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The Barcid Legacy (AH/OOC/Signup)

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New Granadeseret
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The Barcid Legacy (AH/OOC/Signup)

Postby New Granadeseret » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:12 am

Image

Never when the city was in safety was there so great a panic and confusion within the walls of Rome. What the blaze and the riotous mobs did not consume, my compatriots spirit out with them under the cover of the chaos. I shall therefore shrink from this task, and not attempt to relate what in describing I must make less than the reality. The consul and his army having been lost at the Trasimenus the year before, it was not one wound upon another which was announced, but a multiplied disaster, the loss of two consular armies, together with the two consuls: and that now there was neither any Roman camp, nor general nor soldiery: that Apulia and Samnium, and now almost the whole of Italy, were in the possession of Hannibal. And upon all these humiliations, to see the gods themselves bring down their wrath upon his: what nation would not have been overwhelmed by such an accumulation of misfortune?

—P ublius Cornelius Scipio Latinus The last Roman Senator , describing the final days of the Roman Consulate and the Great Fire of Roma as well as his motivations for surrender



I have sworn to carry on a war of extermination against the Romans. I am contending for honour and empire. My ancestors yielded to Roman valour. I am endeavouring that others, in their turn, will be obliged to yield to my valour, and the favour of my gods.

To my father on earth and the heavens, my oath is fulfilled

-Hannibal "The Lightening Bolt" Barcid, following The Battle of the Ruins of Roma


Today, in some minor provincial town where an old king named David once came from, a pregnant woman and her husband who arrived late for the local festival ended up giving birth to their son in the stable out back. In a few decades, perhaps, some fringe elements of the Judeaic tribes would have taken his theological ramblings to heart and start some fringe sect of their fringe belief system, but who really cares about what those deluded monotheists and their quaint tribal mythology from the edges of the civilized world think, right? Every minor cult known to the Republic has at least one so-called "Prophet" who tried to hitch themselves to the new star that appeared in the sky that night as a sign of their "Divine Birth"

Of course, every properly educated individual knew the star was a sign of Ba'al Hammon's favor at a much more important birth. At very beating heart of civilization, the Jewel off the Mediterranean: a city of amythest set in the golden ring of her sandy shelter of her bustling harbor, the latest scion of the great Barcid household came into the world; a daughter of unmatched beauty. For over 250 years, the Barcid name had been constantly on the minds of and celebrated by the citizens of Carthage's dominion: having lead the city's armies during its darkest hours, facing down the one nation who'd ever posed a material threat to Phoenician dominance over the sea at the center of the World: the Roman Consulate. The three Latium Wars had been the longest and most bloodily fought in their long history: struggles in which the very existence of both civilizations seemed to hang constantly in the balance.

Who' knows what bloody horror the world would have come to if the militant and barbaric Romans, dedicated blindly to their war-god Mars who celebrated brute force and violent suppression over the wisdom of tactics and the wealth of commerce, had managed to bring their iron heel down on the neck of the world. Thankfully, 215 years ago thei legendary hero Hannibal, Son of Hamilcar, alongside his brothers brought a final end to their nation in the third of his five "Mircles"; surronding four whole Roman armies on the plains of Cannea (As, obviously, the gods had portended in seeing the land named after the great Phonecian tribe of the Canneanites): the Latins in their foolishness charging like a bull into the great general's trap, making the same mistake they had made at the Trebia and Lake Trassimene. Wheeling his elite Numidian cavalry around the side and emphasizing the weakness of his center to draw the Romans in, Hannibal swallowed a fifth of Rome's male population and both its consoles in a manner of hours: showing the superiority of mobility and tactics over raw strength as he effectively squeezed in from all sides, choking the life out of the Republic.

Unsurprisingly, panic gripped the city's elite. Seeing their allies abandon them on all sides as news of the defeat spread, the streets filled with widows and orphans, and effectively leaderless, it was impossible to expect any nation not to be be brought to its knees by such a massacre. Enraptured by fear, the elite were the first to flee the city: followed quickly by old men and boys who refused to volunteer to be sent into the slaughter under leadership which had proven entirely incompetent. Civil order within the walls effectively collapsed... which ensured that, when a great thunderstorm swept over the city and found a bolt of lightening striking a poor neighborhood, there was no fire brigade to control the blaze.

The anarchy and fire fed into one another: panic and disorder allowing the damage to spread, which only caused more and more people to flee. The stores of food, its towers, the armories: everything that could have allowed the city to withstand a siege or field an army disappeared into smoke, the temples to the defeated Roman deities and their sacrifices gutted and left with nothing more than piles of ashes within. Within the span of a month, the Republic was effectively gone: surviving elements of the Roman army making one last, desperate stand atop still-standing poritions of the wall 213 year ago under the leadership of a self-declared Dictator Cornelius Scipio "The Latin". Rome had been destroyed, and upon its ruins Carthage stood as the sole great power in the Western Sea: the city-states once allied with Rome and independent colonies and tribes bending the knee before Hannibal's legendary prowess and unassailable army.

The Barcas were rewarded for their service to the Senate with near-absolute power over their conquests in Iberia: Hannibal's relatives continuing to grow in influence and wealth from the region's silver and mineral riches while other families were tasked with rebuilding a peninsula ruined by over a decade and a half of warfare and the despoiling, futile efforts of Roman remenants who burned and stole supplies out of spite. Punic colonies were established along the shores, acting as bases from which the refined culture of their civilization and the wealth and technology it brought could be spread to the Gaulic tribes, and formed the basis of the city's power for eventual clashes with the Hellens, Egyptians, Persians, and other peoples of the East: reconnecting Carthage to their ancestor's homeland in the Levant. Now, as a new century dawns, the horizon beckoned to all the civilized world: there are seas to sail, wars to fight, and barbarians to bring into the fold.


Application

NS Name:
Nation/Governorship Name:
Flag/Standard:
Claims:
Capital City:
Other Major Population Centers:

Leading Family/Dynasty:
Imperial Loyaltys (If Governor/Subfaction)
Family Head:
Head Personality:
Notable Members (Political):
Notable Members (Military Leaders):
Primary Dynastic Values:
Dynastic Goals:
Dynasty Culture:

Population:
% of Population of Dynastic Culture:
Culture Group (Mediterranean, Oriental, Hellenic, Barbaric, or Nomadic):
Other major Cultures:

Military Size:
-Melee Infantry (Write as Standing/Mercenaries):
-Missle Infantry (See Above)
-Cavalry (See above):
-Naval (Ships, not Sailors):
-Specialized/Unique Troops (Describe):
Military Philsophy (General Tactics, etc.):
Specialization/Advantages:

Brief Description of Technology (1-3 paragraphs)
Brief Description of Culture/Society (1-3 paragraphs):
Brief Description of Economy (1-3 paragraphs):
Notable History:
RP Sample:

Jezebel (Do not remove, for Tracking)





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Stannis was robbed.

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New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:29 am

Rules

Rule I: Though shalt not Mod any Gods before me: Self-explanatory. Everything you do has to happen for a explainable reason, and can't be too wacky or out-of-character.

Rule II: Though shalt not be an idle: If you're not going to be reasonably active, please don't sign up. To avoid important nations being held up, reservations will be good for 48 hours: be sure to finish them before that.

Rule III: The shalt not use they language in vain: Please keep content and discussion civil, or at least period appropriate (speaking in positive terms about slavery or acting in shock to an atheist state would thus be acceptable, within limits)

Rule IV: Though shalt remember the Canon and kept it holy IE. The Canon is the law. If an event has already been established to have happened (by a nation reflecting on their own history, for instance) please keep this in mid and do not contradict it, and keep it in mind if need be.

Rule V: Honor thigh Limitations You can't do everything at once. Most countries have political, logistic, communication, ect. issues that prevent you from overextending yourself. Technology is also that of the first year of the Common Eraa

Rule VI: Do Kill BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE. Seriously; have some conflicts at some point; just keep in mind Rule VI

Rule VII: Do Commit Adult-ness: Avoid text-speak and generally childish ways of writing; we're all adults here

Rule VIII: Don't Steal too much stuff: Gather some secret intelligence is alright, but you don't know exactly what's happening in the palace of a nation on the other side of the known world if they're moving troops, making major visible changes, ect. you can act like you know, but if it's written in a way that seems secret, keep it secret.

Rule IV: Nothing clever to say here Covet they neighbors stuff all you want

Rule X: Don't boil a kid in it's mother's milk: If you do, you're kicked out of the RP. A general rule against being too graphic; not too much blood or gore or inserting of tab A into slot B
Stannis was robbed.

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New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:30 am

Reserved for Map, Canon/Histories summery, and NPC factions.
Stannis was robbed.

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New Granadeseret
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Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:22 pm

Badump?
Stannis was robbed.

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Stjernland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Jun 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Stjernland » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Application

NS Name: Stjernland
Nation/Governorship Name: Kingdom of Epirus
Flag/Standard:
Image
Claims: Epirus, Macedon, Thessaly, and the southernmost parts of Illyria; effective control in Epirus and northern Thessaly
Capital City: Ambrakia
Other Major Population Centers: Epidamnos, Apollonia, Phoenike, Antigonea, and Larissa

Leading Family/Dynasty: Gelid Dynasty
Imperial Loyalties: The Gelid Dynasty of Epirus, while keen to associate themselves with the earlier Molossian and Macedonian dynasties of the mainland in their royal propaganda, are actually indirect descendants of Pyrrhus through his great granddaughter Nereis and the Gelo, Tyrant of Syracuse. They have thus striven to bring a more enlightened approach to despotic rule than their predecessors, often governing indirectly through puppets and alliances. This has allowed them to foster good relations with their homeland of Syracuse, whom they've assisted against the Carthaginians, as well as the city-states to their south, most especially members of the Aetolian League. While Epirus has often been subjugated by the more powerful Kingdom of Macedon to the east, Lysander, an impetuous young man of twenty three years, has cast of the imperial yoke and invaded Thessaly on two separate occasions, causing mass defections and capturing much booty. Epirus's darkest days appear to be behind her.
Family Head: Lysander II Geliades, King of Epirus and Macedon, Protector of Greece
Head Personality: Lysander is well-known for his mercurial temper with regards to his and his family's honor, his dauntless courage, and his sharp strategic mind, with many of his troops hailing him as the second coming of Pyrrhus. He is not quite arrogant, but certainly prideful. His manners are refined and his sensibilities notably Hellenistic and cosmopolitan, as evidenced by his granting permission for both Christian and Buddhist missionaries to spread their cults throughout his kingdom. In terms of his personal philosophy, Lysander has embraced stoicism with quiet rigor. He is not an altogether religious man either, but has enough prudence to listen respectfully to the beliefs and arguments of others. Unlike many Greeks, his athleticism is negligible. His clubfoot and relatively slender figure are not conducive to physical exertions beyond those inherent in riding and breaking horses. Aside from the equestrian arts, Lysander has an enthusiasm for poetry and music, playing the lyre with uncommon beauty and frailty.
Notable Members (Military Leaders): Lysander Geliades, Neoptolemus Geliades (uncle), Rhadamanthos of Thrace (uncle and Thracian officer), Hippolytus Nereiades (Epirote officer), Alcetas Pallaiades (Macedonian officer), Laomedon Gorgiades (Macedonian officer), Abreas Keraunos (brother), Philip Geliades (cousin)
Notable Members (Political Leaders): Lysander Geliades, Cleopatra (mother), Neoptolemus Geliades (uncle), Eudamia (aunt), Eurydice (younger sister), Harmonia (younger sister), Antigone (elder half-sister)
Primary Dynastic Values: Multiculturalism, tolerance, honor, and martial prowess.
Dynastic Goals: Lysander has set about achieving the lifelong ambitions of his father and grandfather in endeavoring to conquer Macedon. His initial expedition revealed the weakness and internal divisions of the once great successor kingdom, and his latest excursion into Thessaly capitalized on this. Alcetas Palliades, a well-respected Macedonian general, defected to Lysander after a pitched battle near Larissa, bringing five thousand infantry and eight hundred cavalry with him, not to mention the entirety of northern Thessaly. Lysander now has a choice, march north to confront the Macedonians or turn south to subjugate the remaining cities of Thessaly. Beyond his conquests on the mainland, Lysander must safeguard the independence of his allies in Magna Graecia against the Latins and the Carthaginians as well.
Dynasty Culture: Hellenistic and Illyrian

Population: 800,000
% of Population of Dynastic Culture: 39.5%
Culture Group: Hellenistic
Other Major Cultures: Illyrian

Military Size: 15,370
-Melee Infantry: 4,000 (standing); 8,100 (mercenary)
-Missle Infantry: 800 (standing); 550 (mercenary)
-Cavalry: 1,620 (standing); 300 (mercenary)
-Naval: 30 ships
-Specialized/Unique Troops: While the phalangites of Epirus hold a great deal in common with those of the other successor states, being perhaps even of somewhat inferior quality, the Molossian king may call upon a diverse plethora of troops to reinforce these. Aside from Macedonian mercenaries and defectors, Lysander holds several bands of Illyrian infantry, thickly armored and equipped with javelins and longswords, in reserve. These men are employed to push apart any gaps that open in enemy phalanxes or to scale the walls of obstinate cities. Gallic, and to a lesser extent Thracian, mercenaries of a similar mold also feature prominently in Lysander's armies. Illyrian and Aetolian light infantry and Cretan archers comprise most of the ranged corps. The heavily armored lancers that represent the flower of Epirote chivalry fight in a fashion similar to the Companion Cavalry of Alexander the Great. Lighter Gallic and Thessalian units complement these. A force of twenty Indian elephants are held in reserve as well.
Military Philosophy: The military philosophy of Epirus bears a strong resemblance to that of his Hellenistic counterparts. A strong phalanx forms the heart of any army. Light cavalry and light infantry are employed to harass the enemy and seize pivotal points on the battlefield before the enemy even arrives. Heavy spear-men reinforce the phalanx and give flexibility to the rigid formation. Heavy cavalry and heavy infantry are used as battering rams, the former at decisive moments in battles. Siege warfare is not a prominent strength of the Epirotes, who are more accustomed to fighting in their own rustic country or in pitched battles abroad. The hammer and anvil is a prominent fixture of Epirote tactics, as is the double envelopment.
Specialization/Advantages: Phalanx, Heavy Cavalry

Brief Description of Technology (1-3 paragraphs): Pending.
Brief Description of Culture/Society (1-3 paragraphs): Pending. I'm really looking forward to this one. It'll let me implement a few changes.
Brief Description of Economy: Pending. Epirus sucks, but at least we're friends with Syracuse and Aetolia.
Notable History: Pending.
RP Sample: Skoistein War

Jezebel (Do not remove, for Tracking)
Last edited by Stjernland on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:26 am, edited 8 times in total.
Want to help build a world? Like to roleplay? Come to Werenth and claim your slice of paradise!

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New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:09 pm

Stjernland wrote:
Application

NS Name: Stjernland
Nation/Governorship Name: Kingdom of Epirus
Flag/Standard:
Claims: Epirus, Macedon, Thessaly, and the southernmost parts of Illyria; effective control in Epirus and northern Thessaly
Capital City: Ambrakia
Other Major Population Centers: Epidamnos, Apollonia, Phoenike, Antigonea, and Larissa

Leading Family/Dynasty: Gelid Dynasty
Imperial Loyalties: The Gelid Dynasty of Epirus, while keen to associate themselves with the earlier Molossian and Macedonian dynasties of the mainland in their royal propaganda, are actually indirect descendants of Pyrrhus through his great granddaughter Nereis and the Gelo, Tyrant of Syracuse. They have thus striven to bring a more enlightened approach to despotic rule than their predecessors, often governing indirectly through puppets and alliances. This has allowed them to foster good relations with their homeland of Syracuse, whom they've assisted against the Carthaginians, as well as the city-states to their south, most especially members of the Aetolian League. While Epirus has often been subjugated by the more powerful Kingdom of Macedon to the east, Lysander, an impetuous young man of twenty three years, has cast of the imperial yoke and invaded Thessaly on two separate occasions, causing mass defections and capturing much booty. Epirus's darkest days appear to be behind her.
Family Head: Lysander II Geliades, King of Epirus and Macedon, Protector of Greece
Head Personality: Lysander is well-known for his mercurial temper with regards to his and his family's honor, his dauntless courage, and his sharp strategic mind, with many of his troops hailing him as the second coming of Pyrrhus. He is not quite arrogant, but certainly prideful. His manners are refined and his sensibilities notably Hellenistic and cosmopolitan, as evidenced by his granting permission for both Christian and Buddhist missionaries to spread their cults throughout his kingdom. In terms of his personal philosophy, Lysander has embraced stoicism with quiet rigor. He is not an altogether religious man either, but has enough prudence to listen respectfully to the beliefs and arguments of others. Unlike many Greeks, his athleticism is negligible. His clubfoot and relatively slender figure are not conducive to physical exertions beyond those inherent in riding and breaking horses. Aside from the equestrian arts, Lysander has an enthusiasm for poetry and music, playing the lyre with uncommon beauty and frailty.
Notable Members (Military Leaders): Lysander Geliades, Neoptolemus Geliades (uncle), Rhadamanthos of Thrace (uncle and Thracian officer), Hippolytus Nereiades (Epirote officer), Alcetas Pallaiades (Macedonian officer), Laomedon Gorgiades (Macedonian officer), Abreas Keraunos (brother), Philip Geliades (cousin)
Notable Members (Political Leaders): Lysander Geliades, Cleopatra (mother), Neoptolemus Geliades (uncle), Eudamia (aunt), Eurydice (younger sister), Harmonia (younger sister), Antigone (elder half-sister)
Primary Dynastic Values: Multiculturalism, tolerance, honor, and martial prowess.
Dynastic Goals: Lysander has set about achieving the lifelong ambitions of his father and grandfather in endeavoring to conquer Macedon. His initial expedition revealed the weakness and internal divisions of the once great successor kingdom, and his latest excursion into Thessaly capitalized on this. Alcetas Palliades, a well-respected Macedonian general, defected to Lysander after a pitched battle near Larissa, bringing five thousand infantry and eight hundred cavalry with him, not to mention the entirety of northern Thessaly. Lysander now has a choice, march north to confront the Macedonians or turn south to subjugate the remaining cities of Thessaly. Beyond his conquests on the mainland, Lysander must safeguard the independence of his allies in Magna Graecia against the Latins and the Carthaginians as well.
Dynasty Culture: Hellenistic and Illyrian

Population: 800,000
% of Population of Dynastic Culture: 39.5%
Culture Group: Hellenistic
Other Major Cultures: Illyrian

Military Size: 15,370
-Melee Infantry: 4,000 (standing); 8,100 (mercenary)
-Missle Infantry: 800 (standing); 550 (mercenary)
-Cavalry: 1,620 (standing); 300 (mercenary)
-Naval: 30 ships
-Specialized/Unique Troops: While the phalangites of Epirus hold a great deal in common with those of the other successor states, being perhaps even of somewhat inferior quality, the Molossian king may call upon a diverse plethora of troops to reinforce these. Aside from Macedonian mercenaries and defectors, Lysander holds several bands of Illyrian infantry, thickly armored and equipped with javelins and longswords, in reserve. These men are employed to push apart any gaps that open in enemy phalanxes or to scale the walls of obstinate cities. Gallic, and to a lesser extent Thracian, mercenaries of a similar mold also feature prominently in Lysander's armies. Illyrian and Aetolian light infantry and Cretan archers comprise most of the ranged corps. The heavily armored lancers that represent the flower of Epirote chivalry fight in a fashion similar to the Companion Cavalry of Alexander the Great. Lighter Gallic and Thessalian units complement these. A force of twenty Indian elephants are held in reserve as well.
Military Philosophy: The military philosophy of Epirus bears a strong resemblance to that of his Hellenistic counterparts. A strong phalanx forms the heart of any army. Light cavalry and light infantry are employed to harass the enemy and seize pivotal points on the battlefield before the enemy even arrives. Heavy spearmen reinforce the phalanx and give flexibility to the rigid formation. Heavy cavalry and heavy infantry are used as battering rams, the former at decisive moments in battles. Siege warfare is not a prominent strength of the Epirotes, who are more accustomed to fighting their own rustic country or to pitched battles abroad.
Specialization/Advantages: Phalanx, Heavy Cavalry

Brief Description of Technology (1-3 paragraphs): Pending.
Brief Description of Culture/Society (1-3 paragraphs): Pending. I'm really looking forward to this one. It'll let me implement a few changes.
Brief Description of Economy (1-3 paragraphs): Pending. Epirus sucks, but at least we're friends with Syracuse and Aetolia.
Notable History: This'll be entertaining. I'll get to explain why the flag is red too.
RP Sample: Skoistein War

Jezebel (Do not remove, for Tracking)



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Stannis was robbed.

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New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:52 pm

One last shot at a bump. Plz? *insert wide-eyed kitten picture here*
Last edited by New Granadeseret on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stannis was robbed.

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Stjernland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Jun 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Stjernland » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:22 am

New Granadeseret wrote:One last shot at a bump. Plz? *insert wide-eyed kitten picture here*

Do you plan to submit an app, Gran? May I call you Gran? Or is that weird?
Want to help build a world? Like to roleplay? Come to Werenth and claim your slice of paradise!

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The Knights of Azorea
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 371
Founded: Jun 07, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Knights of Azorea » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:22 am

Yes, yes, absolutely, I am very, very much up for this in every describable way.

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Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 13782
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:05 am

Why did I not find this at once? I curse the Gods for this negligence and go on to write an app forthwith.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

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New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:31 pm

Stjernland wrote:
New Granadeseret wrote:One last shot at a bump. Plz? *insert wide-eyed kitten picture here*

Do you plan to submit an app, Gran? May I call you Gran? Or is that weird?


You may, and I have a general rule about making apps as the OP (Unless the Ottoman Empire is involved. I'll admit I snatch them up if I can). I try to leave the world open for a little bit and see what important power dosen't have interest being shown in it, to ensure we aren't missing a vital nation (In this case, I might play as the Carthaginian centeral government, for example. Egypt, a Babaylonian faction, Barcid Iberia, or perhaps some kind of major Gaulic entity would be other choices. It all depends on what the thread needs to not die. Once I see a few more reservations, I'll make my decision and submit an app.
Last edited by New Granadeseret on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stannis was robbed.

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Of the Quendi
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14730
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Anarchy

Postby Of the Quendi » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:57 am

I would like to reserve the Parthian/Arsacid Empire. Of the three pre-Islamic Iranian empires it is without a doubt my least favorite, but oh well.

Since the Romans weren't around to finish of the Seleucids would it be possible to claim territory reaching all the way to the Mediterranean and the Levant?
Nation RP name
Arda i Eruhíni (short form)
Alcarinqua ar Meneldëa Arda i Eruhíni i sé Amanaranyë ar Aramanaranyë (long form)

1st runner-up of Best High Fantasy RPer of 2014

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New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:29 am

Of the Quendi wrote:I would like to reserve the Parthian/Arsacid Empire. Of the three pre-Islamic Iranian empires it is without a doubt my least favorite, but oh well.

Since the Romans weren't around to finish of the Seleucids would it be possible to claim territory reaching all the way to the Mediterranean and the Levant?


Yes, but in that case your Empire is a bit too large to not be open to subfactions. I reallly do need to flesh out this portion of the rules, but essentially if somebody wanted to play, say, a satrap or vassal king in the Levant I would allow them to do so (albeit obligated to at least initial loyalty to you). This is just to reflect the fact that massive land empires were really hard to govern directly, given the level of technology and client-king relations that often developed over such vast distances. And to insure the whole map isen't consumed too quickly.
Last edited by New Granadeseret on Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stannis was robbed.

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Of the Quendi
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14730
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Anarchy

Postby Of the Quendi » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:31 am

New Granadeseret wrote:Yes, but in that case your Empire is a bit too large to not be open to subfactions. I reallly do need to flesh out this portion of the rules, but essentially if somebody wanted to play, say, a satrap or vassal king in the Levant I would allow them to do so (albeit obligated to at least initial loyalty to you). This is just to reflect the fact that massive land empires were really hard to govern directly, given the level of technology and client-king relations that often developed over such vast distances. And to insure the whole map isen't consumed too quickly.

Fair enough, but to be honest I have had second thoughts about Parthia and am wondering if I wouldn't want to do a "greater Armenia" thing instead.

I will mull it over a bit and then get to work on an app.
Nation RP name
Arda i Eruhíni (short form)
Alcarinqua ar Meneldëa Arda i Eruhíni i sé Amanaranyë ar Aramanaranyë (long form)

1st runner-up of Best High Fantasy RPer of 2014

User avatar
New Granadeseret
Minister
 
Posts: 3424
Founded: Apr 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Granadeseret » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:29 pm

Of the Quendi wrote:
New Granadeseret wrote:Yes, but in that case your Empire is a bit too large to not be open to subfactions. I reallly do need to flesh out this portion of the rules, but essentially if somebody wanted to play, say, a satrap or vassal king in the Levant I would allow them to do so (albeit obligated to at least initial loyalty to you). This is just to reflect the fact that massive land empires were really hard to govern directly, given the level of technology and client-king relations that often developed over such vast distances. And to insure the whole map isen't consumed too quickly.

Fair enough, but to be honest I have had second thoughts about Parthia and am wondering if I wouldn't want to do a "greater Armenia" thing instead.

I will mull it over a bit and then get to work on an app.



Fair enough.

However, I do need to ask all interested parties: Please be considerate of the OP and others and attach to any post expressing interest what nations/areas you are interested in.
Stannis was robbed.

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Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 13782
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:42 pm

Alright, I'm going for a Peninsular Kingdom in Italy, a vassal of Carthage.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

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Stjernland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Jun 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Stjernland » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:41 pm

I'm planning to alter the history of the Gelid dynasty so that it more closely resembles actual history. This will change the diplomatic situation a bit. Instead of being an ally of Syracuse, Epirus will likely wind up as their mortal enemy, considering the people of Syracuse brutally murdered Gelon's son Hieronymus just a four or five generations before this role-play opens. As a descendant of Hieronymus's sister, Harmonia, Lysander would probably perceive Syracuse as an implacable enemy, second only to Macedon. This might drive him to align himself with the Carthaginian colonies on the Italian peninsula so long as it meant that he might come into possession of Syracuse and other parts of Magna Graecia. On the mainland, his allies would include, so long as no other role-players got involved in the region, the Aetolian League, the Boeotian League, and Athens. His enemies would include the Illyrians, the Kingdom of Macedon, the Corinthian League, and Sparta. He'd also likely have a strong, I daresay burning, desire to raze Argos to the ground. I'm working on the history.
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Reverend Norv
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Postby Reverend Norv » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:31 am

I'd like to reserve the Hasmonean Kingdom. To have survived this long, it would need to have subjugated the Nabateans; otherwise, squeezed between Persia and Egypt, two such small kingdoms would quickly have been divided up and conquered. But the marriage of these two Semitic peoples would clearly be uneasy. So I'm interested in an area stretching roughly from the Litani River in the north to the modern Meda'in Salih in the south, and from the Isthmus of Suez in the west to Dumatha in the east.

My basic notion is that, under heavy pressure from the Seleucids, Parthians, and Egyptians, the Hasmoneans could only have survived by doing three things. First, they would have had to develop a much higher level of military and administrative organization than most other minor powers, turning them into a fortress kingdom that their larger neighbors would find it difficult to digest. This would let them hit above their weight militarily, though not at the level of Egypt or Persia. Second, they would have had to get serious about using the Jewish diaspora, which was already present in this period across the Mediterranean world, to build a lucrative trading network. This would let them hit above their weight economically. Third, they would have had to get really good at playing the great powers of the Eastern Mediterranean off against each other, turning the Jewish kingdom into one element of a regional balance of power rather than a juicy plum for the plucking. That way, a Persian invasion of Judea would invite Egyptian intervention, and vice versa, creating a deterrent effect. No matter how well-organized or wealthy they might be, the Hasmoneans could never survive an assault by a true empire on their own.

The overall effect, a touch ironically, would be not unlike modern Israel two millennia early: a highly organized, militarily potent, prosperous, and internationally well-connected country that is nevertheless small for its region, threatened by its larger neighbors, reliant for its survival on smart exploitation of those neighbors' divisions, and obliged to spend much of its time trying to control a restless, (proto-)Arabic speaking hinterland that has no great love for its Hebrew overlords. Does that sound like a reasonable place to start an app?

For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

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Of the Quendi
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Postby Of the Quendi » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:56 am

Reverend Norv wrote:I'd like to reserve the Hasmonean Kingdom. To have survived this long, it would need to have subjugated the Nabateans; otherwise, squeezed between Persia and Egypt, two such small kingdoms would quickly have been divided up and conquered. But the marriage of these two Semitic peoples would clearly be uneasy. So I'm interested in an area stretching roughly from the Litani River in the north to the modern Meda'in Salih in the south, and from the Isthmus of Suez in the west to Dumatha in the east.

My basic notion is that, under heavy pressure from the Seleucids, Parthians, and Egyptians, the Hasmoneans could only have survived by doing three things. First, they would have had to develop a much higher level of military and administrative organization than most other minor powers, turning them into a fortress kingdom that their larger neighbors would find it difficult to digest. This would let them hit above their weight militarily, though not at the level of Egypt or Persia. Second, they would have had to get serious about using the Jewish diaspora, which was already present in this period across the Mediterranean world, to build a lucrative trading network. This would let them hit above their weight economically. Third, they would have had to get really good at playing the great powers of the Eastern Mediterranean off against each other, turning the Jewish kingdom into one element of a regional balance of power rather than a juicy plum for the plucking. That way, a Persian invasion of Judea would invite Egyptian intervention, and vice versa, creating a deterrent effect. No matter how well-organized or wealthy they might be, the Hasmoneans could never survive an assault by a true empire on their own.

The overall effect, a touch ironically, would be not unlike modern Israel two millennia early: a highly organized, militarily potent, prosperous, and internationally well-connected country that is nevertheless small for its region, threatened by its larger neighbors, reliant for its survival on smart exploitation of those neighbors' divisions, and obliged to spend much of its time trying to control a restless, (proto-)Arabic speaking hinterland that has no great love for its Hebrew overlords. Does that sound like a reasonable place to start an app?

If this RP is happening (sadly there appear not to be that much interest) I was thinking about RP'ing a strong surviving Seleucid Empire (POD: Antiochus the Great, not defeated by the Romans, manages to unite all of Alexander's empire minus Egypt; his successors loose much of the conquered but cling on to a large Syro-Mesopotamo-Persian empire) and having the Hasmoneans as a buffer state with Ptolemaic Egypt the way you describe it would suit me just fine.
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Reverend Norv
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Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:59 am

Of the Quendi wrote:
Reverend Norv wrote:I'd like to reserve the Hasmonean Kingdom. To have survived this long, it would need to have subjugated the Nabateans; otherwise, squeezed between Persia and Egypt, two such small kingdoms would quickly have been divided up and conquered. But the marriage of these two Semitic peoples would clearly be uneasy. So I'm interested in an area stretching roughly from the Litani River in the north to the modern Meda'in Salih in the south, and from the Isthmus of Suez in the west to Dumatha in the east.

My basic notion is that, under heavy pressure from the Seleucids, Parthians, and Egyptians, the Hasmoneans could only have survived by doing three things. First, they would have had to develop a much higher level of military and administrative organization than most other minor powers, turning them into a fortress kingdom that their larger neighbors would find it difficult to digest. This would let them hit above their weight militarily, though not at the level of Egypt or Persia. Second, they would have had to get serious about using the Jewish diaspora, which was already present in this period across the Mediterranean world, to build a lucrative trading network. This would let them hit above their weight economically. Third, they would have had to get really good at playing the great powers of the Eastern Mediterranean off against each other, turning the Jewish kingdom into one element of a regional balance of power rather than a juicy plum for the plucking. That way, a Persian invasion of Judea would invite Egyptian intervention, and vice versa, creating a deterrent effect. No matter how well-organized or wealthy they might be, the Hasmoneans could never survive an assault by a true empire on their own.

The overall effect, a touch ironically, would be not unlike modern Israel two millennia early: a highly organized, militarily potent, prosperous, and internationally well-connected country that is nevertheless small for its region, threatened by its larger neighbors, reliant for its survival on smart exploitation of those neighbors' divisions, and obliged to spend much of its time trying to control a restless, (proto-)Arabic speaking hinterland that has no great love for its Hebrew overlords. Does that sound like a reasonable place to start an app?

If this RP is happening (sadly there appear not to be that much interest) I was thinking about RP'ing a strong surviving Seleucid Empire (POD: Antiochus the Great, not defeated by the Romans, manages to unite all of Alexander's empire minus Egypt; his successors loose much of the conquered but cling on to a large Syro-Mesopotamo-Persian empire) and having the Hasmoneans as a buffer state with Ptolemaic Egypt the way you describe it would suit me just fine.


Great! I do hope the RP comes off, and I'll assume that the threatening power to the east is the Seleucids, not the Parthians.

For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

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Reverend Norv
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Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:55 am

Well, since Quendi likes the idea, I went ahead and wrote an app. I'm going to hold off on writing the full history until I know a little more about the histories of the great powers in the area, since the Hasmoneans would largely play an opportunistic and reactive role. But here is what I have so far.

Application


NS Name: Norv

Nation/Governorship Name: The Kingdom of Israel; internationally better known as Judea, or simply as the Hasmonean Kingdom.

Flag/Standard:
Image
The battle standard of the Hasmoneans bears the menorah, symbol of their successful revolt against the Seleucids. This is also generally perceived as the symbol of the Hasmonean dynasty. Other symbols include the ram's horn, or shofar, which is associated with the Sanhedrin and the Jewish diaspora, and the Lion of Judah, which is associated with the army. Notably, sculpture, bas-relief, and any depiction of the human face are all forbidden by religious law, which causes most Hasmonean symbols to be fairly abstract.

Claims: The core Hasmonean kingdom of 160 BC stretched from the northern Sinai (specifically Wadi el-Arish) north along the Mediterranean coast to the massif of Mount Meron. Its eastern extent was marked roughly by the Jordan River. The exception to this was Samaria, the rugged hills surrounding Mount Gerizim and Mount Hazor, which was historically independent.

However, over the last century, the Hasmoneans have also conquered Samaria, southern Phoenecia to the Litani River, and the Nabatean Kingdom. Accordingly, their border now extends from the Isthmus of Suez north along the Mediterranean coast to the Litani River, and then east along the Litani until it reaches the slopes of Mount Hermon. There the border leaves the Litani and continues eastward across the fertile hills of southern Syria, until it reaches the Syrian Desert, which marks its northeastern-most extent. The border then curves southeast, skirting the edge of the desert until it reaches Dumatha. South of Dumatha, the border turns southwest, skirting the edge of the Nefud Desert toward the Hejaz until it reaches Meda'in Salih. From here, the border cuts westward to the Red Sea coast, which it follows north and west until it reaches the Isthmus of Suez once again.

It should be understood that while the Litani River, the Suez frontier, Dumatha, and the Syrian hills are heavily fortified (as is the east bank of the Jordan, by way of a fallback line), elsewhere the Hasmonean Kingdom simply dissolves into open desert. In these areas, the local Bedouin are often clients in some vague sense of the Jewish kings, but they overwhelmingly manage their own affairs, and so Hasmonean influence gradually peters out rather than stopping abruptly at a fortified frontier.

Capital City: Jerusalem

Other Major Population Centers: Gaza, Hebron, Sepphoris, Tyre, Petra, Hegra (modern Meda'in Saleh), Dumatha.




Leading Family/Dynasty: The Hasmonean Dynasty, known officially as the Royal and Priestly House of Mattathias.

Imperial Loyalties: Not applicable, since the Hasmoneans are independent. However, maintaining their independence relies on playing off the larger empires of the region against each other - so one could say that the Hasmoneans' loyalty is to making themselves useful to as many different imperial powers as possible.

Family Head: Yehonathan III, known internationally as Jonathan Arabatus (a corruption of the Hebrew sobriquet "ha-arabah," or "of the wilderness"), King and High Priest of Israel, Judea, Samaria, Gilead, Tyre, Nabatea, and Arabia.

Head Personality: Jonathan Arabatus is an unconventional king, mostly because he never expected to rule. The third son of Judas IV Antigonus, he was a very quiet, bookish boy. A brilliant intellect made itself known early, forcing the court to search for a tutor who could keep pace with the lad; they were eventually forced to hire a Pharisee named Benjamin ben Gamaliel, who saw in Jonathan a chance to drive a wedge between the Hasmoneans and the Sadducees. During his teenage years, Jonathan became the royal court's observer at the Great Sanhedrin, guiding the policies of his father and then of his older brother, King Judas V Hyrcanus, through the powerful religious council. He gained a deep appreciation for leadership by debate and consensus rather than by decree. He also showed a very un-Hasmonean respect for the Pharisees and even for the Essenes, whom he visited at Qumran in order to negotiate an end to sectarian violence. While no great warrior in person, he has a well-known fondness for desolate places, and his grueling hunting trips and pilgrimages are abundant evidence of raw physical toughness - and of a willingness to meet the common people on their own level. As king, Jonathan remains a man of few words, but he has a strange, distinctively Hebrew kind of charisma: in his love of mountains and deserts, and in his sober, studious, silent intensity, there is an inescapable sense that this king has somehow been touched by God. There is something of the prophet about Jonathan, a mystical streak that endears him to his subjects. And he has proven an exceedingly effective king: even-tempered and tightly self-controlled, he considers each choice carefully, surrounds himself with highly qualified advisors, works very hard indeed, and then stands behind his decision with the total confidence of a man who knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the One True God marches at his back.

Notable Members (Political):
  • Leah Shlom-Tzion: Queen of Israel, Judea, Samaria, Gilead, Tyre, Nabatea, and Arabia. Wife of Jonathan Arabatus. Daughter of a prominent Jewish Alexandrian trading family, and almost a decade younger than her husband. A champion of arts, culture, and the Hellenistic world, who respects but does not share Jonathan's mystical streak. Famously beautiful, but rumored to be barren.

  • Simon Jannaeus: Grandson of Mattathias II Antigonus, which makes him cousin to Jonathan Arabatus and currently next in line to the throne. A callow adolescent fond of brothels and wine, with a nasty authoritarian streak that has led many disgruntled Sadducees to see him as a useful pawn.

  • Eleazar ben Shmuel: Not a Hasmonean, but the richest man in the kingdom, and the head of a major mercantile family in the brand-new port city of Yamelon. He is a personally pious Pharisee, but is also cosmopolitan, sophisticated, and comfortable in the Hellenic world. Jonathan Arabatus' closest economic advisor, and the crown's most important creditor.

  • Hillel HaZaken: Not a Hasmonean, but nasi (president) of the Sanhedrin, and the leader of the Pharisees. A famous and well-respected rabbi who coined the Golden Rule: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." A close if sometimes ornery friend of the king.

  • Shammai Theophilus: Not a Hasmonean, but av beit din (chief justice) of the Sanhedrin, and leader of the Sadducees. A somewhat feckless old man educated in Carthage, he is known publicly for his rather flexible style of religious interpretation and for his love of fine wines. Privately, he is renowned as a ruthless political operator.

Notable Members (Military Leaders):
  • Zakai Antigonus: Younger brother of Judas IV Antigonus, making him the uncle of Jonathan Arabatus. De jure, he is the commander-in-chief of the Hasmonean armies, and he acquitted himself reasonably in border skirmishes on the Litani frontier - though Bedouin rebels ran rings around him, and he is prone to arrogance and rash decisions. In practice, therefore, his current role is largely ceremonial.

  • Onias ben Boethus: Not a Hasmonean, but the true de facto leader of the kingdom's armies. The half-Hebrew, half-Nabatean son of a shepherd, he rose by sheer talent and ruthlessness to the notice of Judas Hyrcanus, who gave him the chance to command. Onias distinguished himself as a brilliant tactician in the Nabatean uprising of 7 BC, and he has a close working relationship with Jonathan Arabatus: while the king is responsible for professionalizing military conscription, training, and logistics, Onias is his most trusted battlefield leader.

  • Phasael of Cyrene: Not a Hasmonean, but the kingdom's admiral. Born into a prominent Phoenician merchant family, he became a pirate. When the small Hasmonean navy finally managed to capture him, he offered the Jews his services, which they accepted. In the decade since, he has turned the Hasmonean fleet into a highly disciplined commerce-raiding force: while too small to fight pitched battles, it can slip through enemy patrols and wreak havoc on hostile shipping, with devastating economic consequences.

  • Loukas ben Meshullam: Not a Hasmonean, but the kingdom's High Engineer - a key position in the Hasmonean military responsible for the construction, maintenance, and defense of the kingdom's monumental fortifications. A gifted mathematician trained in Carthage and Athens, he was born into a family of Pharisees that saw education as a divine responsibility. So far, he is most famous for designing a system of small canals to link the fortresses of the Suez frontier, which act simultaneously as arteries of transportation between the fortresses and as a barrier to enemy armies seeking to bypass them.

Primary Dynastic Values: What exactly the Hasmoneans stand for is disputed within the dynasty. Initially the most militant of anti-Hellenists, in later years they aligned themselves with the broadly pro-Hellenic Sadducees in order to contain the power of the Pharisees. Jonathan himself is generally felt to be sympathetic to the Pharisees, but he is married to a Hellenistic Jew from Alexandria. So the role of the Hasmoneans in the culture-wars of Jewish society has always been murky, and it remains so. What is clear is that Hasmoneans have always considered themselves to be more than kings: they are High Priests, with a special sacramental connection to the singular omnipotence of Shaddai. They feel that they have a sacred mission, even if they can't always agree on exactly what that mission is. It is that sense of holy calling that defines the dynasty: the Hasmoneans' first duty is not to their kingdom or to their subjects, but to God, and they are capable both of unparalleled daring and of pure lunacy so long as they truly believe that they are doing His will.

Dynastic Goals: In a word, survival. The Hasmoneans are hemmed in to the west by Egypt and to the east by the Seleucids. Both are powers against which the Jewish kingdom can achieve at best a stalemate. To the south, most of Arabia is desert and Bedouins. So the Hasmoneans have little room for expansion, and even their control of their current territory is rendered shaky by half a million restive Nabataeans, Arabs, and Phoenicians. Therefore, their goal is to maintain a sufficiently high level of wealth and military power to deter foreign aggression, while fostering warm enough relations with the major Mediterranean powers to ensure that any foreign invasion would also elicit foreign intervention. Considering the extreme defensive orientation of their army, the Hasmoneans know that their greatest influence is commercial (thanks to the extensive Jewish trading diaspora) and religious - for true hard-line monotheism is a quietly revolutionary idea with deep attraction to many across the Mediterranean world, and still more sweeping religious innovation seems likely to spring from the catalytic conflict between Sadducees, Pharisees, and Essenes.

Dynasty Culture: Given their history, everyone would first and foremost agree that the Hasmoneans are not Greek (despite the fact that Queen Leah speaks Greek as her first language). Beyond this, the Hasmoneans exist at the inner circle of a kind of concentric system of cultures. They are Jews - but Jews live all over the Mediterranean world, and speak a vast variety of languages; they are united by a shared religion, but not exactly a shared culture. Moreover, even many Nabateans consider themselves to be Jews in some sense, thanks to their syncretic religious system. The Hasmoneans are also Israelites: they belong to a Semitic culture rooted in the southern Levant, but heavily influenced by the Hellenistic world. Exactly how much Hellenistic influence is permissible remains bitterly contested. Finally, the Hasmoneans are Hebrews: unlike most Israelites, they speak Hebrew rather than Aramaic as their first language, because they are descended from a priestly family in the Tribe of Levi. They thus exist at a nexus of various cultures - religious, ethnic, and linguistic/sacerdotal - that defines their identity.




Population: 1.4 million (roughly one-third the estimated population of Greater Syria in 14 CE in our timeline).

Percentage of Population of Dynastic Culture: About 80 percent of the population considers itself Jewish, though many of these are Samaritans and Nabatean syncretists whom orthodox Jews regard as heretics. 65 percent of the population are Israelites in the traditional sense: orthodox Jews who speak either Hebrew or Aramaic as their mother tongue. These are the Hasmoneans' traditional power base.

Culture Group: A distinctively literate and monotheistic branch of the larger Semitic culture group, now more heavily Hellenized than anyone would readily admit.

Other Major Cultures: Phoenician, Nabatean, Bedouin.




Military Size: A standing force of 28,500, with the capacity in an emergency to conscript about 50,000 additional trained veterans.

  • Melee Infantry: 15,000 theurokitai, standing: the primary battlefield force of the kingdom. No mercenaries.

  • Missile Infantry: 5,000 archers (standing); 2,500 slingers (standing; also an elite light-infantry and reconnaissance force); 2,500 artillery troops (standing; responsible for using the advanced catapults and ballistae that arm Hasmonean fortifications, and for maintaining the fortifications themselves. They report to the High Engineer, not the army commanders.) No mercenaries.

  • Cavalry: 500 elite Temple Guard (standing). 1,000 Nabatean light cavalry, many camel-mounted (standing, but generally regarded as auxilliaries). 1,750 Bedouin light cavalry (mercenaries, many camel-mounted).

  • Naval: 40 liburnians, intended for commerce raiding; 15 quinquiremes, intended primarily to keep the smaller ships supplied at sea.

Specialized/Unique Troops: The core of the Hasmonean field army is the thorakitai, well-trained heavy infantry armed with large oval shields, relatively short (2-meter) thrusting spears, short stabbing swords, and mail armor. The unique virtue of these soldiers lies in their discipline and their mobility: they can march twenty-five miles in a day in full kit, and on the battlefield they are drilled to cycle by ranks so that no one soldier fights for more than fifteen minutes. Crucially, Hasmonean officers are largely career professionals, and they are trained to take the initiative in redeploying to outflank enemy forces. This gives Hasmonean troops the flexibility to counter conventional Hellenistic phalanxes. On the battlefield, the thorakitai are supported by a corps of unarmored slingers, who also serve as scouts and raiders; these light troops are regarded as the spiritual successors of the original Maccabean rebels, and they are highly respected. Hasmonean cavalry, on the other hand, is made up mostly of Bedouin mercenaries, who are well-suited for desert raiding and flanking attacks but cannot suffer significant losses without fleeing the field. The elite of the whole army is the Temple Guard, a force of five hundred heavy cavalry armed with lances who represent yet another copy of Alexander's Companion Cavalry.

Most other Hasmonean troops are trained to defend fortified positions rather than to fight pitched battles. Hasmonean archers, for example, are widely thought to be among the finest outside Crete, and their composite bows can lay down withering rapid fire from the walls of Israelite border fortresses. In addition to their battlefield role, thorakitai are specially trained to fight within fortifications, to repel siege towers and breach-assaults. And the Hasmonean army is extremely unusual in possessing an entire separate artillery and engineering arm, reporting to the kingdom's High Engineer, that is dedicated to maintaining fortifications and manning the massive ballistae and catapults that defend them. This means that Hasmonean fortresses are designed with mathematical precision and endowed with formidable firepower - and when under siege, they have a frustrating tendency to self-repair, throwing up new walls to undo any damage to their defenses.

Military Philosophy: The Hasmonean military is designed for one overriding purpose: to win a defensive war against an enemy with massive numerical superiority. It has three basic strategies by which to do this: divide the enemy's forces to destroy any outlying elements, force whatever core force remains into a grueling and prolonged siege of well-prepared fortifications, and then destroy the enemy's economy by piracy and commerce raiding until he has no choice but to withdraw. The Hasmonean army makes relatively little use of mercenaries, because any defection in the midst of a defensive war could be fatal: Jewish troops, on the other hand, can usually be relied upon to stand and die in defense of their God.

The first step of Hasmonean strategy is to divide the enemy's forces so that they can be engaged piecemeal. This is why the ability of the thorakitai to out-march any enemy is crucial: it allows the Hasmoneans to choose the time and place of battle, bringing their whole field army to bear against a vulnerable column of enemy troops. Once battle is joined, the professionalism and flexibility of the thorakitai and their slingers, and the ability of competent career officers to take initiative and adapt on the fly, will hopefully bring victory against anything from a Macedonian phalanx to a charge of war elephants.

The second Hasmonean strategy is to force the enemy into attacking heavily fortified positions. The Kingdom of Israel is likely the world's leader in the theory and technology of fortification. Hasmonean forts are designed with mathematical rigor, situated on favorable terrain, equipped with powerful siege artillery, constructed using the latest techniques, and supported by networks of walls, roads, and even canals for resupply. Any invader will have to seize these forts or risk leaving dangerous Hasmonean garrisons in his rear, and to capture such a fort will take months (perhaps years), and cost the attacker far more troops than the defender. By forcing the enemy into a war of attrition on those terms, the Hasmoneans can neutralize the numerical advantage of the foe.

The final Hasmonean strategy is to wreak havoc on the enemy's economy, making the war financially unsustainable. The Jewish kingdom has two weapons by which to do this. The first is the navy: built around small, fast liburnians rather than large and heavy warships, the Hasmonean navy cannot win pitched battles - but it is ideally suited to evade patrols, slip past blockades, and ravage enemy shipping. Bedouin mercenary camel cavalry serve a similar purpose on land: while of limited use on the battlefield, they can move rapidly across terrain inaccessible to most other troops, and emerge in the enemy's rear to raid his supply trains, burn his crops, and terrorize his villages. By such measures, the Hasmoneans hope to cripple the economy of any prospective invader until war becomes intolerably expensive and he is obliged to withdraw.

Specialization/Advantages: Sophisticated conscription system; highly disciplined heavy infantry capable of marching great distances; excellent archers (though they are mostly untrained in field maneuvers); generally high - some would say fanatical - morale; and the best corps of fortifications engineers and artillery experts in the world, responsible for maintaining the best fortification system in the world.




Brief Description of Technology: As a small country surrounded by more powerful neighbors, the Hasmonean kingdom relies heavily upon technological sophistication to remain militarily viable, economically prosperous, and therefore independent. Jewish culture places a high value on education, and the Pharisees have made a determined effort to make basic education - and especially literacy - widely available. The Hasmoneans also send many of their most promising subjects to study in Greece and Carthage. The recently purpose-built city of Yamelon even includes a Lyceum on the Athenian model, with well-respected schools of medicine, mathematics, and engineering. But the kingdom's primary area of expertise, and the one in which it commands global respect, is construction. All major construction projects are handled by a corps of salaried career professionals who report to the High Engineer, which creates a continuity of institutional memory that preserves Hasmonean skill in building.

Construction serves two purposes: it allows the kingdom's frontiers to be defended, and it allows the kingdom's interior to be irrigated. The former requirement is met by the Hasmoneans' remarkable line of fortresses. Drawing both on Greek mathematics and on Nabatean techniques of excavation (see Petra), the Jewish kingdom has developed a distinctive style of fortification. Citadels are located on high ground, preferably surrounded by cliffs or canyons. Sometimes they are constructed from concrete faced with massive slabs of hewed stone. But wherever possible, fortresses are carved directly into the living rock of peaks or cliffs: this allows their walls to be far thicker and more solid than any masonry. Hasmonean fortresses are designed with concentric levels of defenses, usually increasing in strength as one approaches a final redoubt. Each level is designed essentially as a platform for missile weapons: towers and bastions provide fortified positions for archers, ballistae, and catapults, from which they can enfilade any troops who try to approach the wall itself. And each fortress is designed as one link in a chain, and connected to neighboring citadels by roads and - more recently - even canals, so that one must besiege the whole line of forts in order to prevent them from resupplying and relieving each other.

Construction is also essential for allowing an essentially water-poor country to make the most of its limited resources. For more than seventy years, the Hasmoneans have labored to construct a system of dams, reservoirs, canals, and aqueducts to bring water from the Jordan River and the Sea of Galilee hundreds of miles to locations as distant as Gaza, Jerusalem, and even Petra. This experience has reinforced the Hasmonean expertise gained from building fortresses, and it has made the Jewish kingdom expert in many fields: the use of concrete and of ceramic piping; the development of irrigation engines like reverse siphons, screws and water mills; techniques of large-scale excavation and land removal; and the sophisticated mathematics necessary to build a functioning aqueduct that maintains gravitational pressure over hundreds of miles. The end result of their experiences with fortresses and irrigation systems is that the Hasmoneans have developed a remarkable sophistication in building gigantic structures. The ultimate proof of this sophistication is the Temple in Jerusalem: built on an artificial mountain 1600 feet wide by 900 feet broad by 9 stories high, with walls sixteen feet thick enclosing a series of marble courts and offices and treasuries, it is at one and the same time the center of administration for the Hasmonean kingdom and one of the largest places of worship in the world.

Brief Description of Culture/Society: At first glance, Hasmonean society seems defined by its divisions. The deepest of these are religious. The Phoenecian minority in the north, the Nabateans of the desert, and the Samaritans of Mount Gerizim are all regarded as unbelievers by the orthodox Jewish majority, whose strict monotheistic faith leaves no room for other gods or for even other traditions of monotheism, like Samaritanism. But the Jews themselves are deeply divided along multiple axes as well. The Hellenized Jews of the coast have close contacts with diaspora communities from Alexandria to Carthage: they are a mercantile class, prosperous and cosmopolitan, inclined to mix Greek philosophy with their ancient monotheism. The agrarian Jews of the interior, on the other hand, are a sterner and more puritanical breed: given to mysticism and messianism, contemptuous of commerce and inclined to associate Greek culture with the cosmic Adversary.

These divisions, in turn, have given rise to multiple religious sects - which double as political factions. The Sadducees believe that only the written Torah is binding; this increases the influence of the Levitical priestly caste from which most Sadducees come, and it also allows for greater openness to Hellenistic culture. They are thus, oddly, both the most conservative and the most cosmopolitan faction, and they have historically been associated with the upper classes and the crown. The Pharisees, on the other hand, believe that Jewish oral tradition is just as binding as the Torah. This view reduces the power of the priests and increases the influence of the religious scholars, but it also imposes a more stringent religious law that prohibits participation in many aspects of Hellenistic culture. The Pharisees have historically opposed Hasmonean rule on the grounds that no man can be both king and high priest, but they are popular among somewhat prosperous farmers, minor merchants, and especially engineers and scholars - anyone who has the resources to study the Scriptures but not to travel outside Israel. Finally, the Essenes are a radical communitarian and pacifist sect, who eschew private property, keep no slaves, often swear vows of chastity, and do not engage in trade. They are mystical, millenarian, and messianic, and believe that the world will soon end. They are broadly apolitical, since they see the material world as essentially worthless, and are few in number but an influential force among the rural poor.

Despite these many divisions, there is a shared Hebrew-Israelite culture and identity that unites the kingdom's Jewish majority. This culture derives ultimately from religion: the Jews know that they are the world's only Chosen People, and so despite all their squabbling they share a sacred destiny. The miraculous proof of that destiny is their simple survival: after a century of exile and innumerable foreign invasions and occupations, they are back on the Promised Land as a free and independent nation. A distinctive Jewish identity has been forged in the crucible of that history: iron-tough and mule-stubborn, pious and hard-working, with a deep love for education and a mystical, prophetic streak that makes every dream seem achievable. In defense of that identity, the Israelites are willing to set aside their differences and work together to build great fortresses, provide soldiers for a large standing army, and ensure that the nightmare of foreign occupation and exile never again returns. It is this willingness that enables Hasmonean society's highly organized institutions - conscription, corvee labor, religious taxation, widespread education - to function as well as they do.

Brief Description of Economy: The two pillars of the Hasmonean economy are agriculture and trade: the former keeps the kingdom fed, and the latter keeps it wealthy. Since the kingdom lacks meaningful mineral wealth of its own - it has decent reserves of copper and iron, but no gold or silver to speak of - mining is a relatively minor part of the economy, and the largest customer of mining magnates is usually the Hasmonean army itself.

The southern Levant - rocky, water-poor, prone to desertification - is unpromising ground for productive agriculture. But the Hasmoneans' heavy investment in irrigation has nevertheless turned their kingdom into a net exporter of food. In the hill country, small farmers grow barley, onions, and olive trees, and they herd sheep and goats. In the fertile valleys, major estates belonging to prominent merchants, priests, and members of the royal family replace the small farms. Here, wheat replaces barley, figs and dates supplement olives, vineyards proliferate, and cattle replace sheep. These large farms are worked mostly by laborers who are paid in kind out of the harvest; agricultural slaves are rare in Israel, since Jewish law requires slaves to be freed after seven years, making them a bad investment on any scale larger than domestic service. Nevertheless, these large estates produce enough grain, wine, dried fruit, and olive oil to allow for export to less well-irrigated areas of Asia Minor and Syria. Dried fish from the Sea of Galilee and the Mediterranean coast is also a staple of domestic consumption, with enough left over for export.

But the true wealth of the Hasmonean kingdom comes from trade. Because it does not produce any really lucrative commodities, the kingdom instead exploits two major advantages: the pan-Mediterranean Jewish commercial diaspora, and its own geostrategic position. The diaspora is crucial because it offers Jewish merchants an unusually strong financial framework for their business: pooled investment in warehouses and other infrastructure, low-interest loans offered to co-religionists, and constant accurate information on prices and trading conditions at markets across the Mediterranean. This allows Jewish merchants to out-compete most other traders, and a portion of their profits flows back to families and business partners in Israel - and (as a religious tax applied to all Jews everywhere) to the Temple treasury in Jerusalem. Moreover, Israel lies at the junction of three major trade nodes: the Mediterranean Sea, the Red Sea, and the overland caravan route via Dumatha to Mesopotamia, Persia, and India. Spanish tin, Indian spices, and Ethiopian ivory all share space in the bazaars of Gaza, where the Hasmoneans can tax them and where Jewish merchants can use their network of diasporic connections to decide what to buy and where to ship it for maximum profit. The result is a thriving mercantile economy that benefits both the Hasmoneans and the region as a whole; the risk of disrupting such a lucrative trade is yet another valuable shield against invasion.

Notable History: WIP - I want to see what Quendi comes up with for the Seleucids, and then I'll build off that history. The only fixed points are a successful revolt against the Seleucids in about 160 BC (this might have been the first step in the loss of Antiochus' outlying conquests), full independence by about 120 BC, and the conquest of the Nabateans and Tyre (modern-day Sinai, Jordan, far-southern Syria, and southern Lebanon) by about 40 BC. Everything else depends on what the histories of the region's great powers look like.

RP Sample: I believe you know me.




Jezebel
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

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Stjernland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Jun 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Stjernland » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:08 am

Rev, your app is so gorgeous. #Goals
Want to help build a world? Like to roleplay? Come to Werenth and claim your slice of paradise!

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Of the Quendi
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14730
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Anarchy

Postby Of the Quendi » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:46 pm

Reverend Norv wrote:-snip-

Good lord, now I feel rather embarrassed of having labored on a Seleucid app for two days and having very little to show for it. Jesus that is some app you made there. Very impressed.

Anyway since you mention wanting to hold of on your history until you know your neighbors history I should say that I am currently writing my Seleucid history not as a factual modern historiography but in the form of a chronicle by a pro-Seleucid chronicler writing about the Seleucid history in the year 0. As a result the history should be taken not as indisputable truth narrated by an omniscient narrator but rather as a biased account by a historian with limited knowledge, specific interest and an agenda. More fun for me, and that helps me write two centuries of fictional Seleucid history. As a result my history would not necessarily have to align a hundred percent with anyone else's.
Nation RP name
Arda i Eruhíni (short form)
Alcarinqua ar Meneldëa Arda i Eruhíni i sé Amanaranyë ar Aramanaranyë (long form)

1st runner-up of Best High Fantasy RPer of 2014

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EastTurkey55
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Posts: 62
Founded: Aug 05, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby EastTurkey55 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:48 pm

Tag.

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Reverend Norv
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1947
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:22 pm

Of the Quendi wrote:
Reverend Norv wrote:-snip-

Good lord, now I feel rather embarrassed of having labored on a Seleucid app for two days and having very little to show for it. Jesus that is some app you made there. Very impressed.

Anyway since you mention wanting to hold of on your history until you know your neighbors history I should say that I am currently writing my Seleucid history not as a factual modern historiography but in the form of a chronicle by a pro-Seleucid chronicler writing about the Seleucid history in the year 0. As a result the history should be taken not as indisputable truth narrated by an omniscient narrator but rather as a biased account by a historian with limited knowledge, specific interest and an agenda. More fun for me, and that helps me write two centuries of fictional Seleucid history. As a result my history would not necessarily have to align a hundred percent with anyone else's.


No problem. It'll give me the outlines that I need to work with, but also the freedom to fill in the gaps. I may even copy the chronicle-style format to do my own history, if it's okay with you.
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647


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