Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[Phoenicaea]

I agree with Czhechoslovakia statement, you may have difference in mind about the rest,
still a common lesson may be to avoid Munich '38 conference again.
An historical view nowadays, it says Chamberlain and Daladier have not made so disgracefull behaviour,
since you shall consider impreparation for war they shared and about they were conscious, and it was not thier fault while they acted to counter it.

I m also quite sure for this: Chamberlain and Daladier had not this precedent at their time, wihle our chiefs of state (and their bureaucracies) have lots of evidence based examples;
nowadays they would however do lot worse than Monaco '38.

See about Putin, Assad and all that waste. Chamberlain and Daladier were not able to make it in worst case scenario, and quite managed it, our regents are ashaming even in easy case scenario. That it is.

[Aellex]

Yes, we were, as we were always left-wing nationalists and republicans, hating inbred Habsburgs. Only few of us thought that constitutional monarchy is also a valid idea, but Central Powers and Russian Civil War proved it was dumb idea

Rightism =/= Monarchism
Usually, Nationalism/Imperialism = Rightism and again your treatment of Slovaks (and even Germans tho I honestly don't give the slightest shit about them) was clearly motivated by the first in a desire of the second.

Sadly, we thought French Republic is a bright example of liberty and freedom, to follow and ally, thinking, that France will guide and if necessary, protect allied democratic state in Central Europe against filthy bosches

Oh, we did. We were ready to intervene since after the Anschluss. You can blame the Brits for their own behaviour and constant opposition to that.

If French had balls in the Interbellum: 1. Protected pupp...ahem, 'sister' Rhenish Republic, 2. In literally every case when Versailles treaty was broken, march into Germany and absolutely ignore every British or American protest

1. was the plan. We wanted an independent Rhineland-Palatinate to act as a buffer zone and a restored Bavaria. Again, blame the Brits and Americans for stopping that.
2. is nice and all but unlike you we actually genuinely fought in ww1 and suffered correspondent casualties. By the time ww1 came around, we had still barely recovered both mentally (losing 1/4 of your 18-27 males tends to be kinda traumatic, usually) and physically (our population had barely went back at what it was before the war).
Arguing that we should have thrown away our allies and went alone against a country that had double our population and about as much industrial power just so that some Eastern European countries "didn't feel abandoned", is just retarded.
Again, if you want to blame someone for abandoning you, blame the Brits. They were the ones that opposed categorically helping you when we did our best to convince them. Blaming us for not abandoning everything just for you is quite stupid and unfair, however.

[Socialist Czechia]

2. is nice and all but unlike you we actually genuinely fought in ww1 and suffered correspondent casualties.

That was extremely low. In almost every village is still cross or statue with name and faces of dead soldiers from the Great War. Austria-Hungary had massive casualties in the war, due to incompetent command and amateurish Austrian commanders and Habsburgs, either inbred or in moronic self-denial about loyalty of their subjects.

At least majority of French population didn't suffered famine, like citizens of Central Powers, which especially sucked for Czech citizens, while over 100 000 Czechs and Slovaks fought in the Entente's name in 1918, Legions had height and government-in-exile was approved.
Since 1915, there was malnutrition, since 1916, people died from hunger and diseases from it only more and more.

But in case of A-H, it could be better, if Hungarians shared their stockpiles of food: they refused to send even few wagons to help Austrian or Czech workers, making rifles and cannons in the Empire's name. And the 'Emperor' did nothing. Both of them.

[Baltenstein]

2. is nice and all but unlike you we actually genuinely fought in ww1 and suffered correspondent casualties.

That was extremely low. In almost every village is still cross or statue with name and faces of dead soldiers from the Great War. Austria-Hungary had massive casualties in the war, due to incompetent command and amateurish Austrian commanders and Habsburgs, either inbred or in moronic self-denial about loyalty of their subjects.

At least majority of French population didn't suffered famine, like citizens of Central Powers, which especially sucked for Czech citizens, while over 100 000 Czechs and Slovaks fought in the Entente's name in 1918, Legions had height and government-in-exile was approved.
Since 1915, there was malnutrition, since 1916, people died from hunger and diseases from it only more and more.

But in case of A-H, it could be better, if Hungarians shared their stockpiles of food: they refused to send even few wagons to help Austrian or Czech workers, making rifles and cannons in the Empire's name. And the 'Emperor' did nothing. Both of them.

Obviously, a French chauvinist would not have heard about the adventures of the brave Soldier Svejk.

My farovite story about Czech soldiers in WW1 is the one where a bataillon of them gets stranded in the middle of Russia during the Soviet Revolution and has to fight its way through the Siberian contryside all the way to Vladivostok to get home. Oh, and they were also in possession of the Tsar's gold during their endeavor.
I think it would make for a great adventure movie/novel.

[Republica Federal de Catalunya]

Ok December 21st happend, when's the Revolution?

You missed it, it wasn't televised.

I think you can see how. Those who want independence no longer see themselves as Spanish, but instead as Catalonian. The recent elections weren't boycotted and pro-independence parties won a majority.

Point of order, the pro-independentists did win a majority of seats, but only gained 47.5% of the popular vote. Not exactly a popular majority. By your logic, 52.5% of Catalans who voted also see themselves as Spanish.

This can all be solved by a referendum with a quota of 50% +1 of all eligible voters, but Madrid's being kinda defensive about that.

Indeed only 43% of Catalans voted spanish nacionalist parties. from the rest 47.5 voted catalan independentist parties. the rest voted others.
I can say that the elections were biased in favour of spanish nationalist parties.

[Socialist Czechia]

Reuters: "Fugitive former leader cannot rule Catalonia from abroad says Madrid"

Rajoy still refuses to accept reality.



I say separatists could perhaps choose much different and more aggressive strategy to do troubles in entire Spain: no longer push for independence so much, but loudly propose to abolish monarchy, to destroy Francoist monuments and to rewrite history books for kids - where francoists are only depicted as murderers.

Republic of Catalonia is not tolerated, then perhaps they should start to think on something bigger.

[Hallistrom]

The only thing on this website more tired than your ITG schtick is the moderator that role-plays as a boat

It's not an internet tough guy schtick, it's what I actually 100% believe in. If we talking about this in real life I'd tell you the exact same thing. That Catalonia deserves to be crushed with military force

Oh, so you're a Nazi.

[USS Monitor]

Do you really need to dig up a thread that's been dead for over a month just so you could call someone a Nazi?