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Do you think these 5 amendments need to be added?

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Keshiland
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Do you think these 5 amendments need to be added?

Postby Keshiland » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:49 pm

28th- Money out of politics. (Can't find text for this one the only one already out there) Basically, removes Citizen united

29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.

30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.

31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 40% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.
Last edited by Keshiland on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Keshiland
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Postby Keshiland » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:49 pm

I think we need these to get this nation back on track.
OOC- I am a Prolife Liberal who is Anti Gun, Pro Immigration, Pro UHC, Pro financial aid, and anything that makes children's lives better. I am also eco-friendly.

IC- The Federation of Keshiland stands for freedom and local governance. Requirements for state hood. A territory atleast 1,000 KL and a population of atleast 100k. Our Constitution keeps us free and can only be changed with a 3/4ths ratification of the states.

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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:19 pm

No.

None of the above.

What does cost of living, even mean? Donald Trump's cost of living is much higher than mine, can I get paid his cost of living.
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Keshiland
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Postby Keshiland » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:21 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:No.

None of the above.

What does cost of living, even mean? Donald Trump's cost of living is much higher than mine, can I get paid his cost of living.


It means to live in an apartment in DC.
OOC- I am a Prolife Liberal who is Anti Gun, Pro Immigration, Pro UHC, Pro financial aid, and anything that makes children's lives better. I am also eco-friendly.

IC- The Federation of Keshiland stands for freedom and local governance. Requirements for state hood. A territory atleast 1,000 KL and a population of atleast 100k. Our Constitution keeps us free and can only be changed with a 3/4ths ratification of the states.

State count 135

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Postby United Republic of Lepala » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:23 pm

I'm not sure about the first 2, but the last three definitely need to be made.
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Ohioan Territory
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Postby Ohioan Territory » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:24 pm

Removing the electoral college is an insanely poor idea.

Removing the electoral college will effectively drown out the voices and the votes of everyone that does not live in a big city. Politicians will only need the support of inner cities to win elections. Not sure if you realize this or not, but farmers are very important to society as a whole... they can survive without us city-dwellers but we cannot survive without them. The electoral college is literally designed so their votes have slightly more weight than the vote of those in inner cities (because, you know, there are less of those in rural areas) thus making the voting process equal.
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Luxil
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Postby Luxil » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:26 pm

Only the 28th might have merit, none of the others should be passed.

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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:27 pm

Maybe, no, a strong no, maybe, and hell no.
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Postby The Widening Gyre » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:27 pm

Ohioan Territory wrote:but farmers are very important to society as a whole... they can survive without us city-dwellers but we cannot survive without them.


Can they though? I mean, would be pretty hard to be a farmer without the farm equipment, chemical ferilizers, antibiotics, pesticides etc that urban centres make.
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A Rational Anarchist
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Postby A Rational Anarchist » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:28 pm

Keshiland wrote:29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.


Any particular reason why three-fourths of state legislatures will approve this?

Keshiland wrote:30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.


Nuking the entire Congress is going to require way more than one line. Like, seriously, we're replacing all of Article One here.

Keshiland wrote:31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 5% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.


Entirely unnecessary as the Constitution already provides for removal for cause. The "for cause" bit is rather important since the "cause we lost the election" alternative is a recipe for electoral/constitutional/civil war chaos.

Keshiland wrote:32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.


Redundant per the whole point of the Supreme Court and Amendment Ten. Also, do you really think "Section 2" is any more likely than a flat-out repeal of Amendment Two?

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:31 pm

Get that amendment 32 garbage outta here.
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Keshiland
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Postby Keshiland » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:32 pm

Also, do you really think "Section 2" is any more likely than a flat-out repeal of Amendment Two?


100% people are much more likely to support this as well it's less direct than a repeal would be in peoples eyes.
OOC- I am a Prolife Liberal who is Anti Gun, Pro Immigration, Pro UHC, Pro financial aid, and anything that makes children's lives better. I am also eco-friendly.

IC- The Federation of Keshiland stands for freedom and local governance. Requirements for state hood. A territory atleast 1,000 KL and a population of atleast 100k. Our Constitution keeps us free and can only be changed with a 3/4ths ratification of the states.

State count 135

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Ohioan Territory
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Postby Ohioan Territory » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:33 pm

I'd like to make a case against all of these, actually.
Keshiland wrote:28th- Money out of politics. (Can't find text for this one the only one already out there) Basically, removes Citizen united

So you don't think I should be able to give money to the politician I support? This would hurt lesser-known politicians. How do you expect them to muster up the money to combat well-known career politicians or mega-rich runners like Trump?
Keshiland wrote:29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.

Cost of living? There are people that happily live below the poverty line. Bad idea simply because the "cost of living" is something you nor I nor anyone cannot determine.
Keshiland wrote:30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.

Already explained why this is a horrible idea.
Keshiland wrote:31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 5% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

Five percent? That's awful low. You must want a lot of recall elections.
Keshiland wrote:32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

Bad idea because your political bias is extremely obvious. Why do you limit this to the second amendment and not others, say the 15th or 19th, hm?
Last edited by Ohioan Territory on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:34 pm

Keshiland wrote:
Also, do you really think "Section 2" is any more likely than a flat-out repeal of Amendment Two?


100% people are much more likely to support this as well it's less direct than a repeal would be in peoples eyes.


Nobody apart from people who already want to repeal it would support your nonsense, lol.
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Ohioan Territory
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Postby Ohioan Territory » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:35 pm

The Widening Gyre wrote:
Ohioan Territory wrote:but farmers are very important to society as a whole... they can survive without us city-dwellers but we cannot survive without them.


Can they though? I mean, would be pretty hard to be a farmer without the farm equipment, chemical ferilizers, antibiotics, pesticides etc that urban centres make.

Yeah, I'm sure farmers know how to get by without machinery and pesticides well enough to the point that they would be able to survive without them.
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Eol Sha
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Postby Eol Sha » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:37 pm

Keshiland wrote:28th- Money out of politics. (Can't find text for this one the only one already out there) Basically, removes Citizen united

29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.

30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.

31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 5% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

28A - Absolutely. Also, Cenk Uygur's Wolf PAC has a stand-up 28th Amendment that wants this and more.

29A, sec. 1- What does this mean? The cost of living for what place? DC? Miami? Seattle? St. Helena?
29A, sec. 2- What benefits are you referring to?
29A, sec. 3- This should start once the next Congress is sworn in. Either way, I oppose this amendment.

30A, sec. 1- I think this is fine. Although, I don't really have a problem with the electoral college.
30A, sec. 2- Absolutely not. I like the district system. Maybe we should change how congressmen and women are elected, but I don't think the concept of physical districts should also be thrown out. Representatives should represent their constituents first. Not the party. I do support increasing the number of congressional seats, though. 1000 might be too many, though.

31A, sec. 1- This threshold is way too low. I think 40% is a much better minimum. Otherwise, you'd have recall elections every damn week.
31A, sec. 2- I think this should just be a simple majority.

32A, sec. 1- What does this even mean? The states don't and shouldn't get to decide the constitutionality of a federal law. Leave that to the courts.
32A, sec. 2- Umm...no. They should have to uphold all of the amendments.
Last edited by Eol Sha on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Luxil » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:38 pm

Keshiland wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:No.

None of the above.

What does cost of living, even mean? Donald Trump's cost of living is much higher than mine, can I get paid his cost of living.


It means to live in an apartment in DC.

Wouldn't that lead to more politicians giving in to brides?

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Postby Destructive Government Economic System » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:41 pm

I'm only going to give my opinion for 2 of them:

For the 30th one, I like the concept of more popular votes, but the part where it expands the House of Representatives to a count of 1,000 is just way too many. Where did you get that idea from?

The 32nd one just plain sucks. It's kinda the reason why there was a Civil War in the first place (states rights was a reason, yes).
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Keshiland
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Postby Keshiland » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:43 pm

Destructive Government Economic System wrote:I'm only going to give my opinion for 2 of them:

For the 30th one, I like the concept of more popular votes, but the part where it expands the House of Representatives to a count of 1,000 is just way too many. Where did you get that idea from?

The 32nd one just plain sucks. It's kinda the reason why there was a Civil War in the first place (states rights was a reason, yes).


To make it a simple 1/10th of a percent per seat. Makes counting the votes simpler. The main reason for the switch to parliament is to stop gerrymandering.
Last edited by Keshiland on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OOC- I am a Prolife Liberal who is Anti Gun, Pro Immigration, Pro UHC, Pro financial aid, and anything that makes children's lives better. I am also eco-friendly.

IC- The Federation of Keshiland stands for freedom and local governance. Requirements for state hood. A territory atleast 1,000 KL and a population of atleast 100k. Our Constitution keeps us free and can only be changed with a 3/4ths ratification of the states.

State count 135

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Postby Gun Manufacturers » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:50 pm

Keshiland wrote:28th- Money out of politics. (Can't find text for this one the only one already out there) Basically, removes Citizen united

29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.

30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.

31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 5% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.


Wow, there's nothing there that I would support.
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Postby Galloism » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:52 pm

Gun Manufacturers wrote:
Keshiland wrote:28th- Money out of politics. (Can't find text for this one the only one already out there) Basically, removes Citizen united

29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.

30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.

31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 5% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.

32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.


Wow, there's nothing there that I would support.

28th could be good if it weren't so vague.

30th looks pretty good generally.

29th, 31st, and 32nd need to be burned.
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Postby Dytarma » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:53 pm

The Widening Gyre wrote:
Ohioan Territory wrote:but farmers are very important to society as a whole... they can survive without us city-dwellers but we cannot survive without them.


Can they though? I mean, would be pretty hard to be a farmer without the farm equipment, chemical ferilizers, antibiotics, pesticides etc that urban centres make.

They can always farm like they did in the 1700s - 1800s. Sure, it'll be harder, but they can still live without the big cities.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:55 pm

5 Amendments added to what? The local garbage truck?
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Postby Common Territories » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Most of these have already been covered or are essentially unconstitutional. The last one especially is both redundant and unconstitutional based on the 10th Amendment and the US Constitution's "Supremacy Claus". The first aforementioned item hands down powers to States not delegated by Congress or other higher authority, essentially giving them the ability to decide their fate so long as it's not yet delegated by Congress, the Supreme Court, or the Federal Government. Secondly, violating the Constitution, which this 32nd Amendment will do is (wait for it) unconstitutional; you cannot disregard a constitutional right because you don't like it - Chicago and Illinois learned that lesson when their outright ban on guns forced them to simply make it too hard for people to get them, otherwise the Feds would come in and write it for them. Now why is it the 2nd and not say the 1st or the 13th Amendments being allowed to be ignored by States? Why not any other Amendment? It's probably because you are clearly biased towards guns and want them banned for whatever reason(s) you may have. But back on topic. You cannot strip an Amendment ratified by Congress unless it's striked down by the Supreme Court or Congress nullifies it like it did with the 18th Amendment using the 19th Amendment. But the Supremacy Clause clearly states: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." This means that even if this 32nd Amendment passed (which it would never, ever, in our lifetimes at least) it would be immediately striked down by the Supreme court for violating the Constitution via granting State's unconstitutional sovereignty and inhibiting the 2nd Amendment.

Tbh, a lot of this stuff proposed here is redundant to a point and clearly violates the Constitution; there are already laws that allow for recalls (Wisconsin's Governor survived one for instance) and describe how Congressmen/women should be treated (btw, your Amendment radically changing how their citizenship works is unconstitutional too). Either you're American and don't understand much of how the government as a whole works, or, you're from another country I assume and want to bring those systems/values to America. Im personally leaning towards the latter because your 30th Amendment would utterly destroy the political system this country has been founded on, as will others, and usher in a civil war probably (people tend to not like an unfair representative system, which yours proposes). Don't know which is correct nor do I care. All I know is is that these Amendments will never be put up for vote let alone be proposed to any committee, and they in all honest shouldn't be because they're grossly unconstitutional if not redundant to already existing laws.

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Ex-Nation

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:01 pm

Keshiland wrote:28th- Money out of politics. (Can't find text for this one the only one already out there) Basically, removes Citizen united


I am all for reversing citizens united. People should be able to give politicians/campaigns/parties money but corporations should not.

Keshiland wrote:29th- Salary of Congress and the president.
Section 1- The salary of all legislators and executive persons shall be no more than the cost of living.
Section 2- All persons in the legislatures or executive branches of the federal and state governments, shall be stripped of all benefits during and after terms are complete.
Section 3- This goes into effect 1 week from passing.


No, it should not be the cost of living as that can change immensely in different areas. It should not be minimum wage either as that would just make the right wing claim it as an attempt to raise minimum wage and kill businesses. Instead it should be set to the median wage of their constituents. This means trump would make like 50-60k a year. However the representative of Detroit would only make 26k a year.

Not sure you can do anything about the money corporate lobbyists hand politicians for "working" for them after their terms in congress. "hey be an adviser for a year, here have 26 million dollars and a private jet :eyebrow:

Keshiland wrote:30th- Removing the electoral college and making the house a parliament
Section 1- The EC shall be removed and replaced by a national popular vote.
Section 2- The house of representatives will be expanded to 1000 members and reward seats to parties based on how much of the vote a party received 1 seat per 1/1000th of the vote. Independents must get seated if they win more than 1/1000th of the vote.
Section 3- Amendment goes into effect when current terms end.


No, I am actually ok with the president being chosen by aristocrats. The Senators are chosen by the states who have chosen to defer to popular vote. Representatives are the problem. Gerrymandering and first past the poll voting has completely ruined the institution. It doesn't even come close to mirroring the popular vote that was originally meant to choose it and the disproportions of voters to representatives have lead to some votes being worth less then others. This is blatantly against the intent of its establishment. Fixing this should be the priority of any amendment passed.

Keshiland wrote:31st- Recall vote
Section 1- A recall vote can be called for any elected official if more than 5% of eligible voters for said official signs a petition.
Section 2- If more than 66% of eligible voters vote for recall then the official is removed and a new election must be held with in 20 days.
Section 3- Effective once passed.


5% is absurdly low. A recall vote would be occurring constantly. I don't think you realize how easy it would be to get 17 million signatures with the derisive climate and two party system we have in place. Thus once again I say no. If we addressed the previous one and let the politics in this country turn into a multi party system with factions and coalition governments we could consider popular recall votes as more tangible but even then 5% would be absurdly low.

Keshiland wrote:32nd- State sovereignty
Section 1- States do not have to adhere to any law that the federal government did not have the constitutional authority to pass.
Section 2- States must uphold all amendments except the 2nd.
Section 3- Effective once passed.


That is what the supreme court is for. Also be careful about creating precedents for civil liberty exceptions.
Whoever said "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink" has clearly never drown a horse.

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