Gun Rights? Or Gunned Whites?

[Bakery Hill]

Sorry about the pun. But is it the case that when Americans protest for their Second Amendment rights, all too often many of them have middle class white folks and not ethnic minorities, namely black people, in mind? Recent developments seem to suggest this.

https://urbanintellectuals.com/2017/07/ ... -carry-law

When various “gun rights” groups, with predominantly pro-Republican agendas and predominantly Caucasian members said they planned to show up, there was still no call from the police. Suddenly, as more and more African American armed protesters began checking in on the streets of Cleveland, the police made the call to the governor. “We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something – I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, audaciously said.

But maybe this is just a coincidence. Like when Reagan and the NRA made California's gun laws some of the toughest in the Union after the Black Panthers begin to use their God-Given constitutionally ordained rights? Thoughts NSG?

EDIT: Also this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ck-people/

[The East Marches II]

White people aren't scary is why. Though I'm grateful to our liberal friends who have made a devils bargin with the right to make exercising my constitutional rights difficult. Gun control is rarely color blind and blatantly aimed at the poor (who are more likely to be minorities).

I'd like to add though that Mother Jones article is inaccurate. While what the cops did is typical and I believe the officer should have been found guilty, he was not lawfully carrying due to the thc in his system. You can't cc and have drugs/alcohol in your system. That's why the NRA hasn't been involved.

To their credit though, they helped sue the IL cc board for arbitrarily denying law abiding minorities and got an appeals process opened.

[Greed and Death]

This if anything shows that unions are racist and need to be further restricted.

[United Muscovite Nations]

This is why I find the Right's recent glorification of the police as heroes to be a little worrying; the police really don't like to look after people's constitutional rights; many times, departments are obsessed with getting convictions and "overlook" things like the right to an attorney. In this case, I'm disappointed in a lot of gun rights activists because, even if we don't agree with BLM over their interpretation of the interaction between police and black people, the movement do think that their people are being repressed by a government, and some see the second amendment as a good idea; however, we've kind of boxed ourselves in here, by making it virtually impossible to defend yourself from a police officer abusing his power. This is especially dangerous considering cases where police officers have abused their power to kidnap people under the guise of an arrest.

tl;dr: if police are breaking your nap you should be able to fight them

[Washington Resistance Army]

Gun control here in freedomstan has historically been racist and later classist (the latter greatly shown by the NFA and later the GCA). You don't see an abundance of minorities or poor people amongst the vocal 2A crowd because such people are often incapable of exercising said rights. Someone from south Chicago or New York City is going to have a hell of a hard time actually getting a gun because their local governments make it exceedingly difficult and unless you're VERY well connected (Donald Trump or Diane Feinstein levels of connections) you'll never be allowed to carry.

These are all things that need to change.

As for the Mother Jones article, Castile wasn't a lawful gun owner. Irregardless of your opinion of the law he was an illegal owner as laid out under 922. That's why the NRA didn't get involved.

[Trodarian Benxboro Republic]

This is why I find the Right's recent glorification of the police as heroes to be a little worrying; the police really don't like to look after people's constitutional rights; many times, departments are obsessed with getting convictions and "overlook" things like the right to an attorney. In this case, I'm disappointed in a lot of gun rights activists because, even if we don't agree with BLM over their interpretation of the interaction between police and black people, the movement do think that their people are being repressed by a government, and some see the second amendment as a good idea; however, we've kind of boxed ourselves in here, by making it virtually impossible to defend yourself from a police officer abusing his power. This is especially dangerous considering cases where police officers have abused their power to kidnap people under the guise of an arrest.

tl;dr: if police are breaking your nap you should be able to fight them

What the fuck!

Sorry about the pun. But is it the case that when Americans protest for their Second Amendment rights, all too often many of them have middle class white folks and not ethnic minorities, namely black people, in mind? Recent developments seem to suggest this.

https://urbanintellectuals.com/2017/07/ ... -carry-law

When various “gun rights” groups, with predominantly pro-Republican agendas and predominantly Caucasian members said they planned to show up, there was still no call from the police. Suddenly, as more and more African American armed protesters began checking in on the streets of Cleveland, the police made the call to the governor. “We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something – I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, audaciously said.

But maybe this is just a coincidence. Like when Reagan and the NRA made California's gun laws some of the toughest in the Union after the Black Panthers begin to use their God-Given constitutionally ordained rights? Thoughts NSG?

EDIT: Also this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ck-people/

With all that in mind it's easy to see why people are saying that the second amendment means "WHITE PEOPLE HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SHOOT ALL DARKIES LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL".

White people aren't scary is why. Though I'm grateful to our liberal friends who have made a devils bargin with the right to make exercising my constitutional rights difficult. Gun control is rarely color blind and blatantly aimed at the poor (who are more likely to be minorities).

I'd like to add though that Mother Jones article is inaccurate. While what the cops did is typical and I believe the officer should have been found guilty, he was not lawfully carrying due to the thc in his system. You can't cc and have drugs/alcohol in your system. That's why the NRA hasn't been involved.

To their credit though, they helped sue the IL cc board for arbitrarily denying law abiding minorities and got an appeals process opened.

It's very disturbing to think that gun control is just another means for those who benefit more from plutocracy to silence those who benefit from it less. But it makes sense, I guess. As a suburban middle-class fellow I can imagine the call for gun control is a cry by those in my socioeconomic position to use state power to attempt to undo the memory of any scary people with guns and prevent its' repetition.

[Telconi]

Good ol' two party politics.

[Napkiraly]

This has been a long standing issue. Gun control has been popular when it would fall on minorities having this right constrained if not outright curtailed.

[United Muscovite Nations]

This is why I find the Right's recent glorification of the police as heroes to be a little worrying; the police really don't like to look after people's constitutional rights; many times, departments are obsessed with getting convictions and "overlook" things like the right to an attorney. In this case, I'm disappointed in a lot of gun rights activists because, even if we don't agree with BLM over their interpretation of the interaction between police and black people, the movement do think that their people are being repressed by a government, and some see the second amendment as a good idea; however, we've kind of boxed ourselves in here, by making it virtually impossible to defend yourself from a police officer abusing his power. This is especially dangerous considering cases where police officers have abused their power to kidnap people under the guise of an arrest.

tl;dr: if police are breaking your nap you should be able to fight them

What the fuck!

I forget the name of the case, it was profiled in an episode of the Forensic Files, but a police officer was stalking a woman, so he followed her, pulled her over on a secluded road, kidnapped her with the intention to rape her, but she ran away from him, so he murdered her.*

The Chicago PD also famously has a black site where they illegally interrogate and incarcerate people.

*this case is why you're advised, if a cop turns his lights on while you're on a secluded road, to drive until you get to a less secluded place.

[Napkiraly]

What the fuck!

I forget the name of the case, it was profiled in an episode of the Forensic Files, but a police officer was stalking a woman, so he followed her, pulled her over on a secluded road, kidnapped her with the intention to rape her, but she ran away from him, so he murdered her.

The Chicago PD also famously has a black site where they illegally interrogate and incarcerate people.

There is also the case of a police officer slowly faking to become friends with a guy and getting involved in this guy's little poker games with his other friends, slowly upping the ante each time - so as to breach gambling laws. When they raided the place, the man in question was shot and killed.

[Trodarian Benxboro Republic]

What the fuck!

I forget the name of the case, it was profiled in an episode of the Forensic Files, but a police officer was stalking a woman, so he followed her, pulled her over on a secluded road, kidnapped her with the intention to rape her, but she ran away from him, so he murdered her.*

The Chicago PD also famously has a black site where they illegally interrogate and incarcerate people.

*this case is why you're advised, if a cop turns his lights on while you're on a secluded road, to drive until you get to a less secluded place.

... I knew about Chicago, but not the superpredator cop.

[Greed and Death]

Sorry about the pun. But is it the case that when Americans protest for their Second Amendment rights, all too often many of them have middle class white folks and not ethnic minorities, namely black people, in mind? Recent developments seem to suggest this.

https://urbanintellectuals.com/2017/07/ ... -carry-law

When various “gun rights” groups, with predominantly pro-Republican agendas and predominantly Caucasian members said they planned to show up, there was still no call from the police. Suddenly, as more and more African American armed protesters began checking in on the streets of Cleveland, the police made the call to the governor. “We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something – I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, audaciously said.

But maybe this is just a coincidence. Like when Reagan and the NRA made California's gun laws some of the toughest in the Union after the Black Panthers begin to use their God-Given constitutionally ordained rights? Thoughts NSG?

EDIT: Also this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ck-people/

I always found this the NRA only protects white poeple's gun rights a bit strange.

Lets work backwards. Shall we. Otis McDonald in McDonald v. Chicago is black man that wanted to bear a gun.

In Heller v. District of Columbia 2 of the six parties the NRA funded were black.

[Improved werpland]

Sorry about the pun. But is it the case that when Americans protest for their Second Amendment rights, all too often many of them have middle class white folks and not ethnic minorities, namely black people, in mind? Recent developments seem to suggest this.

https://urbanintellectuals.com/2017/07/ ... -carry-law



But maybe this is just a coincidence. Like when Reagan and the NRA made California's gun laws some of the toughest in the Union after the Black Panthers begin to use their God-Given constitutionally ordained rights? Thoughts NSG?

EDIT: Also this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ck-people/

I always found this the NRA only protects white poeple's gun rights a bit strange.

Lets work backwards. Shall we. Otis McDonald in McDonald v. Chicago is black man that wanted to bear a gun.

In Heller v. District of Columbia 2 of the six parties the NRA funded were black.

Yes, and the NRA was much less of a crazy organization back in the 60's, 70's, and even 80's.

[Bakery Hill]

I always found this the NRA only protects white poeple's gun rights a bit strange.

Lets work backwards. Shall we. Otis McDonald in McDonald v. Chicago is black man that wanted to bear a gun.

In Heller v. District of Columbia 2 of the six parties the NRA funded were black.

Yes, and the NRA was much less of a crazy organization back in the 60's, 70's, and even 80's.

Look at that latest ad. There's an article I read that described the transformation quite well.

[Telconi]

Sorry about the pun. But is it the case that when Americans protest for their Second Amendment rights, all too often many of them have middle class white folks and not ethnic minorities, namely black people, in mind? Recent developments seem to suggest this.

https://urbanintellectuals.com/2017/07/ ... -carry-law



But maybe this is just a coincidence. Like when Reagan and the NRA made California's gun laws some of the toughest in the Union after the Black Panthers begin to use their God-Given constitutionally ordained rights? Thoughts NSG?

EDIT: Also this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ck-people/

I always found this the NRA only protects white poeple's gun rights a bit strange.

Lets work backwards. Shall we. Otis McDonald in McDonald v. Chicago is black man that wanted to bear a gun.

In Heller v. District of Columbia 2 of the six parties the NRA funded were black.

The NRA today is hardly a racist organization. But it us a political organizatiob, and it isn't going to do anything that comes back to bite it.

[Telconi]

I always found this the NRA only protects white poeple's gun rights a bit strange.

Lets work backwards. Shall we. Otis McDonald in McDonald v. Chicago is black man that wanted to bear a gun.

In Heller v. District of Columbia 2 of the six parties the NRA funded were black.

Yes, and the NRA was much less of a crazy organization back in the 60's, 70's, and even 80's.

Gun grabbers were a lot less crazy in the 60s 70s and 80s.

Desperate times and what have you...

[Aclion]

Gun control in this country started out as a way to keep newly freed slaves from arming themselves. While the nature of the prejudice has changed somewhat over the years the primary target has largely remained the same. The poor, disenfranchised and especially black people.

That is why licenses in CT(my own, ostensibly liberal state that none-the-less has one of the most segregated public school systems in the country) costs $140 dollars plus $70 every five years to renew, why we have laws banning "saturday night specials"(basically cheap EDC pistols that poor people could afford) and why we block imports of cheap surplus weapons from other countries and sell our surplus at a loss to nations that sponsor terror rather then our own citizens.

It's worth noting however that it was the police not the i] gun rights groups[/i] who got upset about black people showing up to the protests. You're the only one whose interpreting this as bigotry on the part of the protesters.

That's pretty consistent with my experience with gun groups, both the ones I've dealt with personally and the ones I only know from speaking with others who are members. No matter who you are people who care about guns are happy that you're showing interest, and the fact that gay people, women and minorities are breaking through the barriers and showing interest in learning about self defense(it's usually self defense these days) is seen as a good thing, it only makes the movement stronger.

It's third party bigots who get nervous about "those people" having guns

[The Transylvanian States]

Why does race always come into this? I find it alarming that too many people bring up the subject of race even when it's not needed. It just breeds prejudice and hatred whenever race is involved. Just stop talking about it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Why does race always come into this? I find it alarming that too many people bring up the subject of race even when it's not needed. It just breeds prejudice and hatred whenever race is involved. Just stop talking about it.

Because this is a topic that very much has a lot to do with race.

[Bakery Hill]

Why does race always come into this? I find it alarming that too many people bring up the subject of race even when it's not needed. It just breeds prejudice and hatred whenever race is involved. Just stop talking about it.

No.

[Telconi]

Gun control in this country started out as a way to keep newly freed slaves from arming themselves. While the nature of the prejudice has changed somewhat over the years the primary target has largely remained the same. The poor, disenfranchised and especially black people.

That is why licenses in CT(my own, ostensibly liberal state that none-the-less has one of the most segregated public school systems in the country) costs $140 dollars plus $70 every five years to renew, why we have laws banning "saturday night specials"(basically cheap EDC pistols that poor people could afford) and why we block imports of cheap surplus weapons from other countries and sell our surplus at a loss to nations that sponsor terror rather then our own citizens.

It's worth noting however that it was the police not the i] gun rights groups[/i] who got upset about black people showing up to the protests. You're the only one whose interpreting this as bigotry on the part of the protesters.

That's pretty consistent with my experience with gun groups, both the ones I've dealt with personally and the ones I only know from speaking with others who are members. No matter who you are people who care about guns are happy that you're showing interest, and the fact that gay people, women and minorities are breaking through the barriers and showing interest in learning about self defense(it's usually self defense these days) is seen as a good thing, it only makes the movement stronger.

It's third party bigots who get nervous about "those people" having guns

I saw a gay couple at the range the other day. If you took it out of context, you'd think that fat, white, rednecks with MAGA hats were the most pro-LGBTQ demographic.

[Bakery Hill]

Why does race always come into this? I find it alarming that too many people bring up the subject of race even when it's not needed. It just breeds prejudice and hatred whenever race is involved. Just stop talking about it.

Because this is a topic that very much has a lot to do with race.

He has got a point though, if you stop talking about any problem it tends to go away.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Because this is a topic that very much has a lot to do with race.

He has got a point though, if you stop talking about any problem it tends to go away.

The problems would still be there, even if not talked about.

Though on a somewhat brighter note, I read something earlier about how the numbers of conceal carry permits are going way up and apparently blacks and women are playing a big part in that. We're making progress at least.

[Bakery Hill]

He has got a point though, if you stop talking about any problem it tends to go away.

The problems would still be there, even if not talked about.

I know, I was being a bit sarcastic.

Though on a somewhat brighter note, I read something earlier about how the numbers of conceal carry permits are going way up and apparently blacks and women are playing a big part in that. We're making progress at least.

Power to the people. Only liberals stand in the way of free association under arms.

[Aclion]

He has got a point though, if you stop talking about any problem it tends to go away.

The problems would still be there, even if not talked about.

Though on a somewhat brighter note, I read something earlier about how the numbers of conceal carry permits are going way up and apparently blacks and women are playing a big part in that. We're making progress at least.

Yup, LGBTs too. We've made huge progress reaching out to people who historically have been discouraged from exercising their second amendment rights.