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[DRAFT] Education for Mentally Disabled Children

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Araraukar
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[DRAFT] Education for Mentally Disabled Children

Postby Araraukar » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:37 pm

Note: This is not about learning difficulties in general. This is about mental disabilities that cause serious learning difficulties.

Education for Mentally Disabled Children

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education

The World Assembly,

Applauding previous legislative efforts to ensure that everyone, including the disabled, have the right to basic education,

Concerned that "disability" is often understood to mean a physical condition that, for example, requires one to use a wheelchair to move about,

Worried that this allows nations to ignore the special needs of children who have difficulties learning in a normal class environment due to mental disabilities,

Hoping to provide guidance for member nations with the difficulties of educating these children,

Hereby,

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. a "child" as an inhabitant of a WA member nation who is under the age of majority in that nation,
  2. a "medical specialist" as a medical professional specialized in mental disabilities that are likely to cause serious learning difficulties,
  3. "learning challenges" as serious problems with the attention, communication or understanding required to attend regular basic education, which are caused by an irreversible mental disability,
  4. a "mentally challenged student" as a child who has been evaluated by medical specialists to suffer from at least one of the learning challenges,
  5. a "mentally disabled student" as a child, who has been evaluated by medical specialists to suffer from all of the learning challenges,

2. Requires that member nations;
  1. Provide learning ability evaluation service for all children nearing the age for entering basic education, if their caretaker or attending physician has reason to suspect they may be mentally disabled, or when the child has demonstrated an inability to learn normally during their first year of education,
  2. Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who will have the needed skills to educate children with mental disabilities,
  3. Provide, to the best of their ability, all mentally challenged students with basic education; either as part of the regular class, a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or individual instruction by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

3. Additionally requires that member nations also attempt to provide all mentally disabled students with basic education, or as much of it as is possible based on their level of understanding; either as a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or individual instruction by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

4. Encourages member nations to set up a training program, if such does not already exist, for the caretakers of all children with mental disabilities to become accredited instructors for their own children, if they should choose homeschooling,

5. Requires the homeschooling curriculum to follow that of the public education system for children with mental disabilities, to ensure the quality of education,

6. Allows member nations to restrict the learning ability evaluation service to children who are residents of the nation,

7. Reaffirms that this resolution only concerns those children who have serious learning difficulties caused by an irreversible mental disability.

Coauthored by The New European Order


OOC: Since TNEO needs to take an extended leave of absence from NS, we agreed that I would take care of this one and see if it can be passed or not.
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:24 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:37 pm

Draft 2 attempts to make the definitions clearer, including adding a definition of a "child" and "medical specialist", solve the "legal residents" issue without requiring member nations to evaluate all children who vacation there, change "deal" to "work", re-institute the separation between mentally challenged and severely mentally challenged children, and make the homeschooling option clearer yet avoid the issue of homeschooling not following the standards of public schooling.

Draft 3 specifies in the definitions the point about irreversible mental disabilities being in question rather than normal learning difficulties such as dyslexia, also changed "mentally challenged" to "mentally handicapped", to stay in line with GA #80, A Promotion of Basic Education (clause 5), and differentiated milder and more severe cases with "or" in the list of learning difficulties for milder cases though with the addition of "serious" to the troubles to be had to line it up with clause 7, leaving the "and" in the list for the more severe cases. Also changed "school age" to hopefully a more formal wording, and added "inability to learn normally" during first year of education as a probable cause for the evaluation process.

Draft 3.5 only differences to the previous are different title (to make it more clear this is for children with mental disabilities who have learning difficulties rather than all children with learning difficulties), and different levels of mental disabilities, with "challenged" for more able and "disabled" for less able, as based on online research. (If anyone has professional site links why "challenged" shouldn't be used at all, they'd be muchly welcomed.) Also the terms in rest of the proposal changed accordingly, and made the special education teacher information hopefully more specific.

Draft 4.0 makes a few changes to the preamble, changes definitions in clause 1 (especially by adding the new definition in the new clause 1.c.) to hopefully make the difference between challenged and disabled students more clear, without losing the focus on irreversible conditions causing the learning difficulties; and makes the grammar and wording changes suggested as well as adjusts some wording to be more uniform throughout the text.

Version 4.5 changes the preamble, fixes the grammar of one sentence and makes the meaning of clause 5 clearer. Submitted for a trial run without campaign.

Mentally Challenged Students Act

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education

The World Assembly,

Applauding previous legislative efforts to ensure everyone the right to basic education,

Aware of the difficulties of educating those with severe mental disabilities,

Hoping to provide guidance for nations with these difficulties,

Hereby,

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. "mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,
  2. "severely mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have severe trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,

2. Requires that member nations;
  1. Provide mental ability evaluation service for all children nearing school age, who their caretaker or attending physician has reason to suspect may be mentally challenged,
  2. Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who have the needed skills to deal with students who have mental disabilities,
  3. Provide, to the best of their ability, all mentally challenged students with basic education, either as part of the regular class, or as a separate class taught by a special education teacher,

3. Encourages member nations to set up a training program for the caretakers of the severely mentally challenged students to become accredited instructors for their own children, if they should choose homeschooling.

4. Allows member nations to restrict the mental ability evaluation service to children who are legal residents,

Coauthored by The New European Order
Mentally Challenged Students Act

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education

The World Assembly,

Applauding previous legislative efforts to ensure everyone the right to basic education,

Aware of the difficulties of educating those with serious mental disabilities,

Hoping to provide guidance for member nations with these difficulties,

Hereby

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. a "child" as an inhabitant of a WA member nation who is under the age of majority in that nation,
  2. a "medical specialist" as a medical professional specialized in mental disabilities that are likely to cause serious learning difficulties,
  3. a "mentally challenged student" as a child who has been evaluated by medical specialists to have trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,
  4. a "severely mentally challenged student" as a child, who has been evaluated by medical specialists to have severe trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,

2. Requires that member nations;
  1. Provide the learning ability evaluation service for all children nearing school age, who their caretaker or attending physician has reason to suspect may be mentally disabled,
  2. Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who have the needed skills to work with students who have mental disabilities,
  3. Provide, to the best of their ability, all mentally challenged students with basic education; either as part of the regular class, a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or personally taught by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

3. Additionally requires that member nations also attempt to provide all severely mentally challenged students with basic education, or as much of it as is possible based on their level of understanding; either as a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or personally by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

4. Encourages member nations to set up a training program, if such does not already exist, for the caretakers of all mentally challenged students to become accredited instructors for their own children, if they should choose homeschooling,

5. Requires the homeschooling curriculum to follow that of the public education system for mentally challenged students,

6. Allows member nations to restrict the learning ability evaluation service to children who are residents of the nation,

7. Affirms that this resolution only concerns those children who have serious learning difficulties due to a mental disability.

Coauthored by The New European Order
Education for Mentally Disabled Children

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education

The World Assembly,

Applauding previous legislative efforts to ensure everyone the right to basic education,

Aware of the difficulties of educating those with serious mental disabilities,

Hoping to provide guidance for member nations with these difficulties,

Hereby

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. a "child" as an inhabitant of a WA member nation who is under the age of majority in that nation,
  2. a "medical specialist" as a medical professional specialized in mental disabilities that are likely to cause serious learning difficulties,
  3. a "mentally challenged student" as a child who has been evaluated by medical specialists to have serious trouble with the attention, communication or understanding required to attend regular basic education, due to an irreversible mental disability,
  4. a "mentally disabled student" as a child, who has been evaluated by medical specialists to have severe trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education, due to an irreversible mental disability,

2. Requires that member nations;
  1. Provide learning ability evaluation service for all children nearing the age for entering basic education, who their caretaker or attending physician has reason to suspect may be mentally disabled, or who have demonstrated an inability to learn normally during their first year of education,
  2. Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who have the needed skills to educate children with mental disabilities,
  3. Provide, to the best of their ability, all mentally challenged students with basic education; either as part of the regular class, a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or personally taught by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

3. Additionally requires that member nations also attempt to provide all mentally disabled students with basic education, or as much of it as is possible based on their level of understanding; either as a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or personally by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

4. Encourages member nations to set up a training program, if such does not already exist, for the caretakers of all children with mental disabilities to become accredited instructors for their own children, if they should choose homeschooling,

5. Requires the homeschooling curriculum to follow that of the public education system for children with mental disabilities,

6. Allows member nations to restrict the learning ability evaluation service to children who are residents of the nation,

7. Affirms that this resolution only concerns those children who have serious learning difficulties due to a mental disability.

Coauthored by The New European Order
Education for Mentally Disabled Children

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education

The World Assembly,

Applauding previous legislative efforts to ensure everyone, including the disabled, the right to basic education,

Aware of the difficulties of educating children who have serious mental disabilities that may make learning difficult for them,

Hoping to provide guidance for member nations with these difficulties,

Hereby,

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. a "child" as an inhabitant of a WA member nation who is under the age of majority in that nation,
  2. a "medical specialist" as a medical professional specialized in mental disabilities that are likely to cause serious learning difficulties,
  3. "learning challenges" as serious problems with the attention, communication or understanding required to attend regular basic education, which are caused by an irreversible mental disability,
  4. a "mentally challenged student" as a child who has been evaluated by medical specialists to suffer from at least one of the learning challenges,
  5. a "mentally disabled student" as a child, who has been evaluated by medical specialists to suffer from all of the learning challenges,

2. Requires that member nations;
  1. Provide learning ability evaluation service for all children nearing the age for entering basic education, if their caretaker or attending physician has reason to suspect may be mentally disabled, or when the child has demonstrated an inability to learn normally during their first year of education,
  2. Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who will have the needed skills to educate children with mental disabilities,
  3. Provide, to the best of their ability, all mentally challenged students with basic education; either as part of the regular class, a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or individual instruction by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

3. Additionally requires that member nations also attempt to provide all mentally disabled students with basic education, or as much of it as is possible based on their level of understanding; either as a separate class taught by a special education teacher, or individual instruction by a special education teacher or a similarly accredited instructor,

4. Encourages member nations to set up a training program, if such does not already exist, for the caretakers of all children with mental disabilities to become accredited instructors for their own children, if they should choose homeschooling,

5. Requires the homeschooling curriculum to follow that of the public education system for children with mental disabilities,

6. Allows member nations to restrict the learning ability evaluation service to children who are residents of the nation,

7. Reaffirms that this resolution only concerns those children who have serious learning difficulties caused by an irreversible mental disability.

Coauthored by The New European Order
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:18 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Postby Tinhampton » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:40 pm

If TNEO is away for a while and you're not in the WA, then who will submit this proposal (or does that fall to your puppet, Potted Plants United)?
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:44 pm

Tinhampton wrote:If TNEO is away for a while and you're not in the WA, then who will submit this proposal (or does that fall to your puppet, Potted Plants United)?

OOC: When it's ready for submission, I'll switch my WA status to this account.
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Uan aa Boa
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Postby Uan aa Boa » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:19 pm

I like this and don't find too much to criticise at the moment. When 2c says "to the best of their ability" what does it mean? Do nations have to provide basic education to the best of the nation's ability to do so or the best of the student's ability to receive it?

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Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:37 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Mentally Challenged Students Act

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education

The World Assembly,

Applauding previous legislative efforts to ensure everyone the right to basic education,

Aware of the difficulties of educating those with severe mental disabilities,

Hoping to provide guidance for nations with these difficulties,

Hereby,

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. "mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,
  2. "severely mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have severe trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,

2. Requires that member nations;
  1. Provide mental ability evaluation service for all children nearing school age, who their caretaker or attending physician has reason to suspect may be mentally challenged,
  2. Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who have the needed skills to deal with students who have mental disabilities,
  3. Provide, to the best of their ability, all mentally challenged students with basic education, either as part of the regular class, or as a separate class taught by a special education teacher,

3. Encourages member nations to set up a training program for the caretakers of the severely mentally challenged students to become accredited instructors for their own children, if they should choose homeschooling.

4. Allows member nations to restrict the mental ability evaluation service to children who are legal residents,

Coauthored by The New European Order


OOC: Since TNEO needs to take an extended leave of absence from NS, we agreed that I would take care of this one and see if it can be passed or not.

First, we think you should consider renaming this proposal, removing the euphemism "challenged."

Second, we think you should remove the definitions section. Any definitions of learning disabilities are bound, at the same time, to be over-inclusive and under-inclusive. Not all children who have "trouble with the attention" are disabled for example, and not all children with learning disabilities would necessarily fit within either of your definitions. It's best, in our view, to leave the definition of terms with individual member states or with an international commission.

Third, given our own experience in the past month, we're worried that this Assembly is irrationally intolerant of homeschooling and, therefore, might oppose this proposal on account of its third section.

EDIT: Fourth, the fourth section of this proposal might run afoul of GenSec precedent.
Last edited by Christian Democrats on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paquador
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Postby Paquador » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:02 pm

We should definitely not use the term 'mentally challenged', it doesn't stick well for me and I would oppose on just those grounds.

I would suggest using the term 'learning difficulties'.

I like the aims of this bill and would support if the terminology is changed to something more suitable.

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Postby Frisbeeteria » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:10 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Since TNEO needs to take an extended leave of absence from NS, we agreed that I would take care of this one

FYI: Araraukar took the time to have this moderator confirmed before risking any accusations of plagiarism. Well done!

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Ledaj
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Postby Ledaj » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:53 pm

I would like to preface my comments with an expression of my sorrow should their usefulness be eclipsed by naivete. I would be extremely thankful if a more knowledgeable member of the community would inform me of this state of affairs, should it occur.

2b. The phrasing 'deal with students' may be seen as dismissive. I would suggest the more formal 'effectively educate students'

If the author accepts the advice of the respected delegate from Christian Democrats, it could be beneficial to standardize the language used to describe minors. The word 'children' is somewhat ambiguous, whereas the term 'minor' is legally defined in most nations.

I hope these meager words can be of some assistance.

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Last edited by Frisbeeteria on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:04 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:EDIT: Fourth, the fourth section of this proposal might run afoul of GenSec precedent.

OOC: Which precedent would that be?



Also OOC: Thank you for all the opinions so far, I'm reading them all and will address them when I write the next version of the draft. Meanwhile, keep 'em coming! :)
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Postby Zenithian » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:47 pm

I find myself agreeing with Christian Democrat's comments regarding the name and definitions. Not all individuals with Mental Disabilities necessarily struggle to concentrate or focus, at times the absolute opposite is true. At times this can actually be quite beneficial for education via Hyper Focus. This is just one example of how mental disabilities are best left not defined, as many scenarios may pop up which come into conflict with your definition.
Last edited by Zenithian on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:43 am

OOC: A general note about the "not everyone mentally challenged is disabled": I know. That's why the definitions include "who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to [need help]". And it's also why I'm reluctant to do away with the definitions.
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Postby Christian Democrats » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:56 am

Araraukar wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:EDIT: Fourth, the fourth section of this proposal might run afoul of GenSec precedent.

OOC: Which precedent would that be?

viewtopic.php?p=31105420#p31105420
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Postby Wallenburg » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:01 am

"I would remove the second definition, as the adjective modifies the noun well enough on its own. Otherwise, I see no immediate problem with this proposal. I will give it a closer look in the next couple days."
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:18 am

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Jarish Inyo
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Postby Jarish Inyo » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:04 am

The Empire will not pay for any mental evaluations. Nor will be be setting up any special programs as we have no individuals that are interested in teaching special needs children. If caretakers wish to take classes to learn to deal with special needs children, then they can find and pay for the specialty private schools. The government will not pay the schools in anyway.
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:47 am

Christian Democrats wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: Which precedent would that be?

viewtopic.php?p=31105420#p31105420

OOC: The opinion essays are always difficult to follow, but in my understanding that basically says "CoCR applies". Which is what the 4th clause reaffirms (EDIT: or is meant to, anyway).

I'll get to the rest of the comments and complaints later, but this one is a potential GenSec illegality, so I need to have that cleared up before there's any sense in proceeding with redrafting.



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Last edited by Araraukar on Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mermaid isle
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Postby Mermaid isle » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:04 am

Araraukar wrote:1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
[list=a][*]"mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education


Does this include depression, anxiety, ADD? Are you suggesting that these students require a special needs teacher (as suggested by clause 2.2)?

You also haven't included mental issues that result in behavioural or social difficulties in the classroom. Consider for example, Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

Araraukar wrote:2. Requires that member nations;

[*]Institute a training program for special education teachers, if such does not already exist, to train education professionals who have the needed skills to deal with students who have mental disabilities,


I'm not a special needs teacher, but part of my teaching training included how to teach students with special needs. Special needs teachers only deal with the severe cases. Also, where required, I have an education assistant in the room who helps the students keep pace with my lesson. This requirement, in the way it is worded, does not allow for those sort of arrangements. Often that is also all that required - see my earlier point about the broadness of your definition of mentally challenged.

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Postby Araraukar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:15 am

Mermaid isle wrote:
Araraukar wrote:1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. "mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education

Does this include depression, anxiety, ADD? Are you suggesting that these students require a special needs teacher (as suggested by clause 2.2)?

OOC: I underlined the relevant part. It depends entirely on each member nation's professionals what they want to classify as "mentally challenged". EDIT: I'll address the other bit later, going to be writing one massive response post as well as an edited draft.
Last edited by Araraukar on Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thyerata » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:35 am

Araraukar wrote:
1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution;
  1. "mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,
  2. "severely mentally challenged student" as a person under the age of majority, who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to have severe trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education,


Since this is an unaltered rehashing of TNEO's original resolution, and since we took exception to the definitions clause there, we see no reason to change our stance...
For RL reasons, I'm very uncomfortable with that definition. I'm autistic (albeit very midly) which can lead to difficulty with attention and communication (see, for example AD/HD, where people can struggle greatly with their attention and communication skills), and if that definition were true, it would mean that I have a "mental disability". I might have a disability, but it's not mental. I strenuously object to a classification that would classify autistic people with those who are truly mentally ill, such as the insane. Additionally, autistic people have difficulty with communication, we can and do - sometimes with quite a lot of support - succeed in education.

For IC purposes, and because of my RL concerns, we are opposed. We would suggest that the author write in some examples of what disabilities would fall under "mentally challenged" or "severely mentally challenged"
Last edited by Thyerata on Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:56 am

OOC post, unless otherwise specified: This post is just about answering people's concerns, no new draft yet. And sorry about the delay, today's social obligations took more time than I anticipated.

Uan aa Boa wrote:I like this and don't find too much to criticise at the moment. When 2c says "to the best of their ability" what does it mean? Do nations have to provide basic education to the best of the nation's ability to do so or the best of the student's ability to receive it?

The nation is required, as far as is possible, based both on the nation's capabilities (think of the different possibilities in the past-modern-future tech scale, not to even mention magic or psychic abilities) and the student's, to provide them the basic education that a previous resolution requires them to provide to non-challenged students. (True, the previous resolution can be read to cover mentally challenged students as well, but the tradition around here is that you can expand on a speciality field of a more general resolution. Otherwise CoCR would've made all later anti-discriminatory resolutions illegal.)

Could I specify that I mean the combination of the nation's ability to provide education and the student's ability to learn? Probably yes, but why should I? GA #80, A Promotion of Basic Education uses the wording "in the fullest possible form", which I think is even more muddled a wording.

tl;dr: 2.c. is purposefully written that way to cover both the capabilities of the nation as well as the individual.

Christian Democrats wrote:First, we think you should consider renaming this proposal, removing the euphemism "challenged."

IC: I think that "mental students act" sounds even worse. What would you recommend? Retarded? Disabled? Both of those words have even worse negative echoes than "challenged".

Second, we think you should remove the definitions section.

Not a change I'm willing to make lightly, as that contains the part "who has been evaluated by medical professionals specialized in mental disabilities to [need help]", which means that a lot of the complaints from others around here, about "do we need to make special classes for depressed people" and other such nonsense, are not applicable, unless their nation's mental disability specialists for some reason want to classify such people as mentally disabled. It also means that each nation can apply it to their population as befitting their population. Remember that not all member nations have human populations, and that not every nation has the latest technology or knowledge about learning disabilities.

Any definitions of learning disabilities are bound, at the same time, to be over-inclusive and under-inclusive.

Hence not even attempting it. I'm leaving it to the member nations' specialists. I'm certainly not a specialist in mental disabilities.

Not all children who have "trouble with the attention" are disabled for example, and not all children with learning disabilities would necessarily fit within either of your definitions.

Never claimed either. See above.

It's best, in our view, to leave the definition of terms with individual member states or with an international commission.

It is being left to the individual member states.

Third, given our own experience in the past month, we're worried that this Assembly is irrationally intolerant of homeschooling and, therefore, might oppose this proposal on account of its third section.

To my knowledge the Assembly was opposed to homeschooling being given free reign to indoctrinate children any which way, rather than providing them with an education bound to the same standards as the public schooling system, not a complete aversion of homeschooling being a possibility in any case. But if it becomes a problem, I can further emphasize the homeschooling needing to stick to the same principles as the publicly available education.

Paquador wrote:We should definitely not use the term 'mentally challenged', it doesn't stick well for me and I would oppose on just those grounds.

IC: Would "retarded" work for you better? Because, let's be honest, that's what the "severely mentally challenged" means.

I would suggest using the term 'learning difficulties'.

But that encompasses a lot more people who are not mentally disabled. Someone with hearing problems is going to have learning difficulties, but that doesn't mean they should be grouped together with those who lack the cognitive capability to ever be able to live unsupervised.

I like the aims of this bill and would support if the terminology is changed to something more suitable.

Using "learning difficulties" is out due to the above reason, so if you have a more specific term in mind, please let me know.

Ledaj wrote:2b. The phrasing 'deal with students' may be seen as dismissive. I would suggest the more formal 'effectively educate students'

But there is a lot more to dealing with mentally disabled students than mere education. Would "handling" work better? I will take this under consideration for the next draft. (I often need to actually see something written to get the "feel" of how well it fits together.)

If the author accepts the advice of the respected delegate from Christian Democrats, it could be beneficial to standardize the language used to describe minors. The word 'children' is somewhat ambiguous, whereas the term 'minor' is legally defined in most nations.

I feel that "children nearing school age" should be comprehensive enough. And the definitions for the mentally challenged students actually do use "under the age of majority". If it becomes a major hurdle, it can be changed, but in my experience the voters tend to respond better to "children" than "minors"...

Zenithian wrote:This is just one example of how mental disabilities are best left not defined, as many scenarios may pop up which come into conflict with your definition.

They are left undefined, leaving the decision-making to the experts of the member nation instead.

Wallenburg wrote:"I would remove the second definition, as the adjective modifies the noun well enough on its own. Otherwise, I see no immediate problem with this proposal."

Since 1.b. mentions "severe" twice, I think it might be necessary to keep it. But I'll try to think of a way to make clause 1 less wordy.

I will give it a closer look in the next couple days."

Thank you. I'll try to come up with a new draft by then, but I can't make promises...

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Why would we be willing to throw education resources into a proverbial firepit? There will be no valuable return on this program."

Obviously because your nation's too rich, Ben. Though you might consider it a saving if you could move all the problematic mentally disabled children into one class, rather than require all of them to have personal assistants in the same classes with the normal kids. You're required to give them an education anyway, due to GA #80. Or you could encourage them to be homeschooled the same way your nation encourages disabled fetuses to be aborted.

Though you did make me realize that I need to include "professional homeschooling" as a possibility to the requirements in clause 2... I might need to default back to an earlier draft, actually, so at least you've given me more food for thought.

Mermaid isle wrote:You also haven't included mental issues that result in behavioural or social difficulties in the classroom.

If your nation's specialists define them as a mental disabilities, feel free to include them.

Consider for example, Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

Isn't that just the politically correct way of saying "temper tantrum"?

Special needs teachers only deal with the severe cases. Also, where required, I have an education assistant in the room who helps the students keep pace with my lesson. This requirement, in the way it is worded, does not allow for those sort of arrangements.

2.c.: "...either as part of the regular class..." Nowhere does it say that you're not allowed to have an education assistant. The special education teacher requirement is reserved for a separate class. I'll see if I can't make that clearer, though.

see my earlier point about the broadness of your definition of mentally challenged.

See my earlier point about me not being the one to make the decision of what counts as mentally challenged.

Thyerata wrote:and since we took exception to the definitions clause there, we see no reason to change our stance...

Likewise:
Araraukar wrote:Point is, if the medical specialists thought you needed extra help to deal with school, you'd get extra help. If they figured that your case was so mild that you didn't, you wouldn't. Surely you'd want extra help, if you needed it?

I'm against any "specific examples" being added because then it easily slides into the underwear category of micromanagement.

Also, calling people with mental illnesses "insane" is far more insulting than putting autism, which is a "pervasive neurological disorder" aka "mind-affecting (mental) disorder", in with the rest of the developmental disorders. I myself am "mentally ill", with depression and anxiety, yet, while I might jokingly refer to myself as insane, I'd probably thwap you if we were face to face and you called me insane because of it.

The word "mental" is not the slang-use of mental (aka "mad") in the draft, but rather it refers to any cognitive abilities -impairing disorders. Reason I didn't use that wording in the rewrite is because larger part of the WA voters will understand "mental" than would understand "cognitive".
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Postby Ledaj » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:16 am

Thank you for your consideration of my humble suggestions, Miss Leverett.
Araraukar wrote:
Ledaj wrote:2b. The phrasing 'deal with students' may be seen as dismissive. I would suggest the more formal 'effectively educate students'

But there is a lot more to dealing with mentally disabled students than mere education. Would "handling" work better? I will take this under consideration for the next draft. (I often need to actually see something written to get the "feel" of how well it fits together.)

If the author accepts the advice of the respected delegate from Christian Democrats, it could be beneficial to standardize the language used to describe minors. The word 'children' is somewhat ambiguous, whereas the term 'minor' is legally defined in most nations.

I feel that "children nearing school age" should be comprehensive enough. And the definitions for the mentally challenged students actually do use "under the age of majority". If it becomes a major hurdle, it can be changed, but in my experience the voters tend to respond better to "children" than "minors"...
To respond to your question, I would agree, and bow to your superior experience with the nuances of phrasing.
At risk of becoming painfully technical, I respond to your justification for the use of the term 'children nearing school age" in two ways:
Firstly, the word 'children' is like the word 'people' in that it generally applies to humans only.
Secondly, while the positive response of voters is necessary to pass a resolution, I do not believe this should be used as a justification to accept unclear or misleading wording.
However I moderate the above concerns by expressing that they are minor at best, and need not affect your wording if you feel otherwise.
Thank you for addressing my concerns,

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Postby Essu Beti » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:33 am

"I would like to contest that, Ambassador Helmsworth," says Iksana, raising his hand. "Children means the young of any sapient species, by my reckoning. Elven children are children, human children are children, pretty sure if there are giant lizard folk out there their children would be children too. And I would very much contest the implication that my species isn't people."
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Postby Ledaj » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:39 am

Essu Beti wrote:"I would like to contest that, Ambassador Helmsworth," says Iksana, raising his hand. "Children means the young of any sapient species, by my reckoning. Elven children are children, human children are children, pretty sure if there are giant lizard folk out there their children would be children too. And I would very much contest the implication that my species isn't people."

I must apologize for my choice of words, delegate. I did not intend to exclude any species from the words 'children' or 'people', but rather to point out that these words do not apply to all species. A relevant example might be the cubs of bears. However I do believe that this point is tangential, and I hope the sponsor of this proposal is not offended by our discussion.

-Ronald Helmsworth, delegate of Ledaj to the General Assembly
Edit: Typo
Last edited by Ledaj on Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Christian Democrats » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:48 pm

Araraukar wrote:

OOC: The opinion essays are always difficult to follow, but in my understanding that basically says "CoCR applies". Which is what the 4th clause reaffirms (EDIT: or is meant to, anyway).

I'll get to the rest of the comments and complaints later, but this one is a potential GenSec illegality, so I need to have that cleared up before there's any sense in proceeding with redrafting.

That your proposal would allow member states to discriminate against the children of unlawful residents in the provision of special education services might be a violation of COCR based on the GenSec precedent on that resolution.

Araraukar wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:First, we think you should consider renaming this proposal, removing the euphemism "challenged."

IC: I think that "mental students act" sounds even worse. What would you recommend? Retarded? Disabled? Both of those words have even worse negative echoes than "challenged".

"Learning Disabilities Act" would be an accurate, non-euphemistic title.

Araraukar wrote:
Any definitions of learning disabilities are bound, at the same time, to be over-inclusive and under-inclusive.

Hence not even attempting it. I'm leaving it to the member nations' specialists. I'm certainly not a specialist in mental disabilities.

But you're not leaving it to the specialists. You're defining a "mentally challenged student" as a student who has "trouble with the attention, communication and understanding required to attend regular basic education."
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