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[DEFEATED] Pride And Prejudice

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Bears Armed Mission
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Civil Rights Lovefest

[DEFEATED] Pride And Prejudice

Postby Bears Armed Mission » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:48 am

Artorrios and some of the other staff members whom you usually see here are sitting back, watching, as a she-Bear with whom you are unfamiliar takes centre-stage (as it were) at the Mission's main desk. She is on the short side for a Bear, only a few inches over 6' tall, has bluish-grey fur, and is wearing a well-cut but unornamented green dress that is parti-coloured in the style & shades of Bears Armed's flag. She looks around the chamber, and then addresses the assembled diplomats in what might be a slightly nervous tone.

"Greetings!
"I am Urrna Silvertrees, Clan Eastdale, and have the honour of being the latest Apprentice Voice assigned to this Mission. My superiors have placed me in charge of sheperding our newest legislative attempt through this organisation. It is based on a proposal originally written by people working for a nation called St Edmund, and was among several such proposals handed over to urrs --
"Free to a good home", as it were -- when we signed-on here just as the St Edmundans were leaving. An earlier member of this Mission attempted to get the original version passed but failed, although it did receive almost two-in-five of the votes cast on that occasion, but that was seven years ago and we have made some slight changes to the text since then so the government has decided that trying again is worthwhile. Ladies, gentlebears, and others, I give you: 'Pride And Prejudice'."

She sits down, with what is definitely an air of relief, as 'Brock' (i.e. anthrpomorphic Badger) staff carry stacked copies of the draft around to those missions who aren't content with accessing it electronically.

Version Six: Submitted

Pride and Prejudice

Category:
Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Bears Armed Mission

Description: It is a truth [almost] universally acknowledged that a government which has been firmly in control of its nation for quite a while is most in need of honest criticism, and of the humility with which to listen to this advice…

Therefore, the World Assembly,

Aware that even in democracies the tenure of government or other public office, especially if prolonged and without credible opposition, may help lead national or sub-national leaders, government members, other politicians, and public officials, into a belief that they are naturally superior to their nations’ other inhabitants, and to think that their own views are not just the only ones they need to consider but the only ones that might even be worth considering at all,

Defining the term 'the relevant people', for the purposes of this resolution, as meaning 'national and sub-national leaders, government members, other politicians, and public officials, whose roles involve making, voting on, and/or advising on public policy in any WA member nation',

Recognising that some of the relevant people might sometimes allow belief in their own superiority to lead them into arrogant actions, or into the passage of badly-thought-out legislation, to the detriment of their nations’ other inhabitants,

Recognising also that some of the relevant people, especially if confident of retaining power, might allow their policies and actions to be influenced by prejudice either towards or against various elements of their nations’ populations,

Believing that if any of the relevant people give in to Pride and Prejudice in these ways then they are unlikely to govern those nations in the best interests of the overall populations therein;

Hereby,

1. Strongly Urges all of the relevant people to listen seriously to honest criticism and constructive advice, and to take this advice in the spirit in which it is meant, instead of just ignoring, belittling or even punishing, the sources of that criticism and advice;

2. Strongly Urges all of the relevant people to act consistently in the best interests of the people within their jurisdictions as a whole, without letting prejudice either towards or against any elements of those populations influence the ways in which they perform their official responsibilities;

3. Suggests to all of the relevant people that listening to public opinion might improve their chances of remaining in office;

4. Declares that if a member nation's government officially states that it will regard the result of a forthcoming referendum or plebiscite as binding, and that vote is on a subject legal under both WA law and the nation’s own constitution, then (even if that nation's constitution itself does not state legally-binding referendums or plebiscites to be possible) that government must indeed consider itself bound by the results of that poll and act accordingly without undue delay;

5. Reminds all of the relevant people that no matter how long and how firmly they may have held those positions, or for how much longer they might reasonably expect to retain them, it is highly unlikely (unless they have very unusual metabolisms indeed…) that the sun actually shines forth from any portions of their anatomies.


Pride and Prejudice

Category:
Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Bears Armed Mission


Description: It is a truth [almost] universally acknowledged that a government which has been firmly in control of its nation for quite a while is most in need of honest criticism, and of the humility with which to listen to this advice…

Therefore, the World Assembly,

Recognising that even in democracies the tenure of government or other public office, especially if prolonged and without credible opposition, may help lead national or sub-national leaders, government members, other politicians, and public officials, into a belief that they are naturally superior to their nations’ other inhabitants, and to think that their own views are not just the only ones they need to consider but the only ones that might even be worth considering at all,

Defining the term 'the relevant people', for the purposes of this resolution, as meaning 'national and sub-national leaders, government members, other politicians, and public officials, whose roles involve making, voting on, and/or advising on public policy in any WA member nation',

Recognising that some of the relevant people might sometimes allow belief in their own superiority to lead them into arrogant actions, or into the passage of badly-thought-out legislation, to the detriment of their nations’ other inhabitants,

Recognising also that some of the relevant people, especially if confident of retaining power, might allow their policies and actions to be influenced by prejudice either towards or against various elements of their nations’ populations,

Believing that if any of the relevant people give in to Pride and Prejudice in these ways then they are unlikely to govern those nations in the best interests of the overall populations therein;

Hereby,

1. Strongly Urges all of the relevant people to listen seriously to honest criticism and constructive advice, and to take this advice in the spirit in which it is meant, instead of just ignoring, belittling or even punishing, the sources of that criticism and advice;

2. Strongly Urges all of the relevant people to act consistently in the best interests of the people within their jurisdictions as a whole, without letting prejudice either towards or against any elements of those populations influence the ways in which they perform their official responsibilities;

3. Suggests to all of the relevant people that listening to public opinion might improve their chances of remaining in office;

4. Declares that if a member nation's government officially states that it will regard the result of a forthcoming referendum or plebiscite as binding and that vote is on a subject legal under WA law then, even if that nation's constitution itself does not state legally-binding referendums or plebiscites to be possible, that government must indeed consider itself bound by the results of that poll and act accordingly without undue delay;

5. Reminds all of the relevant people that no matter how long and how firmly they may have held those positions, or for how much longer they might reasonably expect to retain them, it is highly unlikely (unless they have very unusual metabolisms indeed…) that the sun actually shines forth from any portions of their anatomies.

co-Author: St Edmund.



[u]Pride And Prejudice

Category:
Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Bears Armed Mission


Description: It is a truth [almost] universally acknowledged that a government which has been firmly in control of its nation for quite a while is most in need of honest criticism, and of the humility with which to listen to this advice…

Therefore, the World Assembly,

Recognising that even in democracies the tenure of government or other public office, especially if prolonged and without credible opposition, may help lead national or sub-national leaders, government members, other politicians, and public officials, into a belief that they are naturally superior to their nations’ other inhabitants, and to think that their own views are not just the only ones they need to consider but the only ones that might even be worth considering at all,

Defining the term 'the relevant people', for the purposes of this resolution, as meaning 'national and sub-national leaders, government members, other politicians, and public officials, whose roles involve making, voting on, and/or advising on public policy in any WA member nation',

Recognising that some of the relevant people might sometimes allow belief in their own superiority to lead them into arrogant actions, or into the passage of badly-thought-out legislation, to the detriment of their nations’ other inhabitants,

Recognising also that some of the relevant people, especially if confident of retaining power, might allow their policies and actions to be influenced by prejudice either towards or against various elements of their nations’ populations,

Believing that if any of the relevant people give in to Pride and Prejudice in these ways then they are unlikely to govern those nations in the best interests of the overall populations therein;

Hereby,

1. STRONGLY URGES all of the relevant people to listen seriously to honest criticism and constructive advice, and to take this advice in the spirit in which it is meant, instead of just ignoring, belittling or even punishing, the sources of that criticism and advice;

2. STRONGLY URGES all of the relevant people to act consistently in the best interests of the people within their jurisdictions as a whole, without letting prejudice either towards or against any elements of those populations influence the ways in which they perform their official responsibilities;

3. DECLARES that if a member nation's government officially states that it will regard the result of a forthcoming referendum or plebiscite as binding and that vote is on a subject legal under WA law then, even if that nation's constitution itself does not state legally-binding referendums or plebiscites to be possible, that government must indeed consider itself bound by the results of that poll and act accordingly without undue delay;

4. REMINDS all of the relevant people that no matter how long and how firmly they may have held those positions, or for how much longer they might reasonably expect to retain them, it is highly unlikely (unless they have very unusual metabolisms indeed…) that the sun actually shines forth from any portions of their anatomies.

Co-author: St Edmund.


Pride and Prejudice

Category:
Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Bears Armed Mission


Description: It is a truth [almost] universally acknowledged that a government which has been firmly in control of its nation for quite a while is most in need of honest criticism, and of the humility with which to listen to this advice…

Therefore the World Assembly,

RECOGNISING that even in democracies the tenure of public office, especially if prolonged and without credible opposition, may help lead not only national and sub-national leaders but other politicians and public officials as well into a belief that they are naturally superior to their nations’ other inhabitants, and to think that their own views are not just the only ones they need to consider but the only ones that might even be worth considering at all;

RECOGNISING that national or sub-national leaders, other politicians, and public officials, might sometimes allow such a belief to lead them into arrogant actions, or into the passage of badly-thought-out legislation, to the detriment of their nations’ other inhabitants,

RECOGNISING also that some national or sub-national leaders, other politicians, and public officials, especially if confident of retaining power, might allow their policies and actions to be influenced by prejudice either towards or against various elements of their nations’ populations,

BELIEVING that if national or sub-national leaders, other politicians, or public officials, give in to Pride and Prejudice in these ways then they are unlikely to govern those nations in the best interests of the overall populations therein;

Hereby,

1. STRONGLY URGES all government members, other politicians, and public officials, whose roles involve making or advising on public policy in WA member nations, to listen seriously to honest criticism and constructive advice, and to take this advice in the spirit in which it is meant, instead of just ignoring, belittling or even punishing, the sources of that criticism and advice;

2. STRONGLY URGES all government members, other politicians, and public officials, whose roles involve making or advising on public policy in WA member nations, to act consistently in the best interests of the people within their jurisdictions as a whole, without letting prejudice either towards or against any elements of those populations influence the ways in which they perform their official responsibilities;

3. DECLARES that if a member nation's government officially states that it will regard the result of a forthcoming referendum or plebiscite as binding then, even if that nation's constitution itself does not state legally-binding referendums or plebiscites to be possible, that government must indeed consider itself bound by the results of that poll and act accordingly without undue delay;

4. REMINDS all government members, other politicians, and public officials, whose roles involve making or advising on public policy in WA member nations, that no matter how long and how firmly they may have held those positions, or for how much longer they might reasonably expect to retain them, it is highly unlikely (unless they have very unusual metabolisms indeed…) that the Sun actually shines forth from any portions of their anatomies.

Original author: St Edmund.
(This is the version that was submitted for a trial run.)

Pride and Prejudice

Category:
Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Bears Armed Mission


Description: It is a truth (almost) universally acknowledged that a government which has been firmly in control of its nation for quite a while is most in need of honest criticism, and of the humility with which to listen to this advice…

Therefore the World Assembly,

RECOGNISING that even in democracies the tenure of public office, especially if prolonged and without credible opposition, may help lead not only national and sub-national leaders but lesser politicians and subordinate officials as well into a belief that they are naturally superior to their nations’ other inhabitants, and to think that their own views are not just the only ones they need to consider but the only ones that might even be worth considering at all;

RECOGNISING that national or sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials, might sometimes allow such a belief to lead them into arrogant actions, or into the passage of badly-thought-out legislation, to the detriment of their nations’ other inhabitants,

RECOGNISING also that some national or sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials, especially if confident of retaining power, might allow their policies and actions to be influenced by prejudice either towards or against various elements of their nations’ populations,

BELIEVING that if national or sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, or subordinate officials, give in to Pride and Prejudice in these ways then they are unlikely to govern those nations in the best interests of the overall populations therein;

1. STRONGLY URGES all national and sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials, to listen seriously to honest criticism and constructive advice, and to take this in the spirit in which it is meant, instead of just ignoring, belittling or even punishing, the sources of that criticism and advice;

2. STRONGLY URGES national and sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials, to act consistently in the best interests of the people within their jurisdictions as a whole, without letting prejudice either towards or against any elements of those populations influence the ways in which they perform their official responsibilities;

3. REMINDS all national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials, that no matter how long and how firmly they may have held those positions, or for how much longer they might reasonably expect to retain them, it is highly unlikely (unless they have very unusual metabolisms indeed…) that the Sun actually shines forth from any portions of their anatomies.

Original author: St Edmund.
Last edited by Ransium on Sat May 19, 2018 5:27 pm, edited 27 times in total.
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Giant Bats
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Giant Bats » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:34 pm

Ikiti had no use for a paper version, but she waited for her translator to do its best to explain all the concepts involved.

"What does this actually do?" she asked eventually. "Especially to further democracy? As far as I understand, clause 1 tells politicians and bureaucrats to be nice, clause 3 subtly insults them, and clause 2... Well, clause 2 is the only one with any teeth, even though the prejudice part seems to already having been caught by existing anti-discriminatory legislation. As for the part telling elected officials to act "in the best interests of the people", how exactly does that further democracy? Isn't it up to the voters to select better ones if the ones they selected last time did a bad job?"

- Ikiti Tikilikrr, the Head of the Diplomatic Wing, 10th generation mother of two
Last edited by Giant Bats on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:01 pm

"I second Ikiti concerns; this appears to do little more then soap-boxing, and if what you say is true I doubt very much that these officials will change simply because they are urged to."

OOC: Though it would be great fun to reference this resolution in regards to behavior of some of the people here.
Last edited by Aclion on Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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States of Glory WA Office
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby States of Glory WA Office » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:20 pm

Fairburn: Oh, please, politicians! Please, please, pretty please try to act in the best interests of the electorate rather than in your own selfish interests!

This proposal is more toothless than my grandpa and he was cremated. Against.
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:12 pm

Gerald steps into the debate hall, filling in for Ogenbond as he works in the office. "I believe a more appropriate title for your proposal would be 'Much Ado About Nothing'. Our delegation does not vote for proposals that achieve nothing."
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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:56 am

"I'm not even sure this is legal."
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Bears Armed Mission
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed Mission » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:29 am

States of Glory WA Office wrote:Fairburn: Oh, please, politicians! Please, please, pretty please try to act in the best interests of the electorate rather than in your own selfish interests!
This proposal is more toothless than my grandpa and he was cremated. Against.

"Ur'rmm, but don't 'Furtherment of Democracy' proposals with serious teeth" (Urrna opens her mouth briefly, displaying a set of what most people present would probably consider to be quite serious teeth indeed...) "tend to run up against the rule against ideological bans... and the sheer number of non-democratic, not to say outrightly anti-democratic governments represented here?"


United Massachusetts wrote:"I'm not even sure this is legal."

"Hwhy not? There's ample precedent for 'Mild' resolutions that only 'URGE' hrrather than 'REQUIRE' member nations to do something."


Urrna Silvertrees,
Apprentice Voice,
Bears Armed Mission at the WA.


_______________________________________________________________________________

I expect that it should be possible to get this to quorum, if & when I submit it, even though the number of approvals required has risen significantly since the previous version's time. I admit that I'll be [pleasantly] surprised if it actually passes, but a 'harmless' & relatively unimportant proposal like this seemed a good way -- both OOC & IC -- to introduce my new character to the Chamber... and, as the old saying goes, "Dry paws catch no fish."

^_^
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Ardchoille says: “Bears can be depended on for decent arguments even when there aren't any”.

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Bakhton
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Postby Bakhton » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:41 am

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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:29 pm

Bears Armed Mission wrote:
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Fairburn: Oh, please, politicians! Please, please, pretty please try to act in the best interests of the electorate rather than in your own selfish interests!
This proposal is more toothless than my grandpa and he was cremated. Against.

"Ur'rmm, but don't 'Furtherment of Democracy' proposals with serious teeth" (Urrna opens her mouth briefly, displaying a set of what most people present would probably consider to be quite serious teeth indeed...) "tend to run up against the rule against ideological bans... and the sheer number of non-democratic, not to say outrightly anti-democratic governments represented here?"

Fairburn: Couldn't you just require member states that have elections to provide free hot beverages at every polling booth?
Ambassador: Bartholomew Harper Fairburn Rowan Flowerhaze Souldream Bartholomew Harper Fairburn
Assistant: Neville Lynn Robert
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain

Other ambassadorial staff include but are not limited to Barbera Warner and Harold "The Clown" Johnson.

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:07 pm

OOC: Since my attempt at IC is ignored, going to ask OOCly: how does this proposal further democracy?
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Bears Armed Mission
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed Mission » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:37 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Since my attempt at IC is ignored, going to ask OOCly: how does this proposal further democracy?

OOC: Sorry, don't know why I skipped that one. IC, put it down to Urrna -- new to the GA as she is -- being a bit wary of the giant bats...

Even giving governments constructive advice may be considered criticism of those governments' current policies. Proposals that make it easier or safer for people to criticize their governments -- and that encourage governments to listen to their people -- count as 'Furtherment of Democracy'. As precedent I cite GA Resolution #30 'Freedom of Expression'.
And, before anybody asks, I think that this proposal is distinct enough from that resolution that it doesn't count as Duplication.
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Ardchoille says: “Bears can be depended on for decent arguments even when there aren't any”.

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:18 am

Bears Armed Mission wrote:OOC: Sorry, don't know why I skipped that one. IC, put it down to Urrna -- new to the GA as she is -- being a bit wary of the giant bats...

OOC: Well, they might have more impressive teeth than her... :P

Even giving governments constructive advice may be considered criticism of those governments' current policies. Proposals that make it easier or safer for people to criticize their governments -- and that encourage governments to listen to their people -- count as 'Furtherment of Democracy'.

Then perhaps you should focus on that, rather than trying to tell elected officials to be nice? Also, considering that you make no mention of "elected" anywhere in there, means that this necessarily affects also the officials of non-democratic nations, without actually requiring any action from them. Or from anyone in democratic nations either, for that matter.

As precedent I cite GA Resolution #30 'Freedom of Expression'.

Which many, including me, consider to be in the wrong category.

And, before anybody asks, I think that this proposal is distinct enough from that resolution that it doesn't count as Duplication.

What exactly does it do beyond duplicating FoE (the right to say your piece of mind) and CoCR (discrimination based on prejudices)?
Last edited by Araraukar on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bears Armed Mission
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed Mission » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:27 am

Araraukar wrote:
Bears Armed Mission wrote:Even giving governments constructive advice may be considered criticism of those governments' current policies. Proposals that make it easier or safer for people to criticize their governments -- and that encourage governments to listen to their people -- count as 'Furtherment of Democracy'.

Then perhaps you should focus on that, rather than trying to tell elected officials to be nice? Also, considering that you make no mention of "elected" anywhere in there, means that this necessarily affects also the officials of non-democratic nations, without actually requiring any action from them.
OOC: Yes, it would affect them -- to the extent that it affects anybody -- too. They can avoid actually doing anything, but they can't escape being "strongly urged" and hopefully that will influence some of them: That's the previously-given Modly rationale for allowing 'Mild' proposals to be legal without any binding clauses.

Araraukar wrote:
As precedent I cite GA Resolution #30 'Freedom of Expression'.
And, before anybody asks, I think that this proposal is distinct enough from that resolution that it doesn't count as Duplication.

What exactly does it do beyond duplicating FoE (the right to say your piece of mind) and CoCR (discrimination based on prejudices)?
OOC: It strongly urges politicians & civil servants to actually listen to what people are saying.
This is the WA Mission of Bears Armed, but is technically defined as a separate nation in its own right for all legal purposes. Population = sixty-four staff, plus some dependents.

GA Resolution Author

Ardchoille says: “Bears can be depended on for decent arguments even when there aren't any”.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:10 am

Bears Armed Mission wrote:OOC: Yes, it would affect them -- to the extent that it affects anybody -- too. They can avoid actually doing anything, but they can't escape being "strongly urged" and hopefully that will influence some of them: That's the previously-given Modly rationale for allowing 'Mild' proposals to be legal without any binding clauses.

Quite, I agree with you in that the proposal isn't (or should not be) illegal. But, what is to stop me, however, in the future, from passing legislation which urges them to do the same thing again? Duplication can't apply, because it's reasonable that a second urging would influence some more of whatever I seem to be affecting.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wrapper
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Postby Wrapper » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:23 am

OOC:

Imperium Anglorum wrote:But, what is to stop me, however, in the future, from passing legislation which urges them to do the same thing again? Duplication can't apply, because it's reasonable that a second urging would influence some more of whatever I seem to be affecting.

Why wouldn't duplication apply? It's just as reasonable that the type of government or nation that would refuse to do something when "strongly urged" the first time are just as likely to refuse if "strongly urged" a second time.

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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:37 am

Wrapper wrote:It's just as reasonable that the type of government or nation that would refuse to do something when "strongly urged" the first time are just as likely to refuse if "strongly urged" a second time.

OOC: Try telling that to the UNnameable organisation. :P
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Other ambassadorial staff include but are not limited to Barbera Warner and Harold "The Clown" Johnson.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:41 am

Tinhampton (both as a nation and as a player) is in favour of this proposal, and would vote FOR the resolution if this did come to vote.
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The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper
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Postby The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:03 am

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Wrapper wrote:It's just as reasonable that the type of government or nation that would refuse to do something when "strongly urged" the first time are just as likely to refuse if "strongly urged" a second time.

OOC: Try telling that to the UNnameable organisation. :P

:clap:

C'mon, let's get into character....


ARI: Madam Silvertrees, we the Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper applaud the spirit of this proposal but would ask for some changes to clarify who this should affect. Firstly, "lesser politicians". We're not sure this means what you think it means. Surely someone in charge of a smaller division of our nation, such as a village or island, is not necessarily a "lesser politician" than those in the national government. As for "subordinate officials", should we suppose, since we are appointed by the president himself, that such a designation would include this delegation? If so, we must say that we have a hard time listening seriously to some if the alleged "honest criticism" we hear in the course of our duties. And that part about the sun shining forth from one's anatomy, we're guessing you haven't met the indigenous population of P9X-786, have you? (Ahume whispers in Ari's ear.) Ah, yes, you also need to change your period to a semi-colon at the end of clause 2 and to change your semi-colon to a period at the end of clause 3.
The General Assembly Delegation of the Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper:
-- Wad Ari Alaz, Wrapperian Ambassador to the WA; Author, SCR#200, GAR #300, GAR#361.
-- Wad Ahume Orliss-Dorcke, Deputy Ambassador; two-time Intergalactic Karaoke League champion.
-- Wad Dawei DeGoah, Ambassador Emeritus; deceased.
THE GA POSTS FROM THIS NATION ARE IN-CHARACTER AND SHOULD NEVER BE TAKEN AS MODERATOR RULINGS.

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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 1847
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bananaistan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:37 am

The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper wrote:ARI: Madam Silvertrees, we the Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper applaud the spirit of this proposal but would ask for some changes to clarify who this should affect. Firstly, "lesser politicians". We're not sure this means what you think it means. Surely someone in charge of a smaller division of our nation, such as a village or island, is not necessarily a "lesser politician" than those in the national government. As for "subordinate officials", should we suppose, since we are appointed by the president himself, that such a designation would include this delegation? If so, we must say that we have a hard time listening seriously to some if the alleged "honest criticism" we hear in the course of our duties. And that part about the sun shining forth from one's anatomy, we're guessing you haven't met the indigenous population of P9X-786, have you? (Ahume whispers in Ari's ear.) Ah, yes, you also need to change your period to a semi-colon at the end of clause 2 and to change your semi-colon to a period at the end of clause 3.


"I would have taken the whole "national or sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials" to mean all politicians and all civil servants. It's arguable whether it would also extend to public servants such as teachers, officers of the Civic Guard, and doctors and nurses in the National Health System given that they are, respectively, employees (and therefore could be classed as subordinate officials) of the Ministers for Education, Justice and Health. It is hardly appropriate for such officials to be subject to these recommendations. Indeed, obvious higher level subordinate officials, IE senior civil servants such as myself, are accountable to to the leaders and politicians and I certainly don't want to have to listen to the incoherent ramblings of Joe Public. I have enough to be doing with the incoherent ramblings of Comrade General Secretary and the Minister for External Affairs, thank you very much.

"Incidentally, I am informed that Comrade General Secretary and the Minister for External Affairs have committed Bananaistan to full support of this proposal as is currently written and with its current scope. I believe they both agreed that "gobshites like that Hornwood clown could do with being taken down a peg or two"."
Last edited by Bananaistan on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper
Diplomat
 
Posts: 601
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:51 am

Bananaistan wrote:"I would have taken the whole "national or sub-national leaders, lesser politicians, and subordinate officials" to mean all politicians and all civil servants....

ARI: Oh, not very likely; if that's what they meant they would have said "all politicians and civil servants".

"Incidentally, I am informed that Comrade General Secretary and the Minister for External Affairs have committed Bananaistan to full support of this proposal as is currently written and with its current scope. I believe they both agreed that "gobshites like that Hornwood clown could do with being taken down a peg or two"."

ARI: Ha, yes, we get what you mean about that silly fellow Hornwo... (Ahume nudges him.) ...erm. That... that's him, isn't it?
The General Assembly Delegation of the Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper:
-- Wad Ari Alaz, Wrapperian Ambassador to the WA; Author, SCR#200, GAR #300, GAR#361.
-- Wad Ahume Orliss-Dorcke, Deputy Ambassador; two-time Intergalactic Karaoke League champion.
-- Wad Dawei DeGoah, Ambassador Emeritus; deceased.
THE GA POSTS FROM THIS NATION ARE IN-CHARACTER AND SHOULD NEVER BE TAKEN AS MODERATOR RULINGS.

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Bears Armed Mission
Diplomat
 
Posts: 785
Founded: Jul 26, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed Mission » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:38 am

The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper wrote:ARI: Madam Silvertrees, we the Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper applaud the spirit of this proposal but would ask for some changes to clarify who this should affect. Firstly, "lesser politicians". We're not sure this means what you think it means. Surely someone in charge of a smaller division of our nation, such as a village or island, is not necessarily a "lesser politician" than those in the national government. As for "subordinate officials", should we suppose, since we are appointed by the president himself, that such a designation would include this delegation? If so, we must say that we have a hard time listening seriously to some if the alleged "honest criticism" we hear in the course of our duties. And that part about the sun shining forth from one's anatomy, we're guessing you haven't met the indigenous population of P9X-786, have you? (Ahume whispers in Ari's ear.) Ah, yes, you also need to change your period to a semi-colon at the end of clause 2 and to change your semi-colon to a period at the end of clause 3.

"For the first of those points, would you prefer it if we referred to 'politicians and public officals who have the authority to make or advise on public policy' instead?
"No, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't met any member of the
People whom you mention. Do you have a picture of one available here?
"As regards the punctuation, thank you for pointing it out. That detail was apparently missed hwhen the formerly-first operative clause was moved to the place at the end of the text that it now holds, and I then overlooked it myself because I'm much more accustomed to Ursine which uses a different system for punctuation. It will be fixed very shortly."


Urrna Silvertrees,
Apprentice Voice,
Bears Armed Mission at the WA.

(OOC: That punctuation in the draft has now been fixed.)
Last edited by Bears Armed Mission on Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is the WA Mission of Bears Armed, but is technically defined as a separate nation in its own right for all legal purposes. Population = sixty-four staff, plus some dependents.

GA Resolution Author

Ardchoille says: “Bears can be depended on for decent arguments even when there aren't any”.

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Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7543
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:48 pm

Perhaps one could try some of that delightful Athenian democracy.

Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate

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Omigodtheykilledkenny
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5581
Founded: Mar 14, 2005
Capitalizt

Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:21 pm

Araraukar wrote:
As precedent I cite GA Resolution #30 'Freedom of Expression'.

Which many, including me, consider to be in the wrong category.

Freedom of speech is a democratic freedom, silly. And I took high school civics just to make sure.
Last edited by Omigodtheykilledkenny on Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Omigodtheykilledkenny FAQ | "The Biggest Sovereigntist IN THE WORLD" - Chester Pearson

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Omigodtheykilledkenny
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5581
Founded: Mar 14, 2005
Capitalizt

Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:24 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:"I'm not even sure this is legal."

It was apparently legal the last time it was voted on.
Omigodtheykilledkenny FAQ | "The Biggest Sovereigntist IN THE WORLD" - Chester Pearson

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11445
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:51 pm

Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:Freedom of speech is a democratic freedom, silly.

OOC: More like human right, but, eh, difference of opinion.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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