friendly logging practices or penalizing them in their own way through the responsible use of tariffs. Ideally, we would propose a tariff system instead of an all-out boycott and any tariff revenues generated can be used to support poorer nations who need financial assistance in helping institute better environmentally friendly forestry practices.

Therefore, the Commonwealth of Austenesia respectfully votes against this resolution.
Last edited by Austenesia on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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House Mar
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Oct 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby House Mar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:20 pm

Uan aa Boa wrote:Category: Advancement of Industry
Area of Effect: Protective Tariffs

Hereby

Prohibits member nations from importing from any source timber, or products made from timber, produced in a way not compliant with World Assembly legislation;




The traditional quill and parchment of the Queen's WA response was eschewed for a life size replica of the Queen of House Mar producing up crude and insulting gestures. She had been assured that the slab was illegally harvested from an ancient tree in a protected Bigtopian national park, and found the cost of its origin worth the price it cost, as it served to make her point all the better.

Being unskilled in the in woodworking herself, Yonda Mir issues her missive by dictation to a union carpenter who elegantly carves her words into a sassy slab of lumber.

  • "Promoting - to help or encourage to exist or flourish;"
  • "Encourage - to inspire with courage, spirit, or confidence"
  • "Prohibits - to forbid (an action, activity, etc.) by authority or law."

Yonda Mir read aloud to from the Grendle on her desk, she sweeps the digital encyclopedia and stood up to inspect her two-and-a-half-dimensional replica. "By seeking to compel, rather than to promote as suggested in the flowery language; the Dominion of House Mar rejects the proposal, and casts a vote against the bill currently on the floor."
Last edited by House Mar on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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He Qixin 2
Envoy
 
Posts: 232
Founded: Nov 16, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby He Qixin 2 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:09 pm

House Mar wrote:The traditional quill and parchment of the Queen's WA response was eschewed for a life size replica of the Queen of House Mar producing up crude and insulting gestures. She had been assured that the slab was illegally harvested from an ancient tree in a protected Bigtopian national park, and found the cost of its origin worth the price it cost, as it served to make her point all the better.

Being unskilled in the in woodworking herself, Yonda Mir issues her missive by dictation to a union carpenter who elegantly carves her words into a sassy slab of lumber.

  • "Promoting - to help or encourage to exist or flourish;"
  • "Encourage - to inspire with courage, spirit, or confidence"
  • "Prohibits - to forbid (an action, activity, etc.) by authority or law."

Yonda Mir read aloud to from the Grendle on her desk, she sweeps the digital encyclopedia and stood up to inspect her two-and-a-half-dimensional replica. "By seeking to compel, rather than to promote as suggested in the flowery language; the Dominion of House Mar rejects the proposal, and casts a vote against the bill currently on the floor."


"Surely you can't vote 'Against' just because of a mismatched word? Why did you do that?" asks jacknjellify. He sounds really frustrated right now.
Last edited by He Qixin 2 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"TNP is the best of the best! Or should I say, elite!" -jacknjellify

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Pun Of The Day: Iceland is such an ICE-olated isLAND!

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Singapork
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Oct 14, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Singapork » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:10 am

OPPOSE THIS SJW AGENDA TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD

TO HELL WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
Last edited by Singapork on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11407
Founded: May 14, 2007
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:25 am

He Qixin 2 wrote:"Surely you can't vote 'Against' just because of a mismatched word? Why did you do that?" asks jacknjellify. He sounds really frustrated right now.

"It's not mismatched word, it's mismatch of stated intention and then applied effect. It's like you promised someone that if they work really hard, you'll give them a special reward, but instead of rewarding them, if they don't work hard enough to suit your taste, you whip them brutally."
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Kenmoria
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:02 pm

He Qixin 2 wrote:
House Mar wrote:The traditional quill and parchment of the Queen's WA response was eschewed for a life size replica of the Queen of House Mar producing up crude and insulting gestures. She had been assured that the slab was illegally harvested from an ancient tree in a protected Bigtopian national park, and found the cost of its origin worth the price it cost, as it served to make her point all the better.

Being unskilled in the in woodworking herself, Yonda Mir issues her missive by dictation to a union carpenter who elegantly carves her words into a sassy slab of lumber.

  • "Promoting - to help or encourage to exist or flourish;"
  • "Encourage - to inspire with courage, spirit, or confidence"
  • "Prohibits - to forbid (an action, activity, etc.) by authority or law."

Yonda Mir read aloud to from the Grendle on her desk, she sweeps the digital encyclopedia and stood up to inspect her two-and-a-half-dimensional replica. "By seeking to compel, rather than to promote as suggested in the flowery language; the Dominion of House Mar rejects the proposal, and casts a vote against the bill currently on the floor."


"Surely you can't vote 'Against' just because of a mismatched word? Why did you do that?" asks jacknjellify. He sounds really frustrated right now.

"A single mismatched word can make a huge difference, ambassador, it is a complete difference between what is stated in the preamble and what the resolution actually does. In a case of law, as this one, it is vital to consider every error the cause of potential strife."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Kimderlopia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Dec 21, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Red Tape

Postby Kimderlopia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:57 pm

I'd rather decide all of this myself. Putting excess red tape, not only costs money, but reduces productivity. I know I'm thinking socially conservatively, but I trust member nations to put appropriate legislation in place so I can manage my forests in the best way possible. I'm all for being green, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

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Kenmoria
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:42 am

Kimderlopia wrote:I'd rather decide all of this myself. Putting excess red tape, not only costs money, but reduces productivity. I know I'm thinking socially conservatively, but I trust member nations to put appropriate legislation in place so I can manage my forests in the best way possible. I'm all for being green, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

In the WA, there is a vast array of dictatorships and dystopias who one certainly should not trust to put appropriate legislation in place.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Auralia
Senator
 
Posts: 4681
Founded: Dec 15, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Auralia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:36 am

Reasonable states can agree on the need for sustainable forest management while taking different approaches to achieve that goal. This resolution would impose an absolute ban on the importation of timber or timber products that are generally sourced sustainably but technically violate some administrative requirement from a World Assembly resolution or committee regulation.

This is a grossly disproportionate response. The incremental environmental damage resulting from a minor divergence in forestry standards would be nothing compared to the damage caused by an import ban, such as economic contraction and associated job losses in non-member states, as well as higher prices for consumers and manufacturers in member states.

With that said, non-member states are likely to comply with World Assembly law rather than undergo serious harm. The fact remains that they shouldn't have to -- environmental regulation simply doesn't justify this level of economic sanction. The World Assembly must respect the fact that non-member states are sovereign and have the right to create their own laws.

Accordingly, we have voted against this resolution.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly
Last edited by Auralia on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic Federation of Auralia
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Monetillia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: Jan 13, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Monetillia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:13 am

We are pleased to see that this legislation has passed. We were curious what we could do to enlist the aid of the WA in growing our black market endeavors. As it happens, the passage of this bill, while seemingly invasive in the private economies of its member nations, has actually done a great deal to increase the value of non-WA nation timber. Finding the passage of this resolution to be a poor attempt at dictating to the member nations how they are to be invested in and trading with non-WA nations, we will, in turn, be trading their lumber at an increased value and, as a result, make their economies stronger than ever. Furthermore, this will give us the opportunity to look like a benefactor to these nations by keeping the WA from bullying them into membership through a useless effort at depressing their economies while making a very tidy profit.

Well done, ladies and gents, and thank you.

With great delight,
The Monetillian Father Who Knows Best
Last edited by Monetillia on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5209
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wrapper » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:32 am

Promoting Sustainable Timber was passed 11,707 votes to 6,787.

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Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38357
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:36 pm

Wrapper wrote:
Promoting Sustainable Timber was passed 11,707 votes to 6,787.

What an unfortunate event
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