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Is Diversity and Multiculturalism a Good or Bad Thing?

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San Lumen
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Is Diversity and Multiculturalism a Good or Bad Thing?

Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:36 am

I've seen and heard comments recently here and elsewhere regarding changing demographics and areas becoming more multicultural and diverse is a bad thing. That somehow it undermines the concept of a nation or is somehow destructive to the culture of the country or province or city. Having a multicultural nation or city contributes much to a society.

Some have even go so far as to allege there is some conspiracy involved which is complete nonsense.

I fail to see how multiculturalism and diversity is a bad thing. Go to any major city and you find people from all backgrounds and different ethnic groups. Why is that a bad thing? My city and our neighboring city is one of the most diverse and multicultural in the world. Being diverse and multicultural has contributed a great deal to our culture and history. I love walking down the street and hearing other languages and seeing people from many different backgrounds and countries.

If someone comes to your country legally either as an immigrant or a refugee seeking a better life and opportunity why is that bad. In addition said person gets a work visa and a job and later becomes a citizen, why is that not a good thing?

Furthermore everyone is a descendent of immigrants in some way no matter how far back you go. Unless you are from certain areas in Asia or the Middle East or Africa you are technically an immigrant.

What's your thoughts NSG?
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:38 am

Depends how different the cultures are. If they have different moral codes, then it can be very dangerous to civil society.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:39 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Depends how different the cultures are. If they have different moral codes, then it can be very dangerous to civil society.

In what way? How does having Muslims in England, Canada or Germany for example dangerous to society?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:40 am

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Depends how different the cultures are. If they have different moral codes, then it can be very dangerous to civil society.

In what way? How does having Muslims in England, Canada or Germany for example dangerous to society?

Because some sects of Islam preach a morality radically different than those accepted in the West. One that can be considered illegal in some cases.
Last edited by United Muscovite Nations on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Prayer of the Russians wrote:God, save the Tsar! To the glorious one, long days. Give on this earth! To the subduer of the proud, To the keeper of the weak To the comforter of everyone, Grant everything!
Yegor Ligachyov wrote:Public ownership unites, but private ownership disunites people's interests and indisputably causes social stratification of society.... For what purpose was perestroika started? For the purpose of most fully using the potential of socialism. Then does the sale of enterprises into private hands really promote the revealing of the possibilities inherent in the socialist system? No, it does not.

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Fostoria
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Postby Fostoria » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:43 am

Personally, I mostly don't have a problem with immigration (in general), as long as the people coming in are properly vetted and the government won't have to support them.

The main concern with modern-day immigration is that people from poor third-world countries are coming to first-world countries just to take advantage of their welfare and healthcare systems. And after many years, this could lead to the race of the immigrants being even more prolific than that of the original inhabitants, which would be unfortunate.

But if people are willing to come and work hard without expecting welfare, I don't see an issue.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:44 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:In what way? How does having Muslims in England, Canada or Germany for example dangerous to society?

Because some sects of Islam preach a morality radically different than those accepted in the West. One that can be considered illegal in some cases.


That may be true but not all. In many places in the west Muslims immigrants have assimilated well and dont seek to change the law to suit their moral code.

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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:45 am

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Because some sects of Islam preach a morality radically different than those accepted in the West. One that can be considered illegal in some cases.


That may be true but not all. In many places in the west Muslims immigrants have assimilated well and dont seek to change the law to suit their moral code.

I never said all. And I never even mentioned Muslims until you did.
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The Prayer of the Russians wrote:God, save the Tsar! To the glorious one, long days. Give on this earth! To the subduer of the proud, To the keeper of the weak To the comforter of everyone, Grant everything!
Yegor Ligachyov wrote:Public ownership unites, but private ownership disunites people's interests and indisputably causes social stratification of society.... For what purpose was perestroika started? For the purpose of most fully using the potential of socialism. Then does the sale of enterprises into private hands really promote the revealing of the possibilities inherent in the socialist system? No, it does not.

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Postby Fostoria » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:45 am

Also, immigrants that come into another country shouldn't expect that country's original inhabitants to conform to them, they should conform to the original inhabitants' "culture" (I say that in quotes because I mean certain social aspects that wouldn't be acceptable in Western society).
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:45 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
That may be true but not all. In many places in the west Muslims immigrants have assimilated well and dont seek to change the law to suit their moral code.

I never said all. And I never even mentioned Muslims until you did.

Someone who practices Islam is a Muslim.

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Postby New Grestin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:46 am

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Depends how different the cultures are. If they have different moral codes, then it can be very dangerous to civil society.

In what way? How does having Muslims in England, Canada or Germany for example dangerous to society?

If they're unwilling to integrate, as has happened in some instances, then the dissonance of core values between the local and immigrant cultures can become an issue.

That's not to say they can never integrate, of course. Most people prefer to emphasize the more problematic parts of multiculturalism and diversity as part of the current political agenda. The reality is that the reason you hear more about the problems of multiculturalism is because the positives aren't as noticeable.

Besides, fighting the inevitable collusion of cultures in a globalized world is virtually impossible. There's going to be strain between cultures and there will be violence, of course, but this is no different than any other period in human history. We just happen to have the internet and the information revolution, which has proven both a blessing and a curse.
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Postby Malaguenia » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:46 am

As long as people don't bring their bad parts of their culture in the west, such as refusing to assimilate, trying to replace the native culture or bring their barbaric practises. Then multiculturalism can have its benefits as long as it not forced by quotas and affirmative action.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:46 am

Fostoria wrote:Also, immigrants that come into another country shouldn't expect that country's original inhabitants to conform to them, they should conform to the original inhabitants' "culture" (I say that in quotes because I mean certain social aspects that wouldn't be acceptable in Western society).

I dont disagree with that.

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Postby Aelex » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:47 am

Multiculturalism isn't necessarily bad in melting pot countries such as the U.S, Canada or other nations without an actual monolithic identity but it is however utter cancer for Nation-States for it rot the very pillar upon which those countries are built.
Even in the said first countries, it shouldn't be encouraged for it only leads to self-segregation and communautarisme no matter where it is applied.
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Postby Rei Valente » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:47 am

A bad thing, homogeneous societies work much better in my opinion.

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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:47 am

San Lumen wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I never said all. And I never even mentioned Muslims until you did.

Someone who practices Islam is a Muslim.

You're the one who brought up Islam, I just responded to it.
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The Prayer of the Russians wrote:God, save the Tsar! To the glorious one, long days. Give on this earth! To the subduer of the proud, To the keeper of the weak To the comforter of everyone, Grant everything!
Yegor Ligachyov wrote:Public ownership unites, but private ownership disunites people's interests and indisputably causes social stratification of society.... For what purpose was perestroika started? For the purpose of most fully using the potential of socialism. Then does the sale of enterprises into private hands really promote the revealing of the possibilities inherent in the socialist system? No, it does not.

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Postby Fostoria » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:48 am

The Muslim ideology that is written in their holy book of Jihad should, in my opinion, have to be vocally denounced before they can immigrate, as part of the assimilation process.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:48 am

Aelex wrote:Multiculturalism isn't necessarily bad in melting pot countries such as the U.S, Canada or other nations without an actual monolithic identity but it is however utter cancer for Nation-States for it rot the very pillar upon which those countries are built.
Even in the said first countries, it shouldn't be encouraged for it only leads to self-segregation and communautarisme no matter where it is applied.

How does it rot the pillar upon which those countries was built?

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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:49 am

Personally, I'm less concerned with the culture or race of immigrants than I am with their education level and IQ. We should allow immigrants based on their ability to economically integrate as well as culturally integrate. Many of the recent migrants have poor educations, as do many of the recent immigrants from Central America into the United States.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist.
The Prayer of the Russians wrote:God, save the Tsar! To the glorious one, long days. Give on this earth! To the subduer of the proud, To the keeper of the weak To the comforter of everyone, Grant everything!
Yegor Ligachyov wrote:Public ownership unites, but private ownership disunites people's interests and indisputably causes social stratification of society.... For what purpose was perestroika started? For the purpose of most fully using the potential of socialism. Then does the sale of enterprises into private hands really promote the revealing of the possibilities inherent in the socialist system? No, it does not.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:50 am

San Lumen wrote:
Aelex wrote:Multiculturalism isn't necessarily bad in melting pot countries such as the U.S, Canada or other nations without an actual monolithic identity but it is however utter cancer for Nation-States for it rot the very pillar upon which those countries are built.
Even in the said first countries, it shouldn't be encouraged for it only leads to self-segregation and communautarisme no matter where it is applied.

How does it rot the pillar upon which those countries was built?

Because a nationstate is built to be a state explicitly for a particular nationality.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist.
The Prayer of the Russians wrote:God, save the Tsar! To the glorious one, long days. Give on this earth! To the subduer of the proud, To the keeper of the weak To the comforter of everyone, Grant everything!
Yegor Ligachyov wrote:Public ownership unites, but private ownership disunites people's interests and indisputably causes social stratification of society.... For what purpose was perestroika started? For the purpose of most fully using the potential of socialism. Then does the sale of enterprises into private hands really promote the revealing of the possibilities inherent in the socialist system? No, it does not.

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The Islands of Versilia
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Postby The Islands of Versilia » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:50 am

I prefer assimilation into the majority culture. Too much diversity can be dangerous, as everyone is in their own group rather than the citizenry collective.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:50 am

Rei Valente wrote:A bad thing, homogeneous societies work much better in my opinion.

Why? What is wrong with someone from another country coming to yours for a better life and getting a job and becoming a citizen?

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Fostoria
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Postby Fostoria » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:51 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Personally, I'm less concerned with the culture or race of immigrants than I am with their education level and IQ. We should allow immigrants based on their ability to economically integrate as well as culturally integrate. Many of the recent migrants have poor educations, as do many of the recent immigrants from Central America into the United States.


I agree with this to a certain extent- as I mentioned before accepting immigrants that only want to take advantage of a first-world country's healthcare and welfare system is NOT a good idea. Only the hard-working people should be let in (and it's fine then).
Last edited by Fostoria on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grand Britannia » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:51 am

Nope.

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Postby Aelex » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:51 am

San Lumen wrote:How does it rot the pillar upon which those countries was built?

Nation-States are built around a single national identity and culture, allowing foreign ones into the country without trying to assimilate them but rather even encouraging them to not do so is quite obviously harmful for the nation.
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Postby New Grestin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:52 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How does it rot the pillar upon which those countries was built?

Because a nationstate is built to be a state explicitly for a particular nationality.

Permit me to posit that if a nationstate's primary pillar of society was weak enough to be rotted out by immigration, then perhaps that nationstate wasn't strong enough to survive in the long term in the first place.
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