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The God in Communism: Karl Marx religious?

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Uinted Communist of Africa
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The God in Communism: Karl Marx religious?

Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:00 pm

Image

Now this might sound like complete heresy but I personally think that Marx was extremely religious at one point and something happened to him which cause him to hate god (maybe a family death?) and when he published his manifesto he made sure some of it was dedicated to destroying god. I'm not saying his whole purpose of the manifesto was to destroy god....I'm just saying that he knew his works would be respected so why not push a few hidden agendas under it? why else would Marx's works look so similar to Christianity? ....it just all adds up.

What do you guys think?
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Bielarus i Ukraina
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Postby Bielarus i Ukraina » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:07 pm

OOC:
Religious or not, his teachings were disastrous for Europe and the world.

IC:
Having been a communist nation as recently as 1945, we can say we did not enjoy it one bit. Following our liberation by Det hellige nordiske rike, all references to communism and the USSR were banned. So whether K. M. believed in any god is a moot point because it is illegal to say or write his name in modern Belarus and Ukraine.
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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Bielarus i Ukraina wrote:OOC:
Religious or not, his teachings were disastrous for Europe and the world.

IC:
Having been a communist nation as recently as 1945, we can say we did not enjoy it one bit. Following our liberation by Det hellige nordiske rike, all references to communism and the USSR were banned. So whether K. M. believed in any god is a moot point because it is illegal to say or write his name in modern Belarus and Ukraine.

Not to Russia.... :p
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Postby Destructive Government Economic System » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Shouldn't this be in a discussion forum?

EDIT: Now it is.
Last edited by Destructive Government Economic System on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:58 pm

I think your talking nonsense OP.

First of all, Marx was Jewish, so I'm not sure why you would think "Marx's works look so similar to Christianity." But that's actually a fairly minor point compared to the general problem that you clearly haven't understood Marx's critique of religion at all.

Marx's issue with religion isn't that it is untrue (although he probably thought so), it's that it causes people to ignore injustice because they think that some heavenly power will one day even it out. When Marx calls religion an opiate, he is saying that religion acts as a painkiller that allows people to ignore serious chronic conditions. And the only way to get them to seek out the treatment they need is to remove the painkiller.

To quote Marx:
"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower."
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Postby Donut section » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:31 pm

His work was close to Christianity?

Come on man, why so mean to Christians?
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:37 pm

First of all, Atheism isn't about "hating god'. Second, Marx wrote absolutely nothing about trying to destroy the christian god, the full quote is as follows;
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

It should be noted that this usage of Opium is in the form of the painkiller, which we now refer to as Opiates. He's not saying its a bad thing, merely that it is a coping mechanism.
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Postby Aethrys » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:38 pm

He was expressing his views on society, and his views included the myriad ways religions have historically been used as a means of controlling populations and keeping them in line. That's about it. No real secret hidden agenda or whatnot.
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Postby Gim » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:45 pm

Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:(Image)

Now this might sound like complete heresy but I personally think that Marx was extremely religious at one point and something happened to him which cause him to hate god (maybe a family death?) and when he published his manifesto he made sure some of it was dedicated to destroying god. I'm not saying his whole purpose of the manifesto was to destroy god....I'm just saying that he knew his works would be respected so why not push a few hidden agendas under it? why else would Marx's works look so similar to Christianity? ....it just all adds up.

What do you guys think?


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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:49 pm

I mean, I imagine most people were at least raised religous those days, so yeah
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Postby Gim » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:51 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I mean, I imagine most people were at least raised religous those days, so yeah

However, did that motivate him to write about Communism? That is the question.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:53 pm

Gim wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I mean, I imagine most people were at least raised religous those days, so yeah

However, did that motivate him to write about Communism? That is the question.

I mean, he prolly had a religous education, yeah? Not saying he wrote this shit just to get back at god, but It'd make sense he'd have picked up certain morals, and those morals were taking to their logical extreme
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Gim
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Postby Gim » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:55 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Gim wrote:However, did that motivate him to write about Communism? That is the question.

I mean, he prolly had a religous education, yeah? Not saying he wrote this shit just to get back at god, but It'd make sense he'd have picked up certain morals, and those morals were taking to their logical extreme


I see.
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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:18 pm

Gim wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I mean, I imagine most people were at least raised religous those days, so yeah

However, did that motivate him to write about Communism? That is the question.

well seeing as many of the main points of communism align with Christianity.....such as painting rich people as evil.....there might be a correlation
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[_★_] copy and paste. Join the revolution!!!!
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Postby Hakons » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:30 pm

Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:
Gim wrote:However, did that motivate him to write about Communism? That is the question.

well seeing as many of the main points of communism align with Christianity.....such as painting rich people as evil.....there might be a correlation


Christians don't condemn the wealthy like socialists do. The wealthy have an obligation to help the poor, but simply being wealthy doesn't make you evil. Christianity condemns sins, like greed, not sinners, like the wealthy.
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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:31 pm

Hakons wrote:
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:well seeing as many of the main points of communism align with Christianity.....such as painting rich people as evil.....there might be a correlation


Christians don't condemn the wealthy like socialists do. The wealthy have an obligation to help the poor, but simply being wealthy doesn't make you evil. Christianity condemns sins, like greed, not sinners, like the wealthy.

"it is easier for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle than to get in heaven"
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[_★_] copy and paste. Join the revolution!!!!
( -_- ) My nation does support my political views...deal with it.

"We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they will crush us." - J. V. Stalin, 1931

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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:33 pm

Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:
Gim wrote:However, did that motivate him to write about Communism? That is the question.

well seeing as many of the main points of communism align with Christianity.....such as painting rich people as evil.....there might be a correlation

Again, Marx was Jewish.

And really, it's not a profound point that they both dislike rich people. A lot of people dislike rich people.
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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:35 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:well seeing as many of the main points of communism align with Christianity.....such as painting rich people as evil.....there might be a correlation

Again, Marx was Jewish.

And really, it's not a profound point that they both dislike rich people. A lot of people dislike rich people.

Christianity also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth too.....is that supposedly coincidence? 8)
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[_★_] copy and paste. Join the revolution!!!!
( -_- ) My nation does support my political views...deal with it.

"We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they will crush us." - J. V. Stalin, 1931

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:36 pm

Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Again, Marx was Jewish.

And really, it's not a profound point that they both dislike rich people. A lot of people dislike rich people.

Christianity also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth too.....is that supposedly coincidence? 8)

Again, Marx was Jewish.

And the Chinese philosopher Mengzi also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth..... coincidence?
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Postby Genivaria » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:37 pm

I can easily see many Marxist ideas being co-opted by religion but this 'secret agenda to destroy Christianity/god' is quackery.
I'm a liberal/socialist/social democrat/syndicalist/corporatist/I don't even know anymore.

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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:Christianity also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth too.....is that supposedly coincidence? 8)

Again, Marx was Jewish.

And the Chinese philosopher Mengzi also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth..... coincidence?

Touché.....then take a look at collectivism which is hinted through out the bible and in marxs
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[_★_] copy and paste. Join the revolution!!!!
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"We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they will crush us." - J. V. Stalin, 1931

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Postby Genivaria » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:39 pm

Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Again, Marx was Jewish.

And the Chinese philosopher Mengzi also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth..... coincidence?

Touché.....then take a look at collectivism which is hinted through out the bible and in marxs

Please stop.
I'm a liberal/socialist/social democrat/syndicalist/corporatist/I don't even know anymore.

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I don't give a damn about your committee and its opinions of my work! Have you forgotten sir, we were at war? A fight with an alien race for the very survival of our species. I feel I must remind you that it is an undeniable, and may I say a fundamental quality of man, that when faced with extinction, every alternative is preferable.

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Postby Blorbs » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:40 pm

He was likely religious at some point but realized it was almost like he was being given opiates to dumb himself down and become complacent, which may have been where the opiates of the masses idea first originated.
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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:42 pm

Genivaria wrote:I can easily see many Marxist ideas being co-opted by religion but this 'secret agenda to destroy Christianity/god' is quackery.

you want to explain the reason you call it "quackery" or should I just move on?
Last edited by Uinted Communist of Africa on Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[_★_] copy and paste. Join the revolution!!!!
( -_- ) My nation does support my political views...deal with it.

"We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they will crush us." - J. V. Stalin, 1931

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Again, Marx was Jewish.

And the Chinese philosopher Mengzi also mentions a lot of sharing the wealth..... coincidence?

Touché.....then take a look at collectivism which is hinted through out the bible and in marxs

Again, Marx was Jewish.

And Christian collectivism is really more a product of the Monastic movement, which isn't really in the Bible.


Look: I could make a equally compelling argument that Marxism is inspired by Genghis Khan. Who, after all, adopted the lower orders of society in other tribes into his own tribe, seized the wealth of his rich adversaries, and distributed it among his followers based on merit, and didn't particularly care much about religion.

But Marx didn't borrow from Temujin, the similarities are just the result of a convergent evolution of ideas, driven by what is effective at motivating the masses. Your reading too much into it.
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