[DRAFT] Repeal "Right to Sexual Privacy"

[Essu Beti]

Iksana can be seen having a quiet discussion with his secretary. It is possible to overhear him saying, _{"Tell the old men I had to cut those lines or they'd never go for it. It's well within my perogative as Ambassador, yeah?"} before he goes up to the podium and, as an intern passes hardcopies around, recites the following:

REPEAL "RIGHT TO SEXUAL PRIVACY"

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #383
Proposed By: Essu Beti

General Assembly Resolution #383 shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

APPLAUDING Resolution #383 in its upholding of privacy rights, but

APPALLED that, as per section 6a, nations are forced to legalize incest if it is unable to result in procreation.

FINDING IT RIDICULOUS that this means that a previously potentially illegal relationship, such as one between a brother and sister, could suddenly be rendered legal because the male half was gelded in a tragic accident.

SUPPORTING a new proposal that gives nations the option to forbid incest whether or not it could result in procreation.

HEREBY REPEALS General Assembly Resolution #383: Right to Sexual Privacy

REPEAL "RIGHT TO SEXUAL PRIVACY"

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #383
Proposed By: Essu Beti

General Assembly Resolution #383 shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

APPLAUDING Resolution #383 in its upholding of privacy rights, but

APPALLED that, as per section 6a, nations are forced to legalized incest if it is unable to result in procreation.

FINDING IT RIDICULOUS that this means that a previously potentially illegal relationship, such as one between a brother and sister, could suddenly be rendered legal because the male half was gelded in a tragic accident.

SUPPORTING a new proposal that gives nations the option to forbid incest whether or not it could result in procreation.

Hereby repeals General Assembly Resolution #383: Right to Sexual Privacy

((OOC: Link to the original: viewtopic.php?p=29812469#p29812469 ))

[States of Glory WA Office]

Fairburn: Full support.

[Essu Beti]

"Excellent! _{See, Marsanis, I told you we didn't need that rambling whine about morality in there.} I hope that means you'll defend me when I inevitably piss someone off and they try to throw me out the window."

Iksana glances down at the hardcopy draft in his hands. "Well. Maybe after that typo is fixed. Shit."

[Nohen]

It's a shame there is no way to revise amendments as Right to Sexual Privacy would be pretty good if not for the incest loophole.

[States of Glory WA Office]

It's a shame there is no way to revise amendments as Right to Sexual Privacy would be pretty good if not for the incest loophole.

Neville: It's not a loophole. It is 100% intentional.

[Robosia]

Link to the original?

[Essu Beti]

((OOC: Oops sorry, here it is: viewtopic.php?p=29812469#p29812469

Actually, let me edit it into the OP, too))

[Auralia]

A question for the proposal author: why should consensual incest with no possibility of procreation be prohibited? The repeal offers no justification.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

[United Empire of Arevaan]

His Imperial Majesty the Emperor fully supports this proposal and the United Empire of Arevaan will vote in favor of it, when it hits the floor of the General Assembly.

Signed,
Faranor Delcre
UEA Ambassador to the World Assembly
UEA Ministry of Foreign Affairs
His Imperial Majesty's Government
By the Right of
His Imperial Majesty,
James I, Emperor of the
United Empire of Arevaan

[Attempted Socialism]

"We see no reason to make love between consenting adults illegal. As such, there are no laws regarding consanguinity in the Solidarity Movement. Our regular laws against coercion, requiring informed consent and prohibiting lasting harm are plenty regulation for us. Evolution, especially reverse sexual imprinting, makes it mostly a debate about the principle, but like so many other sexual attractions once considered taboo, we rejected ancient moralistic gut feelings, and established clear rules of informed consent instead. Should this repeal go through, we will seek to replace it with a resolution that does not allow for national laws on consanguinity."

[Bananaistan]

It's a shame there is no way to revise amendments as Right to Sexual Privacy would be pretty good if not for the incest loophole.

Neville: It's not a loophole. It is 100% intentional.

"Neville is quite correct.

A question for the proposal author: why should consensual incest with no possibility of procreation be prohibited? The repeal offers no justification.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

"An answer to this question would be nice. What justification do you have for wanting to ban it beyond "it's icky"?

"We see no reason to make love between consenting adults illegal. As such, there are no laws regarding consanguinity in the Solidarity Movement. Our regular laws against coercion, requiring informed consent and prohibiting lasting harm are plenty regulation for us. Evolution, especially reverse sexual imprinting, makes it mostly a debate about the principle, but like so many other sexual attractions once considered taboo, we rejected ancient moralistic gut feelings, and established clear rules of informed consent instead. Should this repeal go through, we will seek to replace it with a resolution that does not allow for national laws on consanguinity."

"We previously had a resolution like this. It was repealed on the basis that society had an interest in prohibiting inbreeding due to the potential for health issues to arise and the costs to member state's health services resulting."

[Imperium Anglorum]

A note on consistency – if you're going for capitalisation of the first few words (which, I think, for once, works here in 'FINDING IT RIDICULOUS', since it serves the function here of emphasis beyond simply being the first word), you will have to also capitalise the last sentence's start to 'HEREBY REPEALS'.

Otherwise, I don't really have any major objections.

[Albrenia]

"Albrenia is not convinced of the need for this repeal. Why must we repeal and then risk the replacement not passing, for such a rare issue which is only objectionable due to the... for a lack of a better word... squick factor?"

The young man in a blue jumpsuit goes back to surfing a website about Tropes on his handheld device.

[Essu Beti]

Iksana starts making notes on a copy of the proposal. "We'll tighten up that formatting, then. Now, the author of the proposal is not me, but rather an unruly mob of politicians back home, though I do have some minor editing power which I have already taken advantage of. Specifically, I have five lines that did not make the cut because I found them too whiny and because one of them actually quoted verbatim a line from the Chronicles of Atar, a holy book with the unique distinction of being one that absolutely no other World Assembly member pays attention to or most likely, even knew existed before I brought it up just now."

"So as for the justifications already provided to me, which I had declined to leave in for you lot, we have one slippery slope argument, two appeals to morality -one of which is also an appeal to "keep the family pure and uncorrupted," whatever that means-, one NatSov argument, and a religious justification irrelevant to literally everyone who isn't from Essu Beti."

Marsanis leans over and whispers something in his ear. Iksana snorts. "I don't care if I'm being disrespectful. The whole reason they gave me this position is because I'm disrespectful. But yeah, sure. My own personal justification goes back to that FINDING IT RIDICULOUS line _{which I did not add, just, you know, tightened it up a bit.} Laws and restrictions should be innate to the act instead of subject to the whims of fate and happenstance. If you have two otherwise identical relationships, it just seems silly that one should be given different status because one of the people was in an accident at work or was stupid enough to drop his trousers and take a piss in crocodile territory."

[Bananaistan]

"Let's run with this idea that laws should be innate to the act (although I fail to see the great distinction between this and the "whims ..."). The outcome which the state has a legitimate interest in preventing is children conceived in incestuous unions. There is only one act which can lead to this outcome. If one individual in a union is incapable of conceiving, then it is utterly impossible for the undesired outcome to happen. There is no whim of fate or happenstance here.

"On the other hand, the premise is wrong anyway. "Whims of fate and happenstance" is merely another way of saying the "personal circumstances of the individuals involved." I assume that you also find it ridiculous that unemployed people receive social assistance because of the "whims of fate and happenstance" that lead to them losing their job? And find laws of tort ridiculous? After all an award for negligence and failing a duty of care only arise after the "whims of fate and happenstance" lead to some injury to the plaintiff."

[Essu Beti]

Iksana listens, nods, and then opens his mouth. "What I said was poorly stated, so allow me to clarify. When I'm talking about restrictions being based on the act instead of whims of fate and happenstance, I'm talking about illegal actions. Things people do, like stealing or vandalizing or whatnot. I have nothing against social assistance for those in need- it would be pretty fuckin' well hypocritical of me otherwise, considering my nation's status as a scared and scarred mob of refugees desperately grabbing for any branch that could help pull us out of the quicksand. We don't let someone get away with putting sugar in someone else's gas tank just because they broke their foot yesterday, or because that someone else refused hospitality to them."

Marsanis clears their throat. "Actually, Ambassador, in the recent case of-"

"That was a travesty of justice and you know it."

"You are supposed to be representing the interests of Essu Beti, which means representing the laws and traditions of Essu Beti. Even the parts you don't like."

[Bananaistan]

"Even so, your analogy is false. Yer man that had his wang bitten off after waving it in front of the crocodile is no longer capable of committing the illegal act. Yet you want to criminalise him anyway. How is this fair? It seems to me that you're heading off down a track towards thoughtcrime."

[Essu Beti]

Iksana looks honestly perplexed by the ambassador's argument. "How would he get his wang bitten off? Even if he did have it unsheathed for whatever reason the thing's protected by his tail and his- oh wait, you're human. Of course you'd be thinking of human anatomy. No no, on elves the bits that are in the main line of fire when accidents or dumbassery occur are the rather more dangly ones. Back to front, if you understand me. This hypothetical man would by all means still be capable of comitting the act in question. Assuming he got prompt medical attention and didn't bleed out."

[Bananaistan]

"If his equipment has been bitten off, how would he be still capable?

"The point is that things that were once illegal become legal due to changes in personal circumstances all the time. I don't find it ridiculous that just because a person passes the age of 16 they can suddenly vote despite it having been illegal for them to do so the day before they turned 16. Do you?"

[Essu Beti]

"I literally just said this, Ambassador. The equipment in question is the dangly ballsack bits. You know, the ones that are involved when one talks about someone being gelded in a tragic accident, as in the proposal. Not the equipment that is actually involved in sexual acts."

"Also we don't have specific voting ages in Essu Beti. It's based on emotional and intellectual maturity, not on an arbitrary number, and I do in fact find it very strange that an arbitrary number means so much to so many nations."

[Bananaistan]

"I literally just said this, Ambassador. The equipment in question is the dangly ballsack bits. You know, the ones that are involved when one talks about someone being gelded in a tragic accident, as in the proposal. Not the equipment that is actually involved in sexual acts."

"What? Either he is still capable, in which case, your government can still ban him from having relations with his relations, or he's not. Which is it? Make uo your damn mind!

"Also we don't have specific voting ages in Essu Beti. It's based on emotional and intellectual maturity, not on an arbitrary number, and I do in fact find it very strange that an arbitrary number means so much to so many nations."

"So you do have laws that that change the legality of the act, in this case voting, based on the whims of fate and happenstance, IE when an individual reaches this rather vague threshold of emotional and intellectual maturity. So one day yer man can't vote because he's not emotional and/or intellectual mature, but the next day he can. Why is this not also ridiculous?"

[Essu Beti]

((OOC: If this is sliding past the PG-13 rules, I'll edit it. I admit I'm unsure on where exactly the line is))

"He would be capable of the act, not of reproduction. After all, the "FINDING IT RIDICULOUS" clause is drawing a comparison between two hypothetical otherwise idential couples, one of which has the potential for procreation and one of which does not, the latter being the one we're arguing about a hypothetical crocodile attack on. Seriously, it's as if you have no reading comprehension at all. Or do you have the strange belief that people have sex using their balls instead of their fork?"

"How the fuck is being mentally capable of weighing the sides in a political election a whim of fate and circumstance?"

[Sanctaria]

The Divine Republic is, in general, supportive of a blanket ban on incest, regardless of whether or not conception of offspring is a possibility. I have been directed by my government to endorse a repeal of The Right to Sexual Privacy and to support a replacement that achieves the aforementioned desired aim.

[Bananaistan]

((OOC: If this is sliding past the PG-13 rules, I'll edit it. I admit I'm unsure on where exactly the line is))

"He would be capable of the act, not of reproduction. After all, the "FINDING IT RIDICULOUS" clause is drawing a comparison between two hypothetical otherwise idential couples, one of which has the potential for procreation and one of which does not, the latter being the one we're arguing about a hypothetical crocodile attack on. Seriously, it's as if you have no reading comprehension at all. Or do you have the strange belief that people have sex using their balls instead of their fork?"

"How the fuck is being mentally capable of weighing the sides in a political election a whim of fate and circumstance?"

"Well I did refer to his wang!

"Ofc it is a whim of fate and circumstance! No two individuals mature at exactly the same rate."

[Essu Beti]

"Well I did refer to his wang!

"Ofc it is a whim of fate and circumstance! No two individuals mature at exactly the same rate."

"You did. However, I corrected you on that. And I continued to correct you when you bullheadedly tried to insist otherwise despite it being my hypothetical scenario, though I'm sure it was pure stubbornness on your part instead of you deliberately trying to force the most ridiculous scenario possible in order to weaken my argument." Iksana? Sarcastic? Never. "I mean, for a croc to even reach his wang it would practically have to bite his whole lower body off, since they're kept sheathed internally for the most part. It should have been really fucking obvious after two explanations what I was actually referring to."

"Of fuckin' course they don't! That's exactly why we don't use arbitrary numbers like you do! The gradual maturation process that everyone goes through can hardly be called a whim of fate and circumstance, in any case."

The Divine Republic is, in general, supportive of a blanket ban on incest, regardless of whether or not conception of offspring is a possibility. I have been directed by my government to endorse a repeal of The Right to Sexual Privacy and to support a replacement that achieves the aforementioned desired aim.

"Thank you for your support, and you're also welcome to join in the debate with those who disagree. Or at least get between me and them when they inevitably try to defenestrate me. I've been told I tend to make people want to do that. Usually by my secretary."