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Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
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Imaght Otustualvapti
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Apr 07, 2017
Ex-Nation

slaves

Postby Imaght Otustualvapti » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:58 am

I would like to bring back slavery. I'm not saying forced slavery but we could make the homeless our slaves and then they get food and water, a place to sleep, clean clothes. I hope you take this into consideration thankyou

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The Greater Siriusian Domain
Diplomat
 
Posts: 920
Founded: Mar 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Siriusian Domain » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:20 pm

OOC:
Well then, write a proposal about it. At the moment, you just have a bloggy single-line request that would never pass for a legal GA proposal.

Though I'm pretty sure few people would vote for this.
Last edited by The Greater Siriusian Domain on Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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This nation's factbook supersedes NS stats and issues, but does not completely replace them. If there is a conflict, the Factbook is correct.

Isentran has been DENOUNCED for proposing legislation that would destroy the economy of the Greater Siriusian Domain
The Greater Siriusian Domain is a borderline Class Z9 Civilization according to this scale

Primary Ambassador: Teran Saber, Male Siriusian. Snarky, slightly arrogant.
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Grays Harbor
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18496
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:28 pm

Resolution #23
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

Head of the Grays Harbor WA delegation: Sir Henry Rodut, OHE, GHC
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Chus Kruthe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 128
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Chus Kruthe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:00 pm

(Ambassador Samuel Willis struck with passion on the legislation quickly rises to his feet, the anger present in his voice).
"Setting aside the obvious violation of human rights and the questionable drafting of this legislation we must look at how this will impact the labor force. If you allow for slavery the price of free laborers is undercut dramatically and people lose their jobs, and under this legislation would become homeless and then enter into slavery! My nation is known for being pro-business but even that has its stopping points, what good is business without a large consumer base? This proposal would alter the labor economy and by extension the entire world economy in a horrible way. What is proposed here is a bill that would allow for unemployment to sky rocket to levels we have not seen in ages."

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Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3737
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:00 pm

Grays Harbor wrote:Resolution #23


...will need repeal before any such proposal would be legal. Until then, by all means write your draft, but be forewarned that if submitted prior to the successful repeal of GAR #23, it will be held for contradiction.
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Bakhton
Diplomat
 
Posts: 525
Founded: Dec 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Bakhton » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:06 pm

"Not only do we obviously stand opposed to this legislation," says Mr. Jeffrey, temporarily standing in for Ambassador Qzu, "I have formally put in an inquiry to add your nation to the LIST OF NATIONS NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH AT RISK OF YOUR POLICAL CAREER, otherwise known as the LONNTAWAROYPC."
Last edited by Bakhton on Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Federated Kingdom
Diplomat
 
Posts: 905
Founded: Oct 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:08 pm

"The Albyienic delegation supports this plan wholeheartedly."
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Chus Kruthe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 128
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Chus Kruthe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:11 pm

Federated Kingdom wrote:
"The Albyienic delegation supports this plan wholeheartedly."

(Samuel Willis rises slowly to ask a question)"With all due respect Chus Kruthe would like to hear why you support this. None in our delegation can figure out any cause for supporting this legislation."

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Federated Kingdom
Diplomat
 
Posts: 905
Founded: Oct 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:21 pm

Chus Kruthe wrote:
Federated Kingdom wrote:
"The Albyienic delegation supports this plan wholeheartedly."

(Samuel Willis rises slowly to ask a question)"With all due respect Chus Kruthe would like to hear why you support this. None in our delegation can figure out any cause for supporting this legislation."

"As the last slavery-dedicated storefront has not been active in two months, new solutions to promote the slaving market when it comes to the global economy are always required."
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Chus Kruthe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 128
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Chus Kruthe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:24 pm

Federated Kingdom wrote:
Chus Kruthe wrote:(Samuel Willis rises slowly to ask a question)"With all due respect Chus Kruthe would like to hear why you support this. None in our delegation can figure out any cause for supporting this legislation."

"As the last slavery-dedicated storefront has not been active in two months, new solutions to promote the slaving market when it comes to the global economy are always required."

"I'd remind the honorable ambassador that slavery is banned under prior resolutions in this assembly. Is the ambassador saying his nation has active slave markets in violation of international law? This delegation is gravely concerned that in spite of prior legislation member nations are still practicing slavery, and would even admit to such on the floor of this Assembly."
Last edited by Chus Kruthe on Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Federated Kingdom
Diplomat
 
Posts: 905
Founded: Oct 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:30 pm

Chus Kruthe wrote:
Federated Kingdom wrote:
"As the last slavery-dedicated storefront has not been active in two months, new solutions to promote the slaving market when it comes to the global economy are always required."

"I'd remind the honorable ambassador that slavery is banned under prior resolutions in this assembly. Is the ambassador saying his nation has active slave markets in violation of international law? This delegation is gravely concerned that in spite of prior legislation member nations are still practicing slavery, and would even admit to such on the floor of this Assembly."

"We merely promote economic growth."
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Chus Kruthe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 128
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Chus Kruthe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:36 pm

Federated Kingdom wrote:
Chus Kruthe wrote:"I'd remind the honorable ambassador that slavery is banned under prior resolutions in this assembly. Is the ambassador saying his nation has active slave markets in violation of international law? This delegation is gravely concerned that in spite of prior legislation member nations are still practicing slavery, and would even admit to such on the floor of this Assembly."

"We merely promote economic growth."

"But slavery is directly contradictory to that end goal. To boost economic growth you need consumption as well as production, when you begin to use free labor you reduce your consumption base, resulting in a useless increase in production as you lack sufficient consumption. Slavery hurts economic growth because you limit your consumption base to increase production, which except in a handful of rare scenarios, results in wasted production. Someone has to buy what you make and when you use forced free labor the number of buyers drops, not only by the number of slaves you have but also by the number of paid workers put out of work but the cheap free labor, both groups can no longer consume the produced goods. Slavery results in unsustainable and wasted production gains."

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Federated Kingdom
Diplomat
 
Posts: 905
Founded: Oct 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:43 pm

Chus Kruthe wrote:
Federated Kingdom wrote:
"We merely promote economic growth."

"But slavery is directly contradictory to that end goal. To boost economic growth you need consumption as well as production, when you begin to use free labor you reduce your consumption base, resulting in a useless increase in production as you lack sufficient consumption. Slavery hurts economic growth because you limit your consumption base to increase production, which except in a handful of rare scenarios, results in wasted production. Someone has to buy what you make and when you use forced free labor the number of buyers drops, not only by the number of slaves you have but also by the number of paid workers put out of work but the cheap free labor, both groups can no longer consume the produced goods. Slavery results in unsustainable and wasted production gains."

"Slaves are consumers too."
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Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Calladan » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:45 pm

Chus Kruthe wrote:
Federated Kingdom wrote:
"The Albyienic delegation supports this plan wholeheartedly."

(Samuel Willis rises slowly to ask a question)"With all due respect Chus Kruthe would like to hear why you support this. None in our delegation can figure out any cause for supporting this legislation."


While My Tri-Arch and I do not support this in the slightest - not even a little bit - there is arguably a case that it drives down prices (people no longer need to buy food or drink or anything - they get everything from the government who could pretty much nationalise whatever they want), it would cut the price of government contracts (if we did not have to pay our workforce we would be able to put in a LOT lower bids for almost everything), it would cut down on spiralling birth rates (splitting up marries couples means less sex and fewer kids), it would introduce a whole new group of workers (if we abandoned the idiotic child labour laws), would probably fix the housing crisis (build shacks near the places they work), the public transport system (everyone sleeps at the work place) and would fix the budget crisis over night (since everyone is a slave they are not permitted to own property, money or anything else, so all of that gets sold off on the international market and the money goes to the government).

Quite honestly I think it would pretty much solve every problem a government could have - providing you could overlook your morals, ethics and general decency and humanity and be willing to live in The Quor'toth once you pass beyond the veil.

However - as I said - since My Tri-Arch, my entire government and I are not the type of people who can do that, we would never countenance such a suggestion. We find the idea appalling and offensive, and while I can give you reasons why it would be a good idea that is only because I have a VERY good imagination :)
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Chus Kruthe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 128
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Chus Kruthe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:47 pm

Federated Kingdom wrote:
Chus Kruthe wrote:"But slavery is directly contradictory to that end goal. To boost economic growth you need consumption as well as production, when you begin to use free labor you reduce your consumption base, resulting in a useless increase in production as you lack sufficient consumption. Slavery hurts economic growth because you limit your consumption base to increase production, which except in a handful of rare scenarios, results in wasted production. Someone has to buy what you make and when you use forced free labor the number of buyers drops, not only by the number of slaves you have but also by the number of paid workers put out of work but the cheap free labor, both groups can no longer consume the produced goods. Slavery results in unsustainable and wasted production gains."

"Slaves are consumers too."

"How though slaves by definition are not compensated a reasonable sum for their labor. They may get a small allowance to survive but not enough to merit consumer status, merely buying a bit of water and bread to not die does not make you consumer, not in modern economy. You must make purchases beyond the bare essentials in order to be considered a consumer under a rational modern definition."

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Federated Kingdom
Diplomat
 
Posts: 905
Founded: Oct 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:50 pm

Chus Kruthe wrote:
Federated Kingdom wrote:
"Slaves are consumers too."

"How though slaves by definition are not compensated a reasonable sum for their labor. They may get a small allowance to survive but not enough to merit consumer status, merely buying a bit of water and bread to not die does not make you consumer, not in modern economy. You must make purchases beyond the bare essentials in order to be considered a consumer under a rational modern definition."

"The slave owner provides for their slaves, and therefore consumes on their behalf."
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Cuprum
Senator
 
Posts: 3664
Founded: Jun 21, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Cuprum » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:52 pm

Calladan wrote:
Chus Kruthe wrote:(Samuel Willis rises slowly to ask a question)"With all due respect Chus Kruthe would like to hear why you support this. None in our delegation can figure out any cause for supporting this legislation."


While My Tri-Arch and I do not support this in the slightest - not even a little bit - there is arguably a case that it drives down prices (people no longer need to buy food or drink or anything - they get everything from the government who could pretty much nationalise whatever they want), it would cut the price of government contracts (if we did not have to pay our workforce we would be able to put in a LOT lower bids for almost everything), it would cut down on spiralling birth rates (splitting up marries couples means less sex and fewer kids), it would introduce a whole new group of workers (if we abandoned the idiotic child labour laws), would probably fix the housing crisis (build shacks near the places they work), the public transport system (everyone sleeps at the work place) and would fix the budget crisis over night (since everyone is a slave they are not permitted to own property, money or anything else, so all of that gets sold off on the international market and the money goes to the government).

Quite honestly I think it would pretty much solve every problem a government could have - providing you could overlook your morals, ethics and general decency and humanity and be willing to live in The Quor'toth once you pass beyond the veil.

However - as I said - since My Tri-Arch, my entire government and I are not the type of people who can do that, we would never countenance such a suggestion. We find the idea appalling and offensive, and while I can give you reasons why it would be a good idea that is only because I have a VERY good imagination :)


Interesting point of view but i prefer a minarchist state instead.

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Chus Kruthe
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 128
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Chus Kruthe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:56 pm

Federated Kingdom wrote:
Chus Kruthe wrote:"How though slaves by definition are not compensated a reasonable sum for their labor. They may get a small allowance to survive but not enough to merit consumer status, merely buying a bit of water and bread to not die does not make you consumer, not in modern economy. You must make purchases beyond the bare essentials in order to be considered a consumer under a rational modern definition."

"The slave owner provides for their slaves, and therefore consumes on their behalf."

"But not enough to merit consumer status. They provide so little that the consumption wouldn't be enough to have any measurable economic impact. It wouldn't be enough consumption to sustain the system. Slavery just is not economically viable. We are very pro-business in Chus Kruthe and very pro-growth, what little we spend on welfare mostly goes to financing private sector growth, but even we see slavery as an economic time bomb."

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Imaght Otustualvapti
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Apr 07, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Imaght Otustualvapti » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:24 pm

The Greater Siriusian Domain wrote:OOC:
Well then, write a proposal about it. At the moment, you just have a bloggy single-line request that would never pass for a legal GA proposal.

Though I'm pretty sure few people would vote for this.

could you help me develop one I'm new at this?

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Prusselanden
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7998
Founded: Oct 29, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Prusselanden » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:25 pm

This nation cannot again stand to be half slave and half free
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Grays Harbor
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18496
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Imaght Otustualvapti wrote:
The Greater Siriusian Domain wrote:OOC:
Well then, write a proposal about it. At the moment, you just have a bloggy single-line request that would never pass for a legal GA proposal.

Though I'm pretty sure few people would vote for this.

could you help me develop one I'm new at this?


In case it was missed:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
Grays Harbor wrote:Resolution #23


...will need repeal before any such proposal would be legal. Until then, by all means write your draft, but be forewarned that if submitted prior to the successful repeal of GAR #23, it will be held for contradiction.


This is not just a suggestion, you cannot make slavery legal when there is a very specific resolution already in force making it illegal. Any proposal which is deemed in direct contradiction of previous legislation is automatically illegal and cannot be voted on.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

Head of the Grays Harbor WA delegation: Sir Henry Rodut, OHE, GHC
3-2-1 lets jam

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Novistania
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Oct 28, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Novistania » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:09 am

W e w i l l m a k e t h e h o m e l e s s o u r s l a v e s .

This is gold.

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Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5078
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:53 pm

Novistania wrote:W e w i l l m a k e t h e h o m e l e s s o u r s l a v e s .

This is gold.


OOC:
This thread is 3 years old. Most of the people in it, including the OP, have CTE'd why did you dredge it up?
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