[violet], can we PLEASE shorten Update?

[Frisbeeteria]

So, it has been since November that we had a discussion about the length of the Major Update. While Minor Update, at ~90 minutes, is still relatively annoying, it pales in comparison to Major Update. In recent days, it has been consistently ticking back up to the ~150 minute mark, resulting in longer and more exhausting major updates for both sides. Back in November, [v] mentioned that she suspected the main culprit for this was still at large, but she did make some minor changes to bring update time down a little. I'll note that this is a long-standing issue that we've really gotten no clear answer on for quite some time, even though Admin has stated for a while that they're working on it or that their ideal update time is ~60

I'll be fair, it did bring update time down a little, but it has since again risen to its old levels, with no indication being provided that it has any sign of going back down again. It'd be really great to get some sort of reply from Admin on this matter, whether it be another temporary band-aid on the situation until the problem is resolved, a timeline for when we can expect update to be of a more manageable length again, or at the very least some sort of update on the situation from their end.

[Ikania]

Gotta back this up. Staying up till 1 is fair enough, 1:20 is typically my max on a weeknight. But dragging out major up till 2am and beyond is just crazy. I can't imagine how it is for other time zones ahead of me, either.

[Red Dusk]

Also gonna chime in here, it's brutal when you've got to be around for 2 hours or more, especially for some of those later updating regions. Would really appreciate update being brought back to its ~60 minute mark.

[Switz The Raider]

All for. Last time I was out tagging, I was on radio silence. For one hour. Major is wayyyy too long for most of our tastes and schedules (also known as sleep)

[Escade]

I would like to be involved more in R\D and shortening update time would help!

[Somy DMs KWV incessantly at update as he]

Can agree, I would love for something to be done, even if it's database optimization to shorten the times.

[Socio Polor]

With the experience I had as a raider, I can imagine how tiring a near 2 hour major can be, some raiders on my end were even discussing this on our skype channel on how profoundly long updates been.

[Frisbeeteria]

even if it's database optimization to shorten the times.

The parts of the site that get updated aren't in a database. It's kludgy 2002 code with lots of little fixes.

[Vincent Drake]

Seconds Ago: Drake begged for major update to be shorter as he relocated from Gameplay to Technical.

We had another discussion on this, too. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=402244

At that time, I was told that increased site activity, especially bots, were to blame. That was when Major was still just edging toward the 2 hour mark, now it has been consistently over, with one of them the other night hitting 2 hours, 18 min. Updates are even longer for officers/commanders, as you have pre and post update responsibilities that can easily add an additional hour to the time you need to be around.

Has the situation changed at all? It kind of sucks to tell people, hey, we have a defense in an hour 30 minutes, please stick around...yeah...even a reduction back to 90 min would be yuuuuge.

[Unibot III]

When we switched to the new server, I recall [violet] saying that the server's update speed was being artificially slowed down to accommodate R/D. Could the update speed be dropped then? A 15 millisecond/nation reduction would keep update humming at minor (1 hour) and major (1.5 hour.)

[Jakker]

I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but what about moving update an hour earlier? While this will not necessarily solve this problem and comes with some downsides, it is an easy solution to mitigating some of the effects if shortening the update is not possible/sustainable.

[Ikania]

I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but what about moving update an hour earlier? While this will not necessarily solve this problem and comes with some downsides, it is an easy solution to mitigating some of the effects if shortening the update is not possible/sustainable.

Would probably make it easier for everyone on our side of the world, and fuck over the Europeans a little bit more.

[Glen-Rhodes]

even if it's database optimization to shorten the times.

The parts of the site that get updated aren't in a database. It's kludgy 2002 code with lots of little fixes.

Ideally, this would change and everything would be added to a database. But it's also understandable that NS devs are more interested in adding new features, than converting all that data.

An alternative would be to decouple R/D from the update timing altogether. I have a feeling this has been discussed before, though.

[Escade]

I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but what about moving update an hour earlier? While this will not necessarily solve this problem and comes with some downsides, it is an easy solution to mitigating some of the effects if shortening the update is not possible/sustainable.

Would probably make it easier for everyone on our side of the world, and fuck over the Europeans a little bit more.

Update at 11PM EST would be epic.

[Mallorea and Riva]

The parts of the site that get updated aren't in a database. It's kludgy 2002 code with lots of little fixes.

Ideally, this would change and everything would be added to a database. But it's also understandable that NS devs are more interested in adding new features, than converting all that data.

An alternative would be to decouple R/D from the update timing altogether. I have a feeling this has been discussed before, though.

Feel free to look it up and bring up a new thread if you can't find an old one on the topic to discuss it.

Would probably make it easier for everyone on our side of the world, and fuck over the Europeans a little bit more.

Update at 11PM EST would be epic.

For you, perhaps. For other users, not so much maybe. We aren't looking to make life great for one time zone at the expense of all others, any change on this matter will impact every gameplayer and that needs to be taken into account.

[[violet]]

Okay! I hear your pain.

I've added an invasive sampling profiler to the daily update. This means it will run a bit slower now (hopefully not too much) as it gathers data on exactly what's taking so long. Then I can remove the profiler and use that knowledge to fix the slowest parts.

[The Glorious Hypetrain]

Okay! I hear your pain.

I've added an invasive sampling profiler to the daily update. This means it will run a bit slower now (hopefully not too much) as it gathers data on exactly what's taking so long. Then I can remove the profiler and use that knowledge to fix the slowest parts.

Awesome! How long should we expect this profiler to run?

[The Blaatschapen]

Ideally, this would change and everything would be added to a database. But it's also understandable that NS devs are more interested in adding new features, than converting all that data.

An alternative would be to decouple R/D from the update timing altogether. I have a feeling this has been discussed before, though.

Feel free to look it up and bring up a new thread if you can't find an old one on the topic to discuss it.

Update at 11PM EST would be epic.

For you, perhaps. For other users, not so much maybe. We aren't looking to make life great for one time zone at the expense of all others, any change on this matter will impact every gameplayer and that needs to be taken into account.

I am personally of the opinion that updates should not be fixed to a specific starting hour everyday (eg. have update every 13 hours). Thus it would people who are now left out because the update times do not fit their timezones to be able to play at least a few times per week.

But that would be a different topic (and one where naturally the current GP crowd is against since it is either ideal for them or they've made it work somehow).

[Vaculatestar64]

Ideally, this would change and everything would be added to a database. But it's also understandable that NS devs are more interested in adding new features, than converting all that data.

An alternative would be to decouple R/D from the update timing altogether. I have a feeling this has been discussed before, though.

Feel free to look it up and bring up a new thread if you can't find an old one on the topic to discuss it.

Update at 11PM EST would be epic.

For you, perhaps. For other users, not so much maybe. We aren't looking to make life great for one time zone at the expense of all others, any change on this matter will impact every gameplayer and that needs to be taken into account.

Come on Mall. You know better. Midnight pretty much sucks to be up at unless it's a weekend or you live in PST/PDT. Even myself in central kind of dislikes an 11 PM update, though I guess my Canadian equivalent (province of Sasketchewan) doesn't mind during DST since they don't observe it. Anyways back on topic. an 11 PM EST/EDT update would mean people could stay up with the update easier, this may not have been a big deal back when update was ONLY an hour long (how I miss those days ) But now update lasts like what, two hours? Which means for east coast people, that 1.5 to 2 hours is a no go because for them that's extremely late, really the only people that can are the PST people and people who live in Saskatchewan during DST. Though I will admit, the Europeans and such who have somehow found a way to make it work (hats off to y'all) might be affected, but on the whole I think it might be a good change, unless of course y'all find a way to get update times shortened again.

[Chelvo]

I have to disagree here.
I live in GMT+1, so the update going that long is highly relaxing for me. Just recruit more europeans which can take care of the later updates for you.

[Tim-Opolis]

Okay! I hear your pain.

I've added an invasive sampling profiler to the daily update. This means it will run a bit slower now (hopefully not too much) as it gathers data on exactly what's taking so long. Then I can remove the profiler and use that knowledge to fix the slowest parts.

Thanks [v]! Any timeline on how long the profiler will be doing its data collection for?

[[violet]]

Awesome! How long should we expect this profiler to run?

That depends how informative it is. If it reveals something easily fixed that makes a big difference, one or two runs may be enough. But more likely we'll have to iterate a few times.

[[violet]]

Well that was interesting! Profiling revealed a problem with a cache, which wasn't bad enough to be very noticeable under normal conditions, but was probably a significant brake on performance during daily update, when every nation & region in the world is examined in quick succession.

We normally expect to pull close to 100% of nations & regions from the cache, but during the update it was running at closer to 50%.

I've rebuilt and will run the next few daily updates with no profiling to give the cache a chance to fill up and see what difference it makes.

[[violet]]

Minor was about 10% faster but Major was a very long one (128 minutes), so I'm reactivating the invasive profiler for the next couple of runs.

[Balochistan and New York]

Minor was about 10% faster but Major was a very long one (128 minutes), so I'm reactivating the invasive profiler for the next couple of runs.

Are you paid for your services? Also is violet your favourite colour?