White Privilege

[Blasted Craigs]

Copy of a post I made, and to avoid derailing the post, decided to open a new thread to discuss.
Original post.
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You know, I really get tired of the "white privilege" argument. It's essentially boils down to...
Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP! You don't know how good you got it, so your opinion is ignored unless you agree with all the poor, unfortunate souls that have it worse than you! Admit you are evil, otherwise we cannot talk.

Hell, do not take this as a personal attack, but to that logic I say...
Screw that. My opinion and logic is just as valid and worth as much as anyone else, irregardless of my skin tone.
And also, I have yet to experience the bliss of "White Privilege". Please, tell me how to apply for this grand status.
Money and opportunity given to me for being white? Nope, unemployed disabled vet, can't seem to get a job to save my life, live near destitute on my disability.
Free from discrimination? Nope, was often "Prejudiced" against when I was a correctional officer by my Captain before being fired for getting hurt, and hey, it was ok since he was black and I was white. (Including calling me cracker, accusing me of being racist even though I was accepted as non racist by my peers, it was a minority heavy department)
Not being watched while shopping? Nope, due to my balding head, and shaving it, I am often watched by store staff, since I look like a skinhead. Although slightly offensive, I can live with it.
Feeling accepted because of my race? Nope, often lived in minority heavy locations (Have always been poor), was like a single grain of rice in an otherwise colorful bowl, and often abused by , well, not racist (since one cannot be racist to a white person per Academia) but "prejudicist" teachers and administrative staff, including beatings when my mother had sent in a no paddling note beforehand.
So please, please tell me where the local "white Privilege" office is so I can apply for my whitey card, and cash in on these benefits.

Just because middle class and above want to feel less guilty for their economic privilege by blaming it on race, and shame their fellow white Americans for their made up white privilege to feel better about the benefits they have from being born wealthier, does not shame me. And if you let it shame you, and you feel shame for the color of your skin, something you have absolutely No freaking control over!
Well, your existence must be hell I guess. No wonder white apologists want all whites to die, if they live with shame and guilt like that due to something they cannot change.
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Well, my point stands. The claim of "White privilege" in an discussion, IMHO, is a cop out. It's an attempt to shut the other person up, to shame them into silence. I have had a difficult life, and have never experienced any white privilege. If anything, my life would have been easier if I was a minority. (More chances at advancement, better opportunities for help, support of those over me in an authoritarian sense, not having to prove I am not racist, having an organization to go to when I was discriminated against, etc)
And before people bring up the police, white people are often killed by police, it's just not reported near as much as it is not as divisive. Kelly Thomas for example, surrendered to police, never resisted, and was beaten savagely by officers crying for help from his dad until he died, over 9 minutes of pure unadulterated savage beating. Oh, and the officers were found not guilty of any wrongdoing, BTW.
An article that states more whites are killed by police than blacks. Again, not based on race, but economic class is the deciding factor of how likely one will survive an encounter with police.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/
Well, nationstates?
1-Is white privilege a cop out argument, real or not?
2-Are people confusing economic privilege/advantage with racial privilege/advantage?
3-If white privilege is, in your opinion real, what exactly is it? As in, what are some examples?

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My answers
1-It's a total cop out, and not completely true.
2-Totally, the entire point of my post.
3-It's not actually real. There is benefits to all races, and penalties. Depends on location and circumstance.

[The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia]

There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society

[Blasted Craigs]

There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society

My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Aaand here we go.

*ahem*

What we need to do is stop being a nation of assholes so caught up in party politics and selfish nonsense that we can't grasp that our nation has some serious problems that we ALL need to help address. We need to recognize that just because we don't see a problem in our everyday lives that this doesn't mean said problem does not exist. We need to recognize that not all of any one group can be painted with the same broad brush. We need to recognize that the sins of the past ought to be bloody well left there, and we need to be better people having learned from them, going forward - across the board. What we 'owe' one another is to respect one another, regardless of who we are, or our color, or status, or any of the rest, and start looking out for one another rather than looking for more ways to tear one another down or worse, 'putting/keeping people in their place'. We need to actually SOLVE the problems at hand rather than just give them air time and lip service. And if our leadership refuses to act, and do so in a timely manner, we need to remove them from office, and vote in people who will do the job, and do it right - regardless of ridiculous party lines and all the rest.

We need to clean up our police forces and judicial system. There is too much corruption, too much privatization, too much special interests interfering with actual justice being done, and far too many unjust laws on the books - or barring that, unjust execution of said laws. There is too much a lean towards the poor, the underprivileged, of minorities getting taken advantage of, under-represented, etc. And while yes, the flat-out numbers are clear in that more blacks are killed by other blacks in gun violence, this does NOT remove the very real problem of them being more likely to be profiled, or shot when it comes to police interaction. People are scared for a reason. We ought to change that. Police are supposed to be there to help the citizens - lets make that the norm rather than so many fearing them, and good cops paying the price for the bad reputation they've gotten on account of the unjust actions of others.

We need to clean up our entire government and how it works. This gerrymandering bs has got to go. The special interest donations etc, out. Just posted a story on FB about how Florida removed thousands of very ill children from a good insurance network to apparently 'pay back' GOP donations from other insurance agencies, who donated inordinately huge amounts compared to other states, and other parties. Unacceptable. We need to put limits on congressional terms. We need to enable the people to cast a vote of 'no confidence' or the like should we screw up and saddle ourselves with a representative, from the local gov on up to the top office in the land, who no longer represents us once the attain office. We need to be able to hold people in office accountable for their actions to the citizens they represent. And we need to cut out this bullshit two-party fiasco, as they're just two sides to the same dirty, self-interested coin.

We need to be better to one another. We need to educate one another on our differences, and be accepting that whether or not we happen to like one another, for whatever reason, that we have GOT to figure out how to co-exist in relative civility. We need to get rid of all the hate, all the violence. We need to learn that differences do not mean we're not all human. And we probably ought to do away with a great many specialized categories in our twisted law system by acknowledging that we are all human, and all worthy of equal treatment under law, regardless of those differences. Civility ought not to be too much to ask for in a supposedly civilized society.

Does any of this mean we have privileged people? Probably. Should that mean we ought to all stand and point and make that the focus of our anger? Probably not, imo. Far better to acknowledge that some of us are better off than others - for whatever reason. And that our differences have historically, and currently, meant differences in treatment, in access to services, in a number of things that ought to be changed. And that we would be far better off working together to sort it out rather than remain broken into warring camps wasting energy arguing whether or not any of the above is true, and simply resting on our various feelings of validation when our accusations seem to hold out. There's no solutions in that, only blame. And nothing is going to change if all we're accomplishing is keeping people angry at one another over it all, rather than actually getting something done about it. (And no, for those wondering, I am not blaming any one group for any of this. There's problems all around, to one degree or other.)

[Senegalboy]

There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society

My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".

i half agree you can't get a job because of your skin colour you can't pass exams with white skin like it will give him powers but sometimes with whites as the demographic majority they could be more biased towards other whites and also whites do not get the level of racism compared with ethnic minorities so they kind of do have a slight advantage but not to the scale as some people say

[Blasted Craigs]

Aaand here we go.

*ahem*

What we need to do is stop being a nation of assholes so caught up in party politics and selfish nonsense that we can't grasp that our nation has some serious problems that we ALL need to help address. We need to recognize that just because we don't see a problem in our everyday lives that this doesn't mean said problem does not exist. We need to recognize that not all of any one group can be painted with the same broad brush. We need to recognize that the sins of the past ought to be bloody well left there, and we need to be better people having learned from them, going forward - across the board. What we 'owe' one another is to respect one another, regardless of who we are, or our color, or status, or any of the rest, and start looking out for one another rather than looking for more ways to tear one another down or worse, 'putting/keeping people in their place'. We need to actually SOLVE the problems at hand rather than just give them air time and lip service. And if our leadership refuses to act, and do so in a timely manner, we need to remove them from office, and vote in people who will do the job, and do it right - regardless of ridiculous party lines and all the rest.

We need to clean up our police forces and judicial system. There is too much corruption, too much privatization, too much special interests interfering with actual justice being done, and far too many unjust laws on the books - or barring that, unjust execution of said laws. There is too much a lean towards the poor, the underprivileged, of minorities getting taken advantage of, under-represented, etc. And while yes, the flat-out numbers are clear in that more blacks are killed by other blacks in gun violence, this does NOT remove the very real problem of them being more likely to be profiled, or shot when it comes to police interaction. People are scared for a reason. We ought to change that. Police are supposed to be there to help the citizens - lets make that the norm rather than so many fearing them, and good cops paying the price for the bad reputation they've gotten on account of the unjust actions of others.

We need to clean up our entire government and how it works. This gerrymandering bs has got to go. The special interest donations etc, out. Just posted a story on FB about how Florida removed thousands of very ill children from a good insurance network to apparently 'pay back' GOP donations from other insurance agencies, who donated inordinately huge amounts compared to other states, and other parties. Unacceptable. We need to put limits on congressional terms. We need to enable the people to cast a vote of 'no confidence' or the like should we screw up and saddle ourselves with a representative, from the local gov on up to the top office in the land, who no longer represents us once the attain office. We need to be able to hold people in office accountable for their actions to the citizens they represent. And we need to cut out this bullshit two-party fiasco, as they're just two sides to the same dirty, self-interested coin.

We need to be better to one another. We need to educate one another on our differences, and be accepting that whether or not we happen to like one another, for whatever reason, that we have GOT to figure out how to co-exist in relative civility. We need to get rid of all the hate, all the violence. We need to learn that differences do not mean we're not all human. And we probably ought to do away with a great many specialized categories in our twisted law system by acknowledging that we are all human, and all worthy of equal treatment under law, regardless of those differences. Civility ought not to be too much to ask for in a supposedly civilized society.

Does any of this mean we have privileged people? Probably. Should that mean we ought to all stand and point and make that the focus of our anger? Probably not, imo. Far better to acknowledge that some of us are better off than others - for whatever reason. And that our differences have historically, and currently, meant differences in treatment, in access to services, in a number of things that ought to be changed. And that we would be far better off working together to sort it out rather than remain broken into warring camps wasting energy arguing whether or not any of the above is true, and simply resting on our various feelings of validation when our accusations seem to hold out. There's no solutions in that, only blame. And nothing is going to change if all we're accomplishing is keeping people angry at one another over it all, rather than actually getting something done about it. (And no, for those wondering, I am not blaming any one group for any of this. There's problems all around, to one degree or other.)

Well...I actually agree with you. My point is that the, IMHO, synthetic social construct of "white privilege" was created to do exactly what you are talking about, divide us. It is why blacks killed unlawfully by police are all over the news, and one has to search for news about whites killed in similar manner from local sources. The News is in the business of selling news, and is complicit in dividing us as a Nation.

Saying both sides were blameworthy in Charlottesville? They were. Only murder was the person that ran over the crowd, but both sides were looking for a fight. And representing these two groups as "two sides of America" as left versus right, is disingenuous. These are fringe elements, not representative of the left or right. But again, the mainstream news only cares about ratings, and seeks to divide us. Just like how the MSM has propped up, along with Academia, this synthetic social construct known as white privilege. It's all an attempt to divide us, and shut up the voices of the centrists, the majority of Americans.

[Valrifell]

There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society

My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".

"White Privilege" blames literally nobody for its existence, it just points out that there are instances where being white is advantageous in societal situations.

This is like saying the idea of socioeconomic inequality is attacking the rich. No, it's just a thing that happens.

[Free Tristania]

It's the Left's anti-white rhetoric that may very well end up driving away the last remaining members of the white working class and only leave them with some minorities and some privileged rebellious self-hating white kids and I hope it will happen fast as it may very well prevent catastrophe.. As for how they betrayed their voting base, As for white privilege: the ones shouting it the loudest are the undeserving who got into university the inner circle on the backs of their rich daddy and his connections or by affirmative action.

The entire notion is racist and hypocritical and not too different from the antisemitic nonsense the Nazi's used to put out.

[Ifreann]

Copy of a post I made, and to avoid derailing the post, decided to open a new thread to discuss.
Original post.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
You know, I really get tired of the "white privilege" argument. It's essentially boils down to...
Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP! You don't know how good you got it, so your opinion is ignored unless you agree with all the poor, unfortunate souls that have it worse than you! Admit you are evil, otherwise we cannot talk.

Nah, not really.

[Blasted Craigs]

My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".

i half agree you can't get a job because of your skin colour you can't pass exams with white skin like it will give him powers but sometimes with whites as the demographic majority they could be more biased towards other whites and also whites do not get the level of racism compared with ethnic minorities so they kind of do have a slight advantage but not to the scale as some people say

Actually, my overall point is this was created as a term to excuse the rich elites to donate as little as possible and still be considered good for society. As long as they help non whites, they are a boon to society and should be glorified. Not held in disdain as having the system rigged in their favor. If it seems that way, it's due to white privilege, not economics. And they'll apologize, put a few minorities in leadership positions, and the system will stay rigged, in favor of the rich. Don't believe me? Look up protected or preferred stock. It's stock that always pays out even when a profit is not made, and if a company goes under, well, the assets goes like this
1-bonds and protected/preferred stock holders first
2-then creditors
3-then regular stockholders
4-then, lastly, obligations (pensions, 401ks, etc)
The buyers of preferred stock are the investor class, the rich. Ask a company to buy preferred stock, and you are likely to be laughed at. This, by law, protects the wealthy in case of market failures. Yes, there is economic privilege.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Well...I actually agree with you. My point is that the, IMHO, synthetic social construct of "white privilege" was created to do exactly what you are talking about, divide us. It is why blacks killed unlawfully by police are all over the news, and one has to search for news about whites killed in similar manner from local sources. The News is in the business of selling news, and is complicit in dividing us as a Nation.

Saying both sides were blameworthy in Charlottesville? They were. Only murder was the person that ran over the crowd, but both sides were looking for a fight. And representing these two groups as "two sides of America" as left versus right, is disingenuous. These are fringe elements, not representative of the left or right. But again, the mainstream news only cares about ratings, and seeks to divide us. Just like how the MSM has propped up, along with Academia, this synthetic social construct known as white privilege. It's all an attempt to divide us, and shut up the voices of the centrists, the majority of Americans.

Ok, back up just a wee bit there. Here's how I've explained the Charlottesville situation and claims of 'both the same blame' bit:

One side, as I see it, has a whole bunch of angry, racist, nasty bastards on it going hell bent for leather looking for a race war they think they'll win, and they've attached themselves to causes like the statues and such, and to groups looking without the outright hate, to preserve them for various reasons. Unfortunately, this makes the small handful of non-haters look just as bad as the haters, as they've all ended up standing together. What that small handful needs to do is firmly, and adamantly let everyone know they do not stand with the hate, and do not condone any of their actions.

On the other side, we have a whole bunch of angry well-meaning people standing up against all that hate, not looking for trouble, but not wanting to put up with the racist bullshit either. And they've had a small handful of people who've attached themselves to their cause who happen to have violence in mind, and have no problem taking it to the klan and the nazis, because that's their whole thing. Does that mean the entirety of the antifa folks are awful? No, but there have been enough that it has caused some problems, and allowed the alt-right apologists and such to point and claim they're all 'just as bad' or 'share the blame' due to the actions of the few. We need the folks who are not for that sort of thing to stand up and firmly, adamantly know that they do not stand with that sort of hate either, and do not condone any of their actions. Caveat: Defending others from violence, defending oneself from violence, even if violence then happens is NOT the same as inciting and actively engaging in it, and should NOT be viewed as 'to blame' for said violence happening. That lays firmly at the feet of whoever hauls in throwing punches or whatever gets the ball rolling.

There are more than just one effort out there at division - there's many. Whether its color, or status, or gender, or physicality, or politics, or income, you've got folks out there spinning up all manner of us vs them scenarios, many of them misguided, full of misinformation, and being actively sucked up by the public like a whole lot of thirsty sponges. And the media, our government, special interest groups etc are all to blame. Look at BLM - there's good folks there too, but they've been overshadowed by the ones screaming about 'killing all the whites' and such. Look at Islam ffs - same thing. Look at white folks - you think I support those screaming for blood at those rallies just because I'm fair skinned and freckled? Hell no. There's always someone out there dead-set on being an asshole because they want to be king of the hill, at whatever cost - especially if they can point to a group of people and place all the blame for everything they see wrong in their lives at that group's feet.

Somewhere, sometime, all that shit has got to stop. And you pointing the finger as well and saying 'nu-uh' isn't really helping in that direction, boyo. We're all in this together, like it or not. May be time to stop the pointing and grousing, and start actually doing something about it all, neh? Yeah, things are shitty. Lets change that.

[Aellex]

Tis a rather shit concept of pseudo "original guilt" made up by liberals to try and divert attention away from class issues and back to race ones so to further divide the populace.
It's bad and people who buy into it should feel bad.

[Valrifell]

Tis a rather shit concept of pseudo "original guilt" made up by liberals to try and divert attention away from class issues and back to race ones so to further divide the populace.
It's bad and people who buy into it should feel bad.

Again, the idea itself has no such concept of original guilt. That was retroactively added in by political interest groups motivated by their insecurities.

[Union of Despotistan]

In Canada, white privilege does not exist.

It's the complete opposite. Affirmative Action is everywhere, minorities pass 1st, migrants gets better resources than poor locals and all kind of minority/pressure groups gets preferential treatments that the "white masses".
The Liberal Party in Federal and Provincial levels makes sure of that.

[New haven america]

If it was real I'd kinda like some right now, being treated as trash is not all it's cracked up to be.

Kidding aside, everyone in the US has major problems, class, race, gender, the government itself, etc... and the only way we can fix those is if we actually calm down and work together. Or am I asking for the impossible here?

[USS Monitor]

Feeling accepted because of my race? Nope, often lived in minority heavy locations (Have always been poor), was like a single grain of rice in an otherwise colorful bowl, and often abused by , well, not racist (since one cannot be racist to a white person per Academia) but "prejudicist" teachers and administrative staff, including beatings when my mother had sent in a no paddling note beforehand.

The academics who spout that "only white people can be racist" crap are revisionists who should be dismissed as quacks. It's the equivalent of being a phrenology professor or a psychologist specializing in drapetomania. Just has no connection to the real world.

A "no paddling note" should not be a thing. School staff should not be beating students under any circumstance, with or without a note. But that's a separate issue from the race thing.

Anyway, about "white privilege"... It's a generalization that might be useful in some contexts when talking about groups and overarching trends, but it does not work well when applied to individuals.

It's like this: If I say, "Vermonters eat a lot of ice cream," and I cite some statistics about per capita ice cream consumption or the number of ice cream shops per square mile, that makes sense. Vermonters do eat a lot of ice cream.

But if someone tells me, "I'm from Vermont and I don't eat ice cream because I'm lactose intolerant," it doesn't make sense for me to get in his face and tell him he's wrong. It doesn't make sense for me to tell him, "But you still eat more ice cream than you would if you lived in Texas!" If he doesn't eat ice cream, he doesn't eat ice cream.

You can't take a statistic about a group -- whether it's per capita ice cream consumption in Vermont or average income of white Americans or percentage of black Americans that have a criminal record or whatever -- and use that to make definitive statements about someone else's individual experience. Ben & Jerry's does not magically appear in your freezer because you live in Vermont. You don't get a monthly check from the Illuminati for being white. There isn't an alien mind-control ray that will make you commit crimes because you're black.

Are white people as a group better off than some other groups? Yeah. Does that mean every white person on the planet is benefiting from it at the individual level? No. Some do, some don't.

[Chiggers]

I believe it exists, but only because white people have historically worked hard to obtain such privilege and preference over other races. Although, it also depends on other factors, such as where the white person lives, who is favoring them over other races and why, what the white person looks like (a 600lb smelly trailer trash white girl, while I have no statistics to back this claim up, would probably not be favored over well-dressed and well-kept non-whites), and even their personality.

However, white people also experience many disadvantages due to their race, such as having white privileged being used to guilt trip them into silence, and having their home countries flooded with dangerous refugees with volatile beliefs, and white Americans being killed by blacks far more than vice versa, but nobody bats an eye at that. (Hello, BLM.)

There's also other privileges and disadvantages that all other races experience as well, due to their race (or in many cases, the country they come from). How their ancestors and modern brethren act are what shape these societal perceptions, as well as what ever narrative is being pushed.

[New Rogernomics]

I don't like use of the term 'privilege', as it is a broad generalization of the problem.

In America, the rich and powerful are largely of European descent, but not all of them are.

They are just as fine with quashing the economic rights and economic standing of Americans with European descent, as they are of Black or African Americans.

Black or African Americans are unfairly targeted and profiled, but it is also the case that because of economic and social hardship, a larger proportion are in prison or have a criminal conviction.

So it isn't so much of 'white privilege', as generations of being in economic and social hardship holding people down, and it being extremely difficult to escape from that.

Eventually, stereotypes are formed about Black or African Americans, or just continue on.

That's how you get police and government departments responding differently, as they have a perception reinforced by stereotypes going back generations.

If it was just a matter of 'privilege', it would have ended a long time ago. But it is much more extensive than just select advantages, and can't be resolved simply by passing quotas, or by affirmative action.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

Let me quote Cracked writer David Wong (that's a pseudonym by the way, he's actually a middle-aged white dude from small-town Illinois) on this one

"After all," you say, "I might be a white dude, but the one-room apartment I live in bears a lot closer resemblance to the ghetto than the mansion Flavor Flav lives in. If you don't want me judging people based on the color of their skin, why are you judging me on mine? To say I have 'white privilege' is a cruel joke, considering that for lunch I ate a 'hamburger' that was a wad of ramen noodles between two slices of bread."

All of that is technically correct. And I completely get why a low-income, lonely white dude is sick to death of hearing about how his movies, video games, and jokes are racist or sexist or homophobic. The logic is almost impossible to argue with: "If their problems as women are on the level of getting Hollywood to cast a plus-size Wonder Woman, and my problems involve not being able to afford heat in the winter, then it's downright evil to belittle my real problems while demanding I worry about that trivial SJW Tumblr bullshit."

In other words, why can't we start treating each other like individuals based on our position in life, and just drop all of this race/gender stuff that just clouds the issue? Wouldn't that be the fastest way to make things better for everyone?

Sure, and we could totally do that, if we were merely people. The problem is that we can't just collectively agree to make the context of history go away, any more than a bunch of leaves can get together and decide that there is no tree; the roots of history are still feeding us. Blacks are still stuck in neighborhoods with terrible schools and no job opportunities where they're being groomed for a lifetime in the corrections system. Women who want to get jobs as software engineers will find themselves in offices that are 84 percent male.

So, while race is a social construct as are lots of gender roles*, that doesn't mean they're not real -- the systems we're living under today were all built with them in mind.

And if you are a white male in America, you're among the winningest of the winning tribes -- again, even if your own life is a disaster. This is why people say you have "privilege." It doesn't really refer to anything you have, but what you don't have. You may still get shot by a cop some day, but you won't get shot because you're white. As a male, your boss might be less likely to flirt with you, but will be more likely to take your input seriously. And so on.

Changing that doesn't mean they're winning, and you're losing. This isn't about you. There is no "you" at all, outside of this larger context. It's about continuing this winning streak humanity has been on, and trying to build a world in which everybody -- from the poor white dude in the trailer park to the black trans woman in Russia -- has the best possible chance to make something with their lives. We can disagree about how exactly to do that, but as for those people talking about the "good old days" and getting back to "traditional" values? The best thing I can say about them is that they can't possibly know what they're asking for.

Yes white privilege is real, but a lot of people take the idea way too seriously. White privilege doesn't negate any other disadvantages some white people have in US society, such as living in bad neighborhoods or not having access to educational opportunities. It doesn't mean non-white people can't enjoy other advantages that can help them get ahead either.

[Aellex]

Again, the idea itself has no such concept of original guilt. That was retroactively added in by political interest groups motivated by their insecurities.

"If you're white, then you're inherently treated better by society by birth-right alone and you must atone for it by self-flagellating about it."
While the last part is optional, there is no denying that the first one can't be understood as anything but original sin and it's essentially what white privilege is about.

Much like the rest of identity politics, it's a bid to divide the populace into smaller sub-groups that are easier to rule over and exploit. That so much people buy into it actually baffle me.

[New Granadeseret]

I think I need to paraphrase a YouTuber I enjoy watching to express my opinion on this subject. "Everyone is in the perfect position to see all the drawbacks to being whatever it is we are."

-LindyBeige

I'm not going to deny that being white results in people treating me differently in different circumstances than they would treat, say, a black person. In certain circumstances with certain people, this is to my advantage: and that needs to be acknowledged. However, I think the problem is that such acknowledgement is expected is because I would appreciate it if other people also acknowledged they enjoy advantages in different sets of circumstances, and that's not something the mainstream in modern Western society seems to be willing to support.

"Privilege" isen't something that exists for only a single group, as that mainstream seems to assert. The fact that women and people of a higher melonian content are given preferential treatment in a number of cases dosen't mean that I can't also enjoy preferential treatment over them in different cases: and the fact that they don't readily acknowledge the former themselves means that I should also consider weather or not I'm less likely to acknowledge my own advantages. It's the lack of a consistent standard of what a group is able to accurately perceive regarding its advantages and disadvantages that is bothersome: according to the mainstream narrative, I can't give an accurate statement on minority advantages because I haven't live their lives... but when it comes to my own advantages, I can't give an accurate statement precisiely because I'm living my own life?

The solution, then, is all sides need to be willing to respect eachother and recognize their own fallibility and biases. Only once we have a consistent and mutually acceptable standard on how to indenting if a group does or does not enjoy a certain privilege can we have a productive conversation. This applies to whites as well as blacks, men as well as women. What I can't tolerate is inconsistency of definition or hypocracy/intellectual arrogance by one group over others.

[Shofercia]

Copy of a post I made, and to avoid derailing the post, decided to open a new thread to discuss.
Original post.
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You know, I really get tired of the "white privilege" argument. It's essentially boils down to...
Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP! You don't know how good you got it, so your opinion is ignored unless you agree with all the poor, unfortunate souls that have it worse than you! Admit you are evil, otherwise we cannot talk.

Hell, do not take this as a personal attack, but to that logic I say...
Screw that. My opinion and logic is just as valid and worth as much as anyone else, irregardless of my skin tone.
And also, I have yet to experience the bliss of "White Privilege". Please, tell me how to apply for this grand status.
Money and opportunity given to me for being white? Nope, unemployed disabled vet, can't seem to get a job to save my life, live near destitute on my disability.
Free from discrimination? Nope, was often "Prejudiced" against when I was a correctional officer by my Captain before being fired for getting hurt, and hey, it was ok since he was black and I was white. (Including calling me cracker, accusing me of being racist even though I was accepted as non racist by my peers, it was a minority heavy department)
Not being watched while shopping? Nope, due to my balding head, and shaving it, I am often watched by store staff, since I look like a skinhead. Although slightly offensive, I can live with it.
Feeling accepted because of my race? Nope, often lived in minority heavy locations (Have always been poor), was like a single grain of rice in an otherwise colorful bowl, and often abused by , well, not racist (since one cannot be racist to a white person per Academia) but "prejudicist" teachers and administrative staff, including beatings when my mother had sent in a no paddling note beforehand.
So please, please tell me where the local "white Privilege" office is so I can apply for my whitey card, and cash in on these benefits.

Just because middle class and above want to feel less guilty for their economic privilege by blaming it on race, and shame their fellow white Americans for their made up white privilege to feel better about the benefits they have from being born wealthier, does not shame me. And if you let it shame you, and you feel shame for the color of your skin, something you have absolutely No freaking control over!
Well, your existence must be hell I guess. No wonder white apologists want all whites to die, if they live with shame and guilt like that due to something they cannot change.
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Well, my point stands. The claim of "White privilege" in an discussion, IMHO, is a cop out. It's an attempt to shut the other person up, to shame them into silence. I have had a difficult life, and have never experienced any white privilege. If anything, my life would have been easier if I was a minority. (More chances at advancement, better opportunities for help, support of those over me in an authoritarian sense, not having to prove I am not racist, having an organization to go to when I was discriminated against, etc)
And before people bring up the police, white people are often killed by police, it's just not reported near as much as it is not as divisive. Kelly Thomas for example, surrendered to police, never resisted, and was beaten savagely by officers crying for help from his dad until he died, over 9 minutes of pure unadulterated savage beating. Oh, and the officers were found not guilty of any wrongdoing, BTW.
An article that states more whites are killed by police than blacks. Again, not based on race, but economic class is the deciding factor of how likely one will survive an encounter with police.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/
Well, nationstates?
1-Is white privilege a cop out argument, real or not?
2-Are people confusing economic privilege/advantage with racial privilege/advantage?
3-If white privilege is, in your opinion real, what exactly is it? As in, what are some examples?

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My answers
1-It's a total cop out, and not completely true.
2-Totally, the entire point of my post.
3-It's not actually real. There is benefits to all races, and penalties. Depends on location and circumstance.

"White Privilege" was designed as a bullshit argument to deny minorities Basic American Rights that white people enjoy, by labeling these Rights as a "privilege", and to eventually take these Rights away from white people. For example:

"White people get treated respectfully by cops - white privilege!"
Bill of Rights implies: "all people must be treated respectfully by cops!"

If it's in the Bill of Rights - it's a Right, not a privilege. It's in the name!

[The Conez Imperium]

I don't understand why this is so controversial, it seems like a pretty easy to understand concept. Perhaps the word privilege portrays the wrong meaning. Although the concept is not exclusive to just being white.

My friend described it to me as such. Imagine life as a video game with varying degrees of difficulty. There's easy mode, normal mode and the not so easy modes. In video games, difficult level doesn't stop you from winning the game (whatever goal that may be) it just makes it harder to accomplish

Easy mode would be being born into the British royal family. You essentially don't have to worry about anything.

Normal mode would be born as a statistical average citizen of your nation. You have no disadvantages and start life on a default ability. I think the majority of people fall into this category in a broad ethnic sense: Being white in a "white majority country" would be normal mode.

The not so easy modes are when you have disadvantage. Say for example, your mother dies during childbirth, you can still theoretically beat the game (obtain a nice job) it will just be harder as you will have less familial support. A lot of people in some sense fall into the category due to factors outside their control (family issues, birth defects, life). In the concept of ethnicity, being in the minority compared to the majority would be a harder difficulty. Nothing to stop you from being elected as president/prime minister but statistically less likely than someone on normal mode.

[Valrifell]

Again, the idea itself has no such concept of original guilt. That was retroactively added in by political interest groups motivated by their insecurities.

"If you're white, then you're inherently treated better by society by birth-right alone and you must atone for it by self-flagellating about it."
While the last part is optional, there is no denying that the first one can't be understood as anything but original sin and it's essentially what white privilege is about.

Much like the rest of identity politics, it's a bid to divide the populace into smaller sub-groups that are easier to rule over and exploit. That so much people buy into it actually baffle me.

(See monitor's points, since those basically sum up my own)

I don't understand or like the idea that the idea of white privilege itself (which has basis in various statistical analysis) is one that necessarily divides us. There are, in fact, issues that a particular group experiences that one doesn't, since history is complicated. That's not trying to be divisive, that's a fact.

Though, making your identity the forefront of any discussion isn't too smart (that goes all ways, you know).

[SD_Film Artists]

"Privilege" does exist in the form of entrenched power in society, however the concept of "white privilege" is often exaggerated and abused by the ctrl-left who use it as an excuse to be misandrist and racist towards white people.

To paraphrase Maajid Nawaz: "Sorry Diane Abbot MP [wealthy black woman], if you think that you can walk into a council estate and tell a white, working class boy that he has more power than you and that's why you can be sexist and racist towards him, then that's a load of rubbish."