by Roavin » Fri May 19, 2017 3:19 pm
by [violet] » Fri May 19, 2017 8:31 pm
Roavin wrote:1. Are two simultaneous non-API non-restricted queries based on a single user action permissible?
Roavin wrote:2. Is API-usage "per-organization" allowed as opposed to "per-user", and how should this best be reflected in the User-Agent?
Roavin wrote:3. The simultaneity rule applies to restricted actions. Do any similar restrictions exist for non-restricted actions (beyond "be reasonable with our server")?
Roavin wrote:4. Is logging in a restricted action?
Roavin wrote:5. Is it permissible to satisfy the script simultaneity rule by manually spacing out user actions?
Roavin wrote:6. Is editing a dispatch a restricted action?
by Kethania » Sat May 20, 2017 4:05 am
by Leppikania » Sat May 20, 2017 7:51 am
Kethania wrote:[violet] wrote:No. Neither is publishing a dispatch, as it only generates a Happenings line in your own nation.
Does this also apply if a dispatch is pinned in a region?
It is clear that pinning can only be done manually, as it generates a regional happening, but can a script automatically edit already pinned dispatches?
by HMS Unicorn » Sat May 20, 2017 10:36 am
by Roavin » Sat May 20, 2017 2:22 pm
by Chingis » Sun May 21, 2017 12:25 am
by [violet] » Sun May 21, 2017 5:16 pm
Leppikania wrote:[violet] wrote:No. Neither is publishing a dispatch, as it only generates a Happenings line in your own nation.
I asked this question previously, and Ballotonia said it was a restricted action. Could you perhaps discuss that?
Leppikania wrote:And also, publishing a dispatch could generate a happenings line on someone else's notices page.
Roavin wrote:Thanks for the answers! The answer to #2 is a huge relief.
Roavin wrote:[violet] wrote:Yep. Only restricted actions cannot run simultaneously.
I should clarify - the question was phrased poorly. It wasn't necessarily about whether they are allowed to be requested in parallel, but rather if one of those requests would count as scraping (thereby being rate limited) instead of a click, since the user typically couldn't click one button to pull both at the same time on the main site.
Chingis wrote:Following up on Roavin's second question, if two people are running the same script at once, albeit with different UA's, but the scripts don't communicate between each other will it be considered as a "sneaky way of exceeding the rate limit", or is it fine as they're completely separate from each other, with different UA's.
by Roavin » Sun May 21, 2017 6:38 pm
[violet] wrote:Roavin wrote:Thanks for the answers! The answer to #2 is a huge relief.
Note that your UserAgent should accurately identify the user. For example, if you have a tool that you make available for other people to run for their own regions, and what they do with it thereafter has nothing to do with you, make sure their name is going into the UserAgent, too. If we just see a ton of requests all from "Roavin" our first thought will be that they're all you personally.
[violet] wrote:Roavin wrote:
I should clarify - the question was phrased poorly. It wasn't necessarily about whether they are allowed to be requested in parallel, but rather if one of those requests would count as scraping (thereby being rate limited) instead of a click, since the user typically couldn't click one button to pull both at the same time on the main site.
Yes, most certainly. Very possibly both requests would be considered scraping, and subject to rate limiting rules, if the tool is constructing requests itself rather than just modifying the page.
by [violet] » Sun May 21, 2017 8:06 pm
Roavin wrote:Or, any other syntax/information as you want it.
Roavin wrote:The tool I'm imagining would have a button; clicking it would make two non-API requests and display the results from both interleaved/combined. I would add the "userclick" parameter to both requests. In this scenario, would none, one, or both of those requests be subject to the non-API ratelimit?
by HMS Unicorn » Tue May 23, 2017 7:48 pm
[violet] wrote:Leppikania wrote:I asked this question previously, and Ballotonia said it was a restricted action. Could you perhaps discuss that?
I'd forgotten that ruling, sorry, and that stands, but I'll raise it with the team to try to reconcile it.
by Eluvatar » Tue May 23, 2017 7:53 pm
HMS Unicorn wrote:[violet] wrote:I'd forgotten that ruling, sorry, and that stands, but I'll raise it with the team to try to reconcile it.
[violet], can you clarify please: Do both parts of Ballotonia's ruling (about publishing and also about editing dispatches) stand? Or just the part about publishing dispatches that Leppikania referenced?
As I mentioned above, if Ballotonia's ruling about editing dispatches stands, then it also contradicts the response to a GHR I had sent about this exact issue - a GHR that dates after Ballotonia's ruling.
by [violet] » Tue May 23, 2017 8:31 pm
HMS Unicorn wrote:if Ballotonia's ruling about editing dispatches stands, then it also contradicts the response to a GHR I had sent about this exact issue - a GHR that dates after Ballotonia's ruling.
by Eluvatar » Tue May 23, 2017 9:06 pm
by Ballotonia » Wed May 24, 2017 12:30 am
by Roavin » Wed May 24, 2017 5:19 am
[violet] wrote:Roavin wrote:Or, any other syntax/information as you want it.
The idea is to accurately represent what's happening, i.e. who's running the script. Is it a service run by you and used by other people? If so, you are the user. If, however, it's an independent tool that you wrote and handed out and now other people are using for their own ends, they are the user.
I don't use Discord, but I think it's like IRC? In which case the user would be whoever is in charge of that bot, whether that's you, or the channel/server operator. Random Discord users wouldn't be considered the API user; it's unreasonable to expect them to be aware of and follow NS API rules if they're just showing up in a Discord and typing queries. In that scenario, they're more like visitors to a third-party website, and whoever is running the site is the API user.
[violet] wrote:Roavin wrote:The tool I'm imagining would have a button; clicking it would make two non-API requests and display the results from both interleaved/combined. I would add the "userclick" parameter to both requests. In this scenario, would none, one, or both of those requests be subject to the non-API ratelimit?
The question for me is whether the tool is enhancing nation display pages by adding info about a second nation, in which case only the second request could be considered to be generated by the tool, or doing something entirely new, in which case both requests are tool-generated. So it depends on whether the button is more like "click to view a nation and compare yourself to it" or more like "enter two nations and view our analysis."
by [violet] » Wed May 24, 2017 4:50 pm
Roavin wrote:[violet] wrote:The question for me is whether the tool is enhancing nation display pages by adding info about a second nation, in which case only the second request could be considered to be generated by the tool, or doing something entirely new, in which case both requests are tool-generated.
Hmm, this ruling is problematic. Would this also apply for clicks making a single request, then? That is, if a page or tool that is not based on modifications to an existing page (other than page=blank) makes a call to NS, then the rate limit applies even if it's a single request issued on a user click? If this is the case, then wouldn't a variety of existing things, including NS++ and pretty much any NS Android/iOS app, be in violation of script rules?
by Roavin » Wed May 24, 2017 6:32 pm
by [violet] » Wed May 24, 2017 7:02 pm
by Eluvatar » Wed May 24, 2017 9:12 pm
by Roavin » Thu May 25, 2017 7:12 am
by Melqart » Thu May 25, 2017 1:11 pm
by Phydios » Thu May 25, 2017 1:45 pm
Melqart wrote:Another question:
Is API a slow(er) bot or manual work?
If it is manual work, what is the difference between API and templates?
If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you. | Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’James 1:26-27, Matthew 7:21-23
by [violet] » Thu May 25, 2017 4:16 pm
Roavin wrote:This isn't about processing those by the tool, but just for presenting them to the user in ways that the standard activity page reasonably can't.
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