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Should Parents Have the Right to Force Religious Belief?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should parents be allowed to try to dictate a child's religious beliefs?

Yes, it's their child. Let them teach their child what they believe best.
44
17%
They can tell them about their beliefs, but allow them to convert to other things if they choose to.
141
53%
Certain religions, like ones that cause harm or do illegal things, shouldn't be legally accepted or taught by responsible parents.
23
9%
No, and don't plant seeds of your beliefs in their heads either.
30
11%
Mandatory teachings of the true god of man, Max Barry, for all youth.
27
10%
 
Total votes : 265

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Soyouso
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Should Parents Have the Right to Force Religious Belief?

Postby Soyouso » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household? If one believes that they've found the way to salvation and true happiness, they're likely going to want to share that with their offspring, just like when parents tell their children about their own experiences to teach them a lesson and make them less likely to repeat their mistakes. A parent, ideally, wants what they see is best for them.

Let's say (for the sake of noting that this convesation applies to any religious belief, I'll use meme-cult placeholders) there's a family of four. Mom, dad, two tween sons. They are devout worshippers of, uh, I don't know, Shrek? And because they are sure about the Ogrelord being the true path to salvation, they taught their children all about him. The first son was unsure of Shrek's existance, while the second son believed immediately and happily followed. The first discovered the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and felt the hole of confusion in his life was filled with this newfound joy. So he tells his parents about his new floating pasta lord.
His parents grounded him for blaspheming Shrek and insisted he was brainwashed, even though he converted on his own will. They banned him from attending mass to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and wouldn't let him do any of the acts to follow the new religion. If his friends believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he had to tell them to pretend to be worshippers of Shrek since they wouldn't be allowed to hang out if his parents learned of it. They did everything in their power to try to make the child believe in Shrek again.

Are these parents, no matter what you replace 'Shrek' and 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' with, doing the right thing? Should it be legal, or is this an injustice?

Honestly, while I'm Christian, I'm not going to put pressure on my children, if I have them, to believe in Jesus Christ. Religious belief shouldn't be something that's forced on you, but something you genuinely find joy in and genuinely believe without being pressured. God knows whether you really love Him or not. So I'd tell them about God, but not react in a hostile way if they doubt.

If my child came to me and said they wanted to convert to Islam, a religion that, keep in mind, I am strongly against, here's what'd happen. If I could tell they made the decision by their own desire and not pressuring, they are well informed on Muslim beliefs by their own research into the texts, and they're older than 14 (age may vary depending on religion) - then I'd accept it. I'd be very upset for a while. But I wouldn't try to stop them from pursuing what they believe is the truth, because if they passed my requirements, they did this on their own. They're my child, and I'd still love them and treat them like I did before. If they didn't fit the requirements, then I'd go over Islam's beliefs and values with them, reading straight from the text, and showing them what Shariah law is like. This way, they see what it'd really be like from an unbiased source, untouched by both my disapproval of Islam and a street preacher's advocacy of it.

They should know, however, that if they start supporting terrorism, or doing or justifying fucked up activities because "Muhammad said it was okay", I'm not going to defend them in it. And, if they're supporting terrorism, I'm turning them in. If Christians can ignore verses that would result in hurting people for the sake of not hurting people, so should they. Same with any other religion, it's not a pass to break the law. Any child of mine would understand why having respect for other people is important, so I doubt I'd even hopefully have to deal with that.

But if I see it's a cult where their leader is a man with shades with an obsession with socialism who likes giving people Kool Aid, I'm grabbing my child's arm and getting the fuck out of there.
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Postby Technograt founder » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:30 pm

Soyouso wrote:Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household? If one believes that they've found the way to salvation and true happiness, they're likely going to want to share that with their offspring, just like when parents tell their children about their own experiences to teach them a lesson and make them less likely to repeat their mistakes. A parent, ideally, wants what they see is best for them.

Let's say (for the sake of noting that this convesation applies to any religious belief, I'll use meme-cult placeholders) there's a family of four. Mom, dad, two tween sons. They are devout worshippers of, uh, I don't know, Shrek? And because they are sure about the Ogrelord being the true path to salvation, they taught their children all about him. The first son was unsure of Shrek's existance, while the second son believed immediately and happily followed. The first discovered the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and felt the hole of confusion in his life was filled with this newfound joy. So he tells his parents about his new floating pasta lord.
His parents grounded him for blaspheming Shrek and insisted he was brainwashed, even though he converted on his own will. They banned him from attending mass to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and wouldn't let him do any of the acts to follow the new religion. If his friends believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he had to tell them to pretend to be worshippers of Shrek since they wouldn't be allowed to hang out if his parents learned of it. They did everything in their power to try to make the child believe in Shrek again.

Are these parents, no matter what you replace 'Shrek' and 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' with, doing the right thing? Should it be legal, or is this an injustice?

Honestly, while I'm Christian, I'm not going to put pressure on my children, if I have them, to believe in Jesus Christ. Religious belief shouldn't be something that's forced on you, but something you genuinely find joy in and genuinely believe without being pressured. God knows whether you really love Him or not. So I'd tell them about God, but not react in a hostile way if they doubt.

If my child came to me and said they wanted to convert to Islam, a religion that, keep in mind, I am strongly against, here's what'd happen. If I could tell they made the decision by their own desire and not pressuring, they are well informed on Muslim beliefs by their own research into the texts, and they're older than 14 (age may vary depending on religion) - then I'd accept it. I'd be very upset for a while. But I wouldn't try to stop them from pursuing what they believe is the truth, because if they passed my requirements, they did this on their own. They're my child, and I'd still love them and treat them like I did before. If they didn't fit the requirements, then I'd go over Islam's beliefs and values with them, reading straight from the text, and showing them what Shariah law is like. This way, they see what it'd really be like from an unbiased source, untouched by both my disapproval of Islam and a street preacher's advocacy of it.

They should know, however, that if they start supporting terrorism, or doing or justifying fucked up activities because "Muhammad said it was okay", I'm not going to defend them in it. And, if they're supporting terrorism, I'm turning them in. If Christians can ignore verses that would result in hurting people for the sake of not hurting people, so should they. Same with any other religion, it's not a pass to break the law. Any child of mine would understand why having respect for other people is important, so I doubt I'd even hopefully have to deal with that.

But if I see it's a cult where their leader is a man with shades with an obsession with socialism who likes giving people Kool Aid, I'm grabbing my child's arm and getting the fuck out of there.

Not force, but just raise them that way, at around twelve years old the key to their beliefs should be unlocked so that they have the ability to convert to whatever or be athiest. But I will not support child abuse
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:30 pm

Soyouso wrote:Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household? If one believes that they've found the way to salvation and true happiness, they're likely going to want to share that with their offspring, just like when parents tell their children about their own experiences to teach them a lesson and make them less likely to repeat their mistakes. A parent, ideally, wants what they see is best for them.

Let's say (for the sake of noting that this convesation applies to any religious belief, I'll use meme-cult placeholders) there's a family of four. Mom, dad, two tween sons. They are devout worshippers of, uh, I don't know, Shrek? And because they are sure about the Ogrelord being the true path to salvation, they taught their children all about him. The first son was unsure of Shrek's existance, while the second son believed immediately and happily followed. The first discovered the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and felt the hole of confusion in his life was filled with this newfound joy. So he tells his parents about his new floating pasta lord.
His parents grounded him for blaspheming Shrek and insisted he was brainwashed, even though he converted on his own will. They banned him from attending mass to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and wouldn't let him do any of the acts to follow the new religion. If his friends believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he had to tell them to pretend to be worshippers of Shrek since they wouldn't be allowed to hang out if his parents learned of it. They did everything in their power to try to make the child believe in Shrek again.

Are these parents, no matter what you replace 'Shrek' and 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' with, doing the right thing? Should it be legal, or is this an injustice?

Honestly, while I'm Christian, I'm not going to put pressure on my children, if I have them, to believe in Jesus Christ. Religious belief shouldn't be something that's forced on you, but something you genuinely find joy in and genuinely believe without being pressured. God knows whether you really love Him or not. So I'd tell them about God, but not react in a hostile way if they doubt.

If my child came to me and said they wanted to convert to Islam, a religion that, keep in mind, I am strongly against, here's what'd happen. If I could tell they made the decision by their own desire and not pressuring, they are well informed on Muslim beliefs by their own research into the texts, and they're older than 14 (age may vary depending on religion) - then I'd accept it. I'd be very upset for a while. But I wouldn't try to stop them from pursuing what they believe is the truth, because if they passed my requirements, they did this on their own. They're my child, and I'd still love them and treat them like I did before. If they didn't fit the requirements, then I'd go over Islam's beliefs and values with them, reading straight from the text, and showing them what Shariah law is like. This way, they see what it'd really be like from an unbiased source, untouched by both my disapproval of Islam and a street preacher's advocacy of it.

They should know, however, that if they start supporting terrorism, or doing or justifying fucked up activities because "Muhammad said it was okay", I'm not going to defend them in it. And, if they're supporting terrorism, I'm turning them in. If Christians can ignore verses that would result in hurting people for the sake of not hurting people, so should they. Same with any other religion, it's not a pass to break the law. Any child of mine would understand why having respect for other people is important, so I doubt I'd even hopefully have to deal with that.

But if I see it's a cult where their leader is a man with shades with an obsession with socialism who likes giving people Kool Aid, I'm grabbing my child's arm and getting the fuck out of there.

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Postby Ameteurial Outdated Philosophia » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:35 pm

A foolish suggestion. A parent is capable of forcing a child to go to religious sermons and perform religious rituals, but the mind of the child is still free to make the decision of what they do or do not believe in. They are also free to lie about their belief or disbelief, as is their choice.

Regardless, I believe parents should have the rights to send children to religious institutions while the child is under their legal custody. I was sent to Roman Catholic Sunday school, and came out of it an agnostic. I may not have had a choice in what religious practices I attended or performed, but I had the choice of what I believed in, and am free on both regards today.
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Postby Gauthier » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:37 pm

Depends, do the parents worship Cthulhu?
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
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Dread Lady Nathicana
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Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:38 pm

You raise your kids the way you feel they would best benefit, and they make their own choices when they are old enough to. Not a matter of 'forcing' - at least it shouldn't be. Don't feel I was 'forced', even when told 'you will go to church with us', because honestly, it wasn't a horrible thing to have to do, and it was simply a matter of 'while under our roof, these are the house rules and how we will be going forward'. No, it was not some awful gulag of an experience, and there was no 'scarred for life' results.

Anyone brutalizing a child, mentally or emotionally abusing them on account? That's obviously wrong, and there's no way I would ever support it. Anyone going buck wild with 'honor killings' or the like is right the hell out and wrong, no question, end of. Yeah, am going to go that far whether here in the USA, or elsewhere. No call for that sort of bs.

Reasoning?

If whatever higher power you worship is as godlike as you claim, THEY DO NOT NEED YOU POLICING PEOPLE FOR THEM. So gtfo with the 'punishing the wicked' and 'imposing the rule of god' and such. They're sure to sort it out on the other side - without your help, no doubt. As they've been doing for however long life has been going on without your input. Thankyouverymuchhaveanicedaypleasedrivethrough. >_o

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Socio Polor
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Postby Socio Polor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Religious beliefs shouldn't be forced to be believed in. In other words a parent should never force their child or children to believe in something they don't believe in themselves or simply don't want to. We are all individuals with our own personal beliefs and opinions and taking that away from a person, especially your own child is as selfish as you can get. Now there's nothing wrong with a parent simply introducing their religion to their kid(s) and sharing with them their experiences in life, lessons and teaching them what's right and wrong. That is what a parent is supposed to do imo. But attempting to brainwash your own kid(s) by forcefully making them do something or believe in something they don't agree with or don't think is right is not good. I'm not religious, though if I ever had a child or children that do become religious in some point in their lives then I'll let them because I understand we are each our own people.
Last edited by Socio Polor on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:43 pm

I find the best solution to many things parenting is just do your best to love and support them and let them sort things out on their own
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Postby Mezonpotania » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:45 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I find the best solution to many things parenting is just do your best to love and support them and let them sort things out on their own

Probably best option
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:50 pm

No, absolutely not - what you described in the OP should be seen and treated as abuse. Want to teach your child about your religion - fine that is akin to proselytizing, but once you past the line into actively preventing them from following another religion (or not following any religion) that should be stopped by the state.
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm

A parent who forces their child to believe in something ridiculous is a bad parent.

My family has a history of forced belief, and it has been passed down the family line until it ended up at my desk.

The buck stops here, and it should stop with all parents.

As long as your kid doesn't become an Aztec warrior and start sacrificing other children to Quetzalcoatl or bombing abortion clinics or performing jihad, let them believe in whatever gods they want.
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Constantinopolis
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Postby Constantinopolis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm

Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Speak the Parents' Native Language?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Attend the Kindergarten or Primary School that the Parents want?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Wear the Clothes that the Parents Picked for Them?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Participate in Secular Cultural Practices that the Parents Participate in?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course they should. Of course parents should have the right to teach children to follow the same beliefs and values and cultural practices - including religious ones - that the parents follow.

If the children don't like it, they can decide for themselves when they grow up. Not before.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:53 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Speak the Parents' Native Language?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Attend the Kindergarten or Primary School that the Parents want?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Wear the Clothes that the Parents Picked for Them?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Participate in Secular Cultural Practices that the Parents Participate in?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course they should. Of course parents should have the right to teach children to follow the same beliefs and values and cultural practices - including religious ones - that the parents follow.

If the children don't like it, they can decide for themselves when they grow up. Not before.

Well I think by the time they hit teens all of those are things should be up to them
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Constantinopolis
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Postby Constantinopolis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:55 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Constantinopolis wrote:Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Speak the Parents' Native Language?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Attend the Kindergarten or Primary School that the Parents want?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Wear the Clothes that the Parents Picked for Them?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Participate in Secular Cultural Practices that the Parents Participate in?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course they should. Of course parents should have the right to teach children to follow the same beliefs and values and cultural practices - including religious ones - that the parents follow.

If the children don't like it, they can decide for themselves when they grow up. Not before.

Well I think by the time they hit teens all of those are things should be up to them

I agree, but I was talking about children, not teens. By the time they are 12 or so, they can start making these decisions for themselves. But to complain that parents "force things" on 6 year olds is ridiculous.
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Postby Saiwania » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:58 pm

I'm inclined to say yes, but I draw the line on beliefs such as Scientology and anything involving human sacrifice. Plenty of people who've put up with years of Sunday school or whatever, later moved out and can better appreciate the Atheist or alternative life that they really wanted as an adult. Many undesired life circumstances can be seen as like a test or prolonged trial to overcome.
Last edited by Saiwania on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Lancaster of Wessex » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:01 pm

You could have written: "Should parents have the right to force ________ belief?"

Parents are going to indoctrinate their children one-way-or-another, with whatever, be it religion, morals, ethics, etc. So long as Faith is taught in an open, respectful manner, and the child once they age are free to believe as they wish, I see no problem with it.
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Postby Socio Polor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:02 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I find the best solution to many things parenting is just do your best to love and support them and let them sort things out on their own

I agree with this too, do it's also good for a parent to assist and support their child anyway they can.
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Constantinopolis
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Postby Constantinopolis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Lancaster of Wessex wrote:You could have written: "Should parents have the right to force ________ belief?"

Parents are going to indoctrinate their children one-way-or-another, with whatever, be it religion, morals, ethics, etc. So long as Faith is taught in an open, respectful manner, and the child once they age are free to believe as they wish, I see no problem with it.

^ Precisely.

It is an inevitable feature of Homo sapiens that parents are going to try to raise their children to follow the same way of life as they do. There's nothing wrong with it.
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Socio Polor wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I find the best solution to many things parenting is just do your best to love and support them and let them sort things out on their own

I agree with this too, do it's also good for a parent to assist and support their child anyway they can.

And charge them only minimal rent. *nod*
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Postby Risottia » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:12 pm

Soyouso wrote:Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household?

No. It's a violation of the UN CRC.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:15 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Socio Polor wrote:I agree with this too, do it's also good for a parent to assist and support their child anyway they can.

And charge them only minimal rent. *nod*


Or, if no rent is provided, to at least charge psychological rent.
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Unknown Shores
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jul 30, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Probably not

Postby Unknown Shores » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm

I mean, it just doesn't seem right. They could if they wanted, but their kids should be able to choose what/who they would like to believe. :clap:

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Socio Polor
Diplomat
 
Posts: 732
Founded: Nov 28, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socio Polor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Socio Polor wrote:I agree with this too, do it's also good for a parent to assist and support their child anyway they can.

And charge them only minimal rent. *nod*

Uhhh, not too sure about that
"Man is nature. What we create is an extension of nature. God is nothing more than a symptom of an irrational fear of the unknown."
-Alvecia

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The Emerald Legion
Senator
 
Posts: 4859
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:24 pm

The Rich Port wrote:A parent who forces their child to believe in something ridiculous is a bad parent.

My family has a history of forced belief, and it has been passed down the family line until it ended up at my desk.

The buck stops here, and it should stop with all parents.

As long as your kid doesn't become an Aztec warrior and start sacrificing other children to Quetzalcoatl or bombing abortion clinics or performing jihad, let them believe in whatever gods they want.


Jeeze. Get my religion right. You don't sacrifice hearts to Quetzalcoatl, you sacrifice hearts to Huitzilopochtli. Quetzalcoatl was opposed to human sacrifice.
Last edited by The Emerald Legion on Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
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United Muscovite Nations
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5225
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:27 pm

It's impossible to truly dictate beliefs, but they should certainly have the right to teach their children their religious beliefs.
Eastern Orthodox Christian Traditionalist. Tsarist influences.
Seventh Ecumenical Council at Constantinople wrote:The greatest gifts God has given to mankind are the priesthood and the Imperial authority

Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
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