Irish Politics Thread: Stormont talks collapse

[Socialist Mercanda]

This thread is about politics in Ireland. Several major issues face Ireland today, such as Irish Water, Abortion/Eight Amendment and the national debate on whether or not Mick Wallace will wear something other than his pink shirt and jeans for once.

For those unfamiliar with Irish political parties, here are the ones represented in the Dáil:

Fine Gael - The senior coalition partner in a minority coalition government. Was in second place in every since election since the 1930s until 2011. Centrist, moderate party. Enjoys ripping money out of people's hands to spend on 'innovative' (shit and bad) things like Eircode. 50 seats.

Fianna Fáil - used to always be in power until 2011. Provides confidence and supply in the minority coalition. Very vague, centrist, populist and what may be known as a 'catch all' party, as Wikipedia puts it. Capitalist! Against water charges, the saints. 44 seats.

Sinn Féin - Legitimately used to be terrorists (They were the IRA). Left wing populist republicans (Republicans believe in unification of Ireland). Often captures the mood of the Nation, like in the late 2014 backlash against water charges or the recent McCabe/Tusla scandal. Lead by a former terrorist Gerry Adams and crazy woman Mary Lou McDonald. 23 seats. And they are the major republican party in NI as well!

Labour - Fighting for the working class! That is until 2011 when it entered yet another coalition with Fine Gael, and effectively sacrificed all support as it abandoned it's people. Was the second largest party in 2011, now far from that. 7 seats.

Social Democrats - Disgruntled former Labour TD and an independent. Name says all. 2 seats.

AAA-PBP. Alliance of far left socialists. 6 seats. Against austerity and water charges and all that shit.

WUA. 1 seat. Socialists.

Green Party. Believes all trees should be chopped down, obviously, it's in the name. Nah, left-wing Greens as usual. 2 seats.

Independents 4 Change isn't a party but a group of 4 left wing independents. 4 seats.

And a handful of independents.

Issues facing the nation:
- Fine Gael's plummeting poll numbers; and the rise of SF
- Brexit and it's impact on Ireland
- Abortion and the Eight Amendment
- many others

No matter who you are, where your from or how little knowledge of Irish politics you have, please join in and discuss !

source: http://www.thejournal.ie/no-confidence-3236853-Feb2017/

SINN FÉIN HAS published its motion of no confidence in the Government, which calls on the Taoiseach and all the Cabinet ministers to resign.
Sinn Féin published the motion this morning and it is due to be voted on in the Dáil on Thursday.
The party announced over the weekend that it had submitted the motion in the wake of the controversy surrounding garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe.
“People the length and breadth of Ireland are rightly outraged by what has transpired over the course of the last week,” said Sinn Féin deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald.
“The government is clearly unable to deal with the major issues facing our people.
“The behaviour of government, particularly over the last week, has eroded public confidence in this coalition in the most fundamental and profound ways.”
The text of the motion reads that the failure of Government ministers “to protect the interests of Garda McCabe” went to “the very heart of the integrity of this Government”.
Sinn Féin has called for all opposition TDs to support the motion on Thursday.
For Fine Gael to survive the motion they will need Fianna Fáil to abstain from the vote.
Fianna Fáil members yesterday said that they would abstain from voting and that the decision will be formally ratified by the party at its meeting tomorrow.
However, now a full-scale political storm is also brewing between the two parties, with both Jim O’Callaghan and Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald having two completely separate versions of a conversation that took place between them on Wednesday evening.
A clear division has emerged between the two parties over whether or not Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald knew about the issues between Tusla and Maurice McCabe before last Thursday’s Prime Time broadcast.

Basically, if you don't know what is happening here in Ireland, the Garda Siochana (our police) whistleblower scandal blew up again after it became to light how the government handled the whole situation - Child protection agency Tulsa filed a false report labelling the whistleblower a child abuser, and now there's a whole new scandal and debate over whether or not the government was aware of it.

Sinn Féin, our third largest party (Left-wing nationalists), filed a motion of no confidence against the government. It is technically the main opposition to Fine Gael, which is governing in a minority coalition, after Fianna Fail provides support for the government. For the motion to pass, at least 2 TDs (our MPs) need to defect from the government coalition or Fianna Fail and vote against the motion, as currently it stands 57-56 as Fianna Fail (44 TDs) are abstaining.

In my opinion, the FG government is at it's end. Even if they survive the motion of no confidence, it's only a downward spiral from there. Already FG is polling far behind FF - It's at 21 points in the Sunday Times poll, against FF's 32, which for Fianna Fáil is great news, as ever since it lost power after decades of dominance in 2011, it has usually been trailing FG or barely leading. And there's no guarantee that all FF TD's will abstain either. Public pressure is mounting against the government, and I can already foresee members of government having their political careers ended - Zappone definitely, and Frances Fitzgerald is acting like she wants to have her career guillotined. I would support a motion of no confidence - It's about time we kick FG out, and bring Fianna Fáil in.

So, as the Irish government speeds towards it's end, what do you take on the issue NSG?

[Bakery Hill]

So Fine Gael tried to frame this whistleblower? Or at least that's what everyone thinks?

[Philjia]

For a moment I was confused, until I realised this was the ROI parliament, and not the Northern Irish parliament, which is also in deep shit.

[Socialist Mercanda]

So Fine Gael tried to frame this whistleblower? Or at least that's what everyone thinks?

Basically, yes. And now the public are outraged, Sinn Féins pushing for an election because they foresee themselves ruling in a coalition with Fianna Fáil probably, and Fianna Fáil is claiming all it's 44 TD's will abstain from the no confidence motion for some reason, although I presume it's to ride the public wave of anger in hopes of a even bigger bump in polls (It's claiming they will abstain because a new election will delay an investigation).

[Bakery Hill]

So Fine Gael tried to frame this whistleblower? Or at least that's what everyone thinks?

Basically, yes. And now the public are outraged, Sinn Féins pushing for an election because they foresee themselves ruling in a coalition with Fianna Fáil probably, and Fianna Fáil is claiming all it's 44 TD's will abstain from the no confidence motion for some reason, although I presume it's to ride the public wave of anger in hopes of a even bigger bump in polls (It's claiming they will abstain because a new election will delay an investigation).

Would an SF-FF coalition work?

[Proctopeo]

That's certainly interesting. Let's hope that this isn't a complete disaster.


Side note: I was confused by your flag, OP, until I looked up the Irish Constitution, then it all made sense.

[Genivaria]

The Irish just legalized marijuana and now their government is about to collapse.
I think we can all see the connection here.

[Socialist Mercanda]

The Irish just legalized marijuana and now their government is about to collapse.
I think we can all see the connection here.

We didn't legalize marijuana?

That's certainly interesting. Let's hope that this isn't a complete disaster.


Side note: I was confused by your flag, OP, until I looked up the Irish Constitution, then it all made sense.

Eh, it's already a disaster.

Basically, yes. And now the public are outraged, Sinn Féins pushing for an election because they foresee themselves ruling in a coalition with Fianna Fáil probably, and Fianna Fáil is claiming all it's 44 TD's will abstain from the no confidence motion for some reason, although I presume it's to ride the public wave of anger in hopes of a even bigger bump in polls (It's claiming they will abstain because a new election will delay an investigation).

Would an SF-FF coalition work?

Oh god no

[Bakery Hill]

Oh god no

Do they really think it will? They'd bleed support like nothing else if they went into coalition with a rightist party like FF.

[Socialist Mercanda]

Oh god no

Do they really think it will? They'd bleed support like nothing else if they went into coalition with a rightist party like FF.

FF isn't really right wing. A lot of our party's are rather vague on where they stand on the spectrum - Except for the obvious SF, Labour etc. Well, they wouldn't lose support IMHO. Usually junior coalition parties in Ireland fare alright, with the exception of Labour when it went into coalition with Fine Gael, which ended in 2016. But that was a whole different issue - Labour was just pure shit.

Id think a coalition could be feasible. Their numbers in polls combined amounts to about 51% support in the latest sunday times poll. On paper, a coalition would work. But in reality, no.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Boy, my home island is a barrel of political stability, both north and south.

[Proctopeo]

That's certainly interesting. Let's hope that this isn't a complete disaster.


Side note: I was confused by your flag, OP, until I looked up the Irish Constitution, then it all made sense.

Eh, it's already a disaster.

Doesn't seem to be a complete disaster quite yet. Hopefully it never reaches that.

[Genivaria]

The Irish just legalized marijuana and now their government is about to collapse.
I think we can all see the connection here.

We didn't legalize marijuana?

TO legalize marijuana, a detail.

[Ifreann]

It'll be grand. They'll have a public enquiry, FF will vote confidence in the government, and maybe a few heads will roll once its established who officially knew what and when.

[Frank Zipper]

Boy, my home island is a barrel of political stability, both north and south.

Though to be fair, most places are starting to seem that way lately.

[Dumb Ideologies]

We're still not going to take you back.

[Ifreann]

We're still not going to take you back.

We're willing to take you back if you change your mind about Brexitting.

[The Grene Knyght]

Basically, yes. And now the public are outraged, Sinn Féins pushing for an election because they foresee themselves ruling in a coalition with Fianna Fáil probably, and Fianna Fáil is claiming all it's 44 TD's will abstain from the no confidence motion for some reason, although I presume it's to ride the public wave of anger in hopes of a even bigger bump in polls (It's claiming they will abstain because a new election will delay an investigation).

Would an SF-FF coalition work?

FF-FG barely worked, and they're positions are largely similar

I'm honestly surprised the government has lasted this long. I predicted it would collapse with 6 months, but its gone almost a year.

[Ifreann]

Would an SF-FF coalition work?

FF-FG barely worked, and they're positions are largely similar

I'm honestly surprised the government has lasted this long. I predicted it would collapse with 6 months, but its gone almost a year.

Clearly no one's too pushed about having another election just yet.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

For a moment I was confused, until I realised this was the ROI parliament, and not the Northern Irish parliament, which is also in deep shit.

Since they're so in sync, they might as well go for re-unification.

[The Grene Knyght]

FF-FG barely worked, and they're positions are largely similar

I'm honestly surprised the government has lasted this long. I predicted it would collapse with 6 months, but its gone almost a year.

Clearly no one's too pushed about having another election just yet.

Fianna Fáil might be. They seem to be gaining more votes every election, and without FG would have far more TDs than any other party.

[Ifreann]

Clearly no one's too pushed about having another election just yet.

Fianna Fáil might be. They seem to be gaining more votes every election, and without FG would have far more TDs than any other party.

One imagines they're waiting until they'd win an election outright, or close enough.

[Major-Tom]

Ireland is a funny place.

[The Grene Knyght]

Fianna Fáil might be. They seem to be gaining more votes every election, and without FG would have far more TDs than any other party.

One imagines they're waiting until they'd win an election outright, or close enough.

Its been a while since anyone has won an election outright here, and I doubt FF will get near that level any time soon after their responsibility for the 2008 recession (although if any party is likely to do it, it'll be them.)

[Transoxthraxia]

good!