Future of Western Civilization

[Cisairse]

I think the most likely thing is that moral values and demographic situation will continue to degenerate, in which case, I would hope that Western culture can be arrested in its expansion by Russian, East Asian, and other cultural groups. Libertarian individualist values that have pervaded since the 1960's and 70's are a cancer upon the Western world.

And yet I haven't seen another World War since absolutism and totalitarianism stopped being the in thing.

Uh...How do you explain this then?

[SUNTHREIT]

It's starting to go down the drain slowly already. It'll accelerate as time goes by.

Civilisations, like anything, are imperfect in their functioning and don't last forever. You can't trust them not to collapse eventually, the cycle of rise and fall is always present. This has to happen. I can only hope that Western civilisation gets put out of its misery sooner rather than later so we don't have to watch it continue to roll around in its own shit and decline socially, politically, geopolitically, culturally, demographically, economically, militarily and spiritually.

[Patridam]

At this rate, European civilization will be gone and absorbed into Islam within a few decades...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCE_vEdA9WU

[Valrifell]

The West is fine and will continue to be fine for the foreseeable future. Crises will end and a reversion to relative normalcy is inevitable, in terms of practically everything, anything the West faces today is by no means comparable to the existential threats its faced in the past.

Will it change? Things tend to. Does this mean it will end? No, don't be so melodramatic. That's really not helping anything.

[Cisairse]

The West is fine and will continue to be fine for the foreseeable future. Crises will end and a reversion to relative normalcy is inevitable, in terms of practically everything, anything the West faces today is by no means comparable to the existential threats its faced in the past.

Will it change? Things tend to. Does this mean it will end? No, don't be so melodramatic. That's really not helping anything.

What 'existential' threats did the West face in the past that were more severe than those faced right now?

[The Tauri Home-World Command]

Likely to fall since too many regressive UNEDUCATED AND IDIOTIC/IDEOLOGICAL PROLES among us who seem EAGER to CASTRATE/DE-OVULATE themselves in favor & support of those who would GLEEFULLY replace them!
SLIT YOUR OWN THROUT; HOWEVER IDONT OFFER MINE AS WELL!
IT WILL BE A BLOODBATH!

[Valgora]

Likely to fall since too many regressive UNEDUCATED AND IDIOTIC/IDEOLOGICAL PROLES among us who seem EAGER to CASTRATE/DE-OVULATE themselves in favor & support of those who would GLEEFULLY replace them!
SLIT YOUR OWN THROUT; HOWEVER IDONT OFFER MINE AS WELL!
IT WILL BE A BLOODBATH!

What in the hell are you even talking about?

[Liriena]

I think it's fair to say that the West is in the midst of a broad crisis, one that probably won't find a definitive resolution anywhere in the near future. I'd call it an identity crisis first and foremost, in which an existential fear is being fueled by the appearance of new problems, both real and imaginary, which Western societies were not entirely prepared to face.

In the short term, I'm confident that Western civilization will survive, though not necessarily unscathed, specially if more of it succumbs to cowardly cannibalizing itself in the name of comforting nostalgia and fear-induced hatred. But in the long term, even if the establishment manages to cling to power, profound changes will happen, though a part of me believes it will be for the better.

[Liriena]

Likely to fall since too many regressive UNEDUCATED AND IDIOTIC/IDEOLOGICAL PROLES among us who seem EAGER to CASTRATE/DE-OVULATE themselves in favor & support of those who would GLEEFULLY replace them!
SLIT YOUR OWN THROUT; HOWEVER IDONT OFFER MINE AS WELL!
IT WILL BE A BLOODBATH!

What in the hell are you even talking about?

It's "white genocide" nonsense with the serial numbers filed off.

[Liriena]

At this rate, European civilization will be gone and absorbed into Islam within a few decades...

That's delusional. Even now, Muslims make up an extremely small minority of Europe's population, and their birth rates are dropping.

The prevalence of this sort of thinking is a testament to the effectiveness of white supremacist propaganda, not a reflection of reality.

In other words: Wake up, sheeple.

[Ashlak]

My prediction is that in some form or fashion, the current system of neoliberalism will end, seeing how extremely unpopular it is. My hope is that we return to a keynesian/embedded liberalism sort of system.

I don't think the West is going to collapse because muh scary brown people.

[Diopolis]

Correction: You haven't seen another World War since multiple nuclear powers started being a thing. There are plenty of authoritarian countries around. In fact, the largest country in the world is an authoritarian regime.

I didn't say they weren't around I said that "absolutism and totalitarianism stopped being the in thing."
Which they aren't.

If they were then nuclear fire would not deter the maniacs from warring.

The USSR, Maoist china, and North Korea have all started nuclear wars and we're just covering it up!
You can't really claim that absolutism and totalitarianism stopped being the in thing before, at the very earliest, the mid-eighties, which was, last I checked, long after the most recent world war(of the wars I would count as being world wars- seven years war and WWI&II- the last ended in the forties and all were caused by a combination of balance of power politics and historical grievances, not by tyranny. We didn't invade Germany because we were concerned about the state of the European Jewry, after all).

[Diopolis]

My prediction is that in some form or fashion, the current system of neoliberalism will end, seeing how extremely unpopular it is. My hope is that we return to a keynesian/embedded liberalism sort of system.

Doubtful. Firebrand, ridiculous populism is likely to be the end result. Keynesianism isn't terribly popular, and embedded liberalism isn't either. Instead, we're probably looking for some sort of agreement where the elites get to keep their favorite parts of neoliberalism, and the government goes ever deeper into debt to make it look like keynesianism with massive(and, for the most part, utterly useless) public works projects(like Trump's wall).

I don't think the West is going to collapse because muh scary brown people.

Most of the concerns about brown people are misplaced versions of legitimate concerns about low birth-rates.

[Great Minarchistan]

the current system of neoliberalism will end

The system is keynesian already, sweetie. Take the large US federal budget, plus the military keynesianism with the GWOT. Call it neoliberalism shows you either don't know a thing about macroeconomics or that you are kidding. Things aren't different in Europe, with the governments expanding their debt and Mario Draghi managing a neokeynesian policy.

My hope is that we return to a keynesian/embedded liberalism sort of system.

Yeah, implying it is failing since 2000. Great Scott. Nonetheless to say, keynesianism/social-democracy only works when the system is wealthy. Considering the insurmountable amount of debt and the almost zero/negative real GDP growth in Western Nations, more of it won't work.

[Genivaria]

And yet I haven't seen another World War since absolutism and totalitarianism stopped being the in thing.

Uh...How do you explain this then?

You mean that Pact that doesn't exist anymore?

[Valrifell]

The West is fine and will continue to be fine for the foreseeable future. Crises will end and a reversion to relative normalcy is inevitable, in terms of practically everything, anything the West faces today is by no means comparable to the existential threats its faced in the past.

Will it change? Things tend to. Does this mean it will end? No, don't be so melodramatic. That's really not helping anything.

What 'existential' threats did the West face in the past that were more severe than those faced right now?

The collapse of the Roman Empire?
Literal Muslim invasions?
The bubonic plague?
The Mongol hordes?
World War 1?
World War 2?
The immediate aftermath of World War 2?

Yeah, no, a few immigrants aren't going to destroy a civilization that refuses to die.

[Cisairse]

Uh...How do you explain this then?

You mean that Pact that doesn't exist anymore?

The fact that it doesn't exist right now has no bearing on that it continued to exist well after the last world war, which was your chosen metric for the end of totalitarianism being 'the in thing.'

I would agree with Diopolis and say that the earliest you can say would be the mid 1980s when the Soviet Union collapsed, but even then there are still quite a few totalitarianistic governments in Africa and Asia.

What 'existential' threats did the West face in the past that were more severe than those faced right now?

The collapse of the Roman Empire?
Literal Muslim invasions?
The bubonic plague?
The Mongol hordes?
World War 1?
World War 2?
The immediate aftermath of World War 2?

Yeah, no, a few immigrants aren't going to destroy a civilization that refuses to die.

I would make the argument that of those the world wars were not existential and of the rest only the Mongol Empire and plagues really served to threaten the very existence of European life (only the western half of the empire collapsed into a true vacuum, the muslim invasions only affected the border areas of Europe).
I will give you the cold war I suppose.

But at the same time I'd also argue that the now-inevitable destruction of the environment and depletion of the natural resources that are required to feed a growth-dependent economy is far, far more existential than even the Mongol hordes or the plague. Because the Mongols were probably never going to reach Paris, and no disease would actually wipe out an entire population, but if the Earth is depleted there's nothing we can do to stop it.

[The Sauganash Union]

I don't know really. We elected Donald despite not really being in that bad of an economic situation and partially due to outrage that certain people were taking jobs no one else wanted.

We 'elected' Trump because our electoral and party system are both legendarily fucked.

Are you justifying having a semi-legal, quasi-slave, cheap labor force because some Americans don't feel like working for a pittance?

[Sarigen]

I don't know really. We elected Donald despite not really being in that bad of an economic situation and partially due to outrage that certain people were taking jobs no one else wanted.

I disagree. The US is in a really bad economic situation. Something like 80% of that country is low income/worried about income, and research studies are starting to find that the country is returning to a developing class. A study by MIT was actually just released today on the topic: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94726.html , they claim, using objective metrics, that the US is falling to a third world status. Even if you disagree with that, 80% of people struggling to make ends meet is definitely something that I would expect from a third world country, not the USA. That is worse a metric than my city, and my city is regarded as one of the most impoverished cities in Canada (we are like Detroit, our factory is in a long slow death spiral).

A lot of the reason Trump was elected, was out of frustration. Voters feel frustrated by a continuing decline, and they feel that none of the conventional political options can stop that. Trump was a stupid choice in regards to creating that change, and history will show this. I am not scared to death of Trump - unlike many, I realize that he is not the end of the world. However, it is possible to be optimistic, in that he is proof that the voters still have a say in who leads them, which is important, considering that recent reports are indicating that the US is slowly becoming less of a democratic system. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no ... warns.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... a0dd0784f3

Trump, unfortunately, will be the first of many cracks, if things do not change. I watch the US with a lot of worry - I live in Canada, which was once considered the best country in the world to live in. We have slowly declined too, though not as much. My hope for the future, is that we do not become your shadow, but make our own, different way, forward.

[Genivaria]

We 'elected' Trump because our electoral and party system are both legendarily fucked.

Are you justifying having a semi-legal, quasi-slave, cheap labor force because some Americans don't feel like working for a pittance?

I think you quoted the wrong post mate.

[Cisairse]

I don't know really. We elected Donald despite not really being in that bad of an economic situation and partially due to outrage that certain people were taking jobs no one else wanted.

I disagree. The US is in a really bad economic situation. Something like 80% of that country is low income/worried about income, and research studies are starting to find that the country is returning to a developing class. A study by MIT was actually just released today on the topic: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94726.html , they claim, using objective metrics, that the US is falling to a third world status. Even if you disagree with that, 80% of people struggling to make ends meet is definitely something that I would expect from a third world country, not the USA. That is worse a metric than my city, and my city is regarded as one of the most impoverished cities in Canada (we are like Detroit, our factory is in a long slow death spiral).

A lot of the reason Trump was elected, was out of frustration. Voters feel frustrated by a continuing decline, and they feel that none of the conventional political options can stop that. Trump was a stupid choice in regards to creating that change, and history will show this. I am not scared to death of Trump - unlike many, I realize that he is not the end of the world. However, it is possible to be optimistic, in that he is proof that the voters still have a say in who leads them, which is important, considering that recent reports are indicating that the US is slowly becoming less of a democratic system. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no ... warns.html

Trump, unfortunately, will be the first of many cracks, if things do not change. I watch the US with a lot of worry - I live in Canada, which was once considered the best country in the world to live in. We have slowly declined too, though not as much. My hope for the future, is that we do not become your shadow, but make our own, different way, forward.

A person who received less votes than another candidate and was abetted by a hostile foreign power getting into the White House is "proof that the voters still have a say in who leads them?"

How on earth does that make sense?

[Great Minarchistan]

I don't know really. We elected Donald despite not really being in that bad of an economic situation and partially due to outrage that certain people were taking jobs no one else wanted.

Negative real growth since 2000 isn't bad for you?

I didn't even account the population growth, that is growing at 1% a year.

[Socialist Tera]

We will see the rise of the east. The west does not have enough industry for a strong enough future.

[Sarigen]

I disagree. The US is in a really bad economic situation. Something like 80% of that country is low income/worried about income, and research studies are starting to find that the country is returning to a developing class. A study by MIT was actually just released today on the topic: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94726.html , they claim, using objective metrics, that the US is falling to a third world status. Even if you disagree with that, 80% of people struggling to make ends meet is definitely something that I would expect from a third world country, not the USA. That is worse a metric than my city, and my city is regarded as one of the most impoverished cities in Canada (we are like Detroit, our factory is in a long slow death spiral).

A lot of the reason Trump was elected, was out of frustration. Voters feel frustrated by a continuing decline, and they feel that none of the conventional political options can stop that. Trump was a stupid choice in regards to creating that change, and history will show this. I am not scared to death of Trump - unlike many, I realize that he is not the end of the world. However, it is possible to be optimistic, in that he is proof that the voters still have a say in who leads them, which is important, considering that recent reports are indicating that the US is slowly becoming less of a democratic system. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no ... warns.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... a0dd0784f3

Trump, unfortunately, will be the first of many cracks, if things do not change. I watch the US with a lot of worry - I live in Canada, which was once considered the best country in the world to live in. We have slowly declined too, though not as much. My hope for the future, is that we do not become your shadow, but make our own, different way, forward.

A person who received less votes than another candidate and was abetted by a hostile foreign power getting into the White House is "proof that the voters still have a say in who leads them?"

How on earth does that make sense?

Hi, my post was pretty lengthily, and wasn't at all about the electoral college, which is an institution that is centuries of years old. I would recommend making your own thread/responding to a comment discussing that, if you want to discuss that. Did you see any of the other things I wrote? It did take some time to write them, so I was curious. Additionally, Russian collusion, while possible, remains unproven, inclusive, and is completely unrelated to my post. Following my quote, which in your post follows two points completely unrelated to my post, was a citation, that I placed in my post specifically to add strength to my own post.

The point you responded to so incredulously, simply points out:

- Voters this election cycle reported frustration with a lack of representation in Washington, and this is one of the reasons they voted Donald Trump.

He was elected. The end. If you want to challenge the electoral college, or believe that Russia elected him, that is fine, but very unrelated to what I am talking about. Those are heavy topics, that are very much not what I was talking about. They are highly interesting though, perhaps make your own thread to discuss with people who care?

In the future, please understand that changing the topic on someone is rude, in verbal conversation, and in a forum, where it takes time to write a post.

Thank you.

I put my entire post, minus your quote which is labelled "redacted", into the aforementioned spoiler, so you can read what you missed, in case this was simply a misunderstanding, as would be possible if you missed the rest of my post. In case that is the situation here, I have kindly provided my post again for you here:

I disagree. The US is in a really bad economic situation. Something like 80% of that country is low income/worried about income, and research studies are starting to find that the country is returning to a developing class. A study by MIT was actually just released today on the topic: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94726.html , they claim, using objective metrics, that the US is falling to a third world status. Even if you disagree with that, 80% of people struggling to make ends meet is definitely something that I would expect from a third world country, not the USA. That is worse a metric than my city, and my city is regarded as one of the most impoverished cities in Canada (we are like Detroit, our factory is in a long slow death spiral).

A lot of the reason Trump was elected, was out of frustration. Voters feel frustrated by a continuing decline, and they feel that none of the conventional political options can stop that. Trump was a stupid choice in regards to creating that change, and history will show this. I am not scared to death of Trump - unlike many, I realize that he is not the end of the world. However, it is possible to be optimistic, in that he is [REDACTED] which is important, considering that recent reports are indicating that the US is slowly becoming less of a democratic system. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no ... warns.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... a0dd0784f3

Trump, unfortunately, will be the first of many cracks, if things do not change. I watch the US with a lot of worry - I live in Canada, which was once considered the best country in the world to live in. We have slowly declined too, though not as much. My hope for the future, is that we do not become your shadow, but make our own, different way, forward.

[San Marlindo]

If you're worried about the future of your civilization, abandon it.

Simple, no?