Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Gallia-]

it's his perennially discussed power armor he wrote about on the neopets forum or something

[Amidia-]

it's his perennially discussed power armor he wrote about on the neopets forum or something

ahhhh.

[Mitheldalond]

How hard would it be to design an anti-tank weapon that could be built by resistance groups from commercial products? Something like the Luty SMG or even the 3D printable FGC-9, but for killing armored vehicles; probably not actual tanks, but like BMPs and LAVs.

The idea would be to ship blueprints and probably some examples and specific tools along with actual anti-tank weapons to hopefully create something of a self-sufficient insurgency. Yes there's IEDs, but I'm mostly wondering if something like this could be done, and if it would be effective.

I figure you could probably rig something up using commercial explosives or something like tannerite, stick a model rocket engine to the back of it, and use some PVC or copper pipe as a launcher, but how effective would it be? How precise do you actually have to be to make a functional shaped-charge/HEAT warhead? And would commercial explosives actually be powerful enough to penetrate even light armored vehicles?

[Gallia-]

Step 1) Find big bullet
Step 2) Make big gun
Step 3) ???
Step 4) Kill tankii

There are dozens of examples of improvised anti-armor weapons in Syria, Palestine, and Irak. The easiest is taking a large fuel drum, a shallow copper dish, and packing the back of the latter with an explosive of any type.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Step 1) Find big bullet
Step 2) Make big gun
Step 3) ???
Step 4) Kill tankii

started thinking of this smh

[Gallia-]

Jamal's Jihadi Kustomz has made a lot of improvised anti-tank rockets, EFP mines, and 23mm anti-tank cannons for mounting on trucks is what I mean.

Lots of Americans (entire dozens!) make .50 BMG and 20x102mm rifles in their garages.

Making guns isn't hard or anything. It'll just be heavy, like M2HB, unless you're an actual engineer who can work on the margins, then you get CIS .50MG.

[Verocusa]

I have a question, my nation is an island nation without a whole lot of resources, even good steel is hard to come by without imports, making home weapons manufacturing expensive at the best of times, meaning that a proper assault rifle or self loading rifle of real modern design is expensive to make, and the nation doesn’t have the industrial capacity to do so on a large scale.

What would be a simpler design that would still be reasonably competent in a 1950s and 1960s setting?

[Spirit of Hope]

I have a question, my nation is an island nation without a whole lot of resources, even good steel is hard to come by without imports, making home weapons manufacturing expensive at the best of times, meaning that a proper assault rifle or self loading rifle of real modern design is expensive to make, and the nation doesn’t have the industrial capacity to do so on a large scale.

What would be a simpler design that would still be reasonably competent in a 1950s and 1960s setting?

Essentially any of the major rifles of the times would likely serve you well. In the real world the biggest determination of what you were using was political, especially if you are purchasing/receiving aid. The AKM was the Eastern Block, FN FAL and G3 were West, and the M14 was the US. Towards the end of this period you would see the emergence of the M16, but the AR10 and AR15 would have both been options earlier.

None of these would be prohibitive to manufacture, from a capabilities stand point it would probably go AKM, AR10/AR15, FN FAL, G3, M14 but the difference wouldn't be huge.

[Gallia-]

I have a question, my nation is an island nation without a whole lot of resources, even good steel is hard to come by without imports, making home weapons manufacturing expensive at the best of times, meaning that a proper assault rifle or self loading rifle of real modern design is expensive to make, and the nation doesn’t have the industrial capacity to do so on a large scale.

What would be a simpler design that would still be reasonably competent in a 1950s and 1960s setting?

Buying one from someone who can make them cheaply.

[Verocusa]

I have a question, my nation is an island nation without a whole lot of resources, even good steel is hard to come by without imports, making home weapons manufacturing expensive at the best of times, meaning that a proper assault rifle or self loading rifle of real modern design is expensive to make, and the nation doesn’t have the industrial capacity to do so on a large scale.

What would be a simpler design that would still be reasonably competent in a 1950s and 1960s setting?

Essentially any of the major rifles of the times would likely serve you well. In the real world the biggest determination of what you were using was political, especially if you are purchasing/receiving aid. The AKM was the Eastern Block, FN FAL and G3 were West, and the M14 was the US. Towards the end of this period you would see the emergence of the M16, but the AR10 and AR15 would have both been options earlier.

None of these would be prohibitive to manufacture, from a capabilities stand point it would probably go AKM, AR10/AR15, FN FAL, G3, M14 but the difference wouldn't be huge.

The problem is that my nation has no real source of good steel, any decent steel has to be imported. (Political situation in this context is a bit different than the real Cold War, most major nations are monarchy’s and connections mean a lot). There is some industry in the form of ship breaking but it is still in development.

For reference this is the current standard rifle of the Guard based directly on the Winchester 1907

[Spirit of Hope]

Essentially any of the major rifles of the times would likely serve you well. In the real world the biggest determination of what you were using was political, especially if you are purchasing/receiving aid. The AKM was the Eastern Block, FN FAL and G3 were West, and the M14 was the US. Towards the end of this period you would see the emergence of the M16, but the AR10 and AR15 would have both been options earlier.

None of these would be prohibitive to manufacture, from a capabilities stand point it would probably go AKM, AR10/AR15, FN FAL, G3, M14 but the difference wouldn't be huge.

The problem is that my nation has no real source of good steel, any decent steel has to be imported. (Political situation in this context is a bit different than the real Cold War, most major nations are monarchy’s and connections mean a lot). There is some industry in the form of ship breaking but it is still in development.

Small arms manufacturing isn't a huge deal, as noted previously in this thread, small arms can be rather easily manufactured by people with some basic machine tools, and the raw imports aren't that expensive, for small arms you don't even need good steal for most of the design.

Or you can just buy frome someone else.

[Gallia-]

Essentially any of the major rifles of the times would likely serve you well. In the real world the biggest determination of what you were using was political, especially if you are purchasing/receiving aid. The AKM was the Eastern Block, FN FAL and G3 were West, and the M14 was the US. Towards the end of this period you would see the emergence of the M16, but the AR10 and AR15 would have both been options earlier.

None of these would be prohibitive to manufacture, from a capabilities stand point it would probably go AKM, AR10/AR15, FN FAL, G3, M14 but the difference wouldn't be huge.

The problem is that my nation has no real source of good steel, any decent steel has to be imported.

Then develop a steel refining industry like Japan did?

[Verocusa]

The problem is that my nation has no real source of good steel, any decent steel has to be imported.

Then develop a steel refining industry like Japan did?

I mean that as I’m it doesn’t have the iron necessary.

But what do you think of the current choice, would I need to be in a hurry to replace it (in the post above)

[Gallia-]

Then develop a steel refining industry like Japan did?

I mean that as I’m it doesn’t have the iron necessary.

What? Japan imports all its iron ore from Australia and China lol. It's the second largest importer of iron ore because it has a world class refining industry and everyone sends their iron to Japan to be refined. Duh.

They developed a powerful refining industry precisely because they don't have iron ore, obviously.

[Verocusa]

I mean that as I’m it doesn’t have the iron necessary.

What? Japan imports all its iron ore from Australia and China lol. It's the second largest importer of iron ore because it has a world class refining industry and everyone sends their iron to Japan to be refined. Duh.

They developed a powerful refining industry precisely because they don't have iron ore, obviously.

Yeah that’s gonna take time, but there is a self loading rifle already in the guards use

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=verocusa/detail=factbook/id=1774642

So if that’s my best option would what I’m using be good enough until then

[New Cheshire]

Do New Zealand farmers’ sons make good infantrymen?


This NS nation is liberal so doesn’t want conscription.

[Gallia-]

What? Japan imports all its iron ore from Australia and China lol. It's the second largest importer of iron ore because it has a world class refining industry and everyone sends their iron to Japan to be refined. Duh.

They developed a powerful refining industry precisely because they don't have iron ore, obviously.

Yeah that’s gonna take time, but there is a self loading rifle already in the guards use

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=verocusa/detail=factbook/id=1774642

So if that’s my best option would what I’m using be good enough until then

Honestly for the 1960's just having SMGs and LMGs in the squad is good enough unironically. It's what Sweden did until it got FNCs.

High potential to turn your light infantry tactics into an action movie which is a plus.

[Verocusa]

Yeah that’s gonna take time, but there is a self loading rifle already in the guards use

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=verocusa/detail=factbook/id=1774642

So if that’s my best option would what I’m using be good enough until then

Honestly for the 1960's just having SMGs and LMGs in the squad is good enough unironically. It's what Sweden did until it got FNCs.

High potential to turn your light infantry tactics into an action movie which is a plus.

The guard actually specializes in light infantry tactics, since most of the country is temperate and tropical rainforest. It’s why it doesn’t really operate a tank force, and most of the heavy equipment is centered around man and horse mobile artillery and mortars. The artillery in question is actually a bit of a situation specific development I came up with, as an artillery piece cast from steel recycled from old steel and iron hulled ships.

It’s not advanced (it’s a simple breach loading system based off the old whitworths), but it’s large enough (it’s a 70mm 12-pounder gun) to pack a significant punch at the ranges it’s expected to be used at, and versatile enough to still kill light vehicles and trucks on occasion in the place of a dedicated Anti tank gun.



And at the end of the day I could just issue new magazines, a larger magazine was made for the Winchester 1907s

[New Cheshire]

Do New Zealand farmers’ sons make good infantrymen?


This NS nation is liberal so doesn’t want conscription.

Gallia-, do you have any IQ statistics for rural New Zealand?

[Amidia-]

Honestly for the 1960's just having SMGs and LMGs in the squad is good enough unironically. It's what Sweden did until it got FNCs.

High potential to turn your light infantry tactics into an action movie which is a plus.

The guard actually specializes in light infantry tactics, since most of the country is temperate and tropical rainforest. It’s why it doesn’t really operate a tank force, and most of the heavy equipment is centered around man and horse mobile artillery and mortars. The artillery in question is actually a bit of a situation specific development I came up with, as an artillery piece cast from steel recycled from old steel and iron hulled ships.

It’s not advanced (it’s a simple breach loading system based off the old whitworths), but it’s large enough (it’s a 70mm 12-pounder gun) to pack a significant punch at the ranges it’s expected to be used at, and versatile enough to still kill light vehicles and trucks on occasion in the place of a dedicated Anti tank gun.



And at the end of the day I could just issue new magazines, a larger magazine was made for the Winchester 1907s

The 1907 is real weird choice and not exactly a great like martial army, tbh just getting surplus wwii gear is probably just the cheapest move

[Amidia-]

Do New Zealand farmers’ sons make good infantrymen?


This NS nation is liberal so doesn’t want conscription.

Gallia-, do you have any IQ statistics for rural New Zealand?

They'll do just fine, tho I wouldn't necessarily say being liberal precludes you from conscription, the Nordic countries all practiced it and Sweden picked it back up iirc. Being anglophone is probably more of an issue than anything.

[Verocusa]

The guard actually specializes in light infantry tactics, since most of the country is temperate and tropical rainforest. It’s why it doesn’t really operate a tank force, and most of the heavy equipment is centered around man and horse mobile artillery and mortars. The artillery in question is actually a bit of a situation specific development I came up with, as an artillery piece cast from steel recycled from old steel and iron hulled ships.

It’s not advanced (it’s a simple breach loading system based off the old whitworths), but it’s large enough (it’s a 70mm 12-pounder gun) to pack a significant punch at the ranges it’s expected to be used at, and versatile enough to still kill light vehicles and trucks on occasion in the place of a dedicated Anti tank gun.



And at the end of the day I could just issue new magazines, a larger magazine was made for the Winchester 1907s

The 1907 is real weird choice and not exactly a great like martial army, tbh just getting surplus wwii gear is probably just the cheapest move

Why is it a weird choice?

[Amidia-]

The 1907 is real weird choice and not exactly a great like martial army, tbh just getting surplus wwii gear is probably just the cheapest move

Why is it a weird choice?

For the era it's an expensive gun, and more of a sporting piece in terms of durability and reliability, and it's not a cartridge most militaries would have thought very highly of, it's relatively weak. Which is fine in a fancy blowback sporting carbine.

[Puzikas]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=524945

Go migrate, ye endangered creatures


I think making a new thread legally makes me a zoo keeper