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I hate cars. Ban them!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you support an all out ban on cars?

Yes!
14
6%
I support a radical reduction in the number of personal vehicles currently in use, along with higher environmental standards and better urban planning.
118
49%
Things are fine the way they are!
80
33%
I didn't read the OP and am going to only react to the idea of a total full out immediate ban on cars.
28
12%
 
Total votes : 240

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Neesika
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I hate cars. Ban them!

Postby Neesika » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:12 pm

Image

I hate hydrocarbon burning vehicles. Hate. With a passion. As with many 'causes' I suppose my hatred of cars stems from personal experiences and/or selfish desires. So let me come clean and explain what I hate about cars, and why I think we should ban them. Outright.

1) I don't want my children continuously exposed to exhaust fumes.
I think it's inexcusable to be exposing all of us to such high levels of carcinogens on a daily basis. In fact, it seems absolutely insane.

When combined with close proximity to an emissions source, such as a bus or coach station, a child was at 12 times the risk of dying from cancer.


12 times the fucking risk? UNACCEPTABLE. Not to mention the other health problems associated with vehicle exhaust. What sane person wants that? By the way drivers, you too are at risk in your car.

2) I find the direct automobile mortality rate unacceptable. USians! Tens of thousands of you are killed every year in motor vehicle accidents! And you aren't even one of the worst countries for fatal auto crashes! Car crashes are the leading cause of accidental death. The seventh largest killer overall.

Now I don't drive anymore, so my chances of a highway collision (the most likely way to be fatally smashed to a pulp by hundreds of pounds of steel) have lessened. Unfortunately you can get wiped off the face of the earth just crossing the street when some moron blows through a light, a crosswalk, or down your residential street. Yeah, 33 pedestrian deaths in Montreal may not sound so horrible. Then how about 4,378 pedestrians killed overall in the US in 2008? Not enough gore for you? In 1996 there were 3,511,000 motor vehicle injuries in the US, 82,000 of which were pedestrians. But hey. Half a million people killed and 34 million more injured in the span of ten years is no big deal, right?

These are the two main reasons I hate cars, but here's another.

3) I'm tired of cities accommodating themselves to vehicles, rather than people. This may be less of a problem in older cities, but the newer cities are built like fairy-land suburban car paradises. Talk about urban sprawl! Drive through mall experiences! No public space, fuck you who needs sidewalks when I gotsa HUMMER! Strip mall after strip mall. It's an unsustainable way to live, and the fact that we deliberately construct inefficient urban landscapes made for cars, not people, drives me nuts.

I'm aware that our current mode of living means we cannot in one fell swoop eliminate all motor vehicles. We need transport so those of us in urban centres don't starve to death, and so on. But I do not believe we need anything near the amount of vehicles that are currently on the road, and not nearly enough is being done to shift us away from vehicular dependency.

Yeah, I hate second hand smoke, but I hate cars more.


Let's clear this up for all the people absolutely fucking intent on ignoring the following:

I stated I wanted a ban on cars. I explained my selfish reasons for this desire. I then made it clear that a ban is not something I actually believe is possible or desirable for obvious reasons like, oh, MASS STARVATION.

Now since some of you CAN NOT get over the thread title and the opening of the OP, I've included a poll. I am fairly sure Napotec is the ONLY poster in this entire thread who has actually said he supports an all out ban, and only one that would be phased in gradually. All of my posts have clearly laid out what I think could be done to lessen our vehicular dependency. I am not going to argue with you about your mistaken view that I actually support an immediate full out ban, full stop. You are wrong if you actually think that, and no amount of 'hur hur but you said...' crap is going to change that. I have clarified this many, many times. Kindly get over yourselves, and read what is posted. Thanks.
Last edited by Neesika on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Natapoc
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Postby Natapoc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:14 pm

I totally and fully agree with you. I've been meaning to make a thread on this for a long time too. Cars only serve to isolate people from each other and their environment and result in death and injury to many people.

Far more people die from automobiles then terrorism.
Last edited by Natapoc on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:16 pm

Natapoc wrote:I totally and fully agree with you. I've been meaning to make a thread on this for a long time too. Cars only serve to isolate people from each other and their environment and result in death and injury to many people.

Far more people die from automobiles then terrorism.

Isolate people? How so?
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Fanaglia
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Postby Fanaglia » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:16 pm

But street racing is a lot less fun on foot 8)
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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:17 pm

Neesika wrote:Image

I hate hydrocarbon burning vehicles. Hate. With a passion. As with many 'causes' I suppose my hatred of cars stems from personal experiences and/or selfish desires. So let me come clean and explain what I hate about cars, and why I think we should ban them. Outright.

1) I don't want my children continuously exposed to exhaust fumes.
I think it's inexcusable to be exposing all of us to such high levels of carcinogens on a daily basis. In fact, it seems absolutely insane.

When combined with close proximity to an emissions source, such as a bus or coach station, a child was at 12 times the risk of dying from cancer.


12 times the fucking risk? UNACCEPTABLE. Not to mention the other health problems associated with vehicle exhaust. What sane person wants that? By the way drivers, you too are at risk in your car.

2) I find the direct automobile mortality rate unacceptable. USians! Tens of thousands of you are killed every year in motor vehicle accidents! And you aren't even one of the worst countries for fatal auto crashes! Car crashes are the leading cause of accidental death. The seventh largest killer overall.

Now I don't drive anymore, so my chances of a highway collision (the most likely way to be fatally smashed to a pulp by hundreds of pounds of steel) have lessened. Unfortunately you can get wiped off the face of the earth just crossing the street when some moron blows through a light, a crosswalk, or down your residential street. Yeah, 33 pedestrian deaths in Montreal may not sound so horrible. How about 986 in LA? Compare that to 381 homicides in 2008 in that same city. Fuck worrying about crime, I'm worried about getting plastered all over the pavement!

These are the two main reasons I hate cars, but here's another.

3) I'm tired of cities accommodating themselves to vehicles, rather than people. This may be less of a problem in older cities, but the newer cities are built like fairy-land suburban car paradises. Talk about urban sprawl! Drive through mall experiences! No public space, fuck you who needs sidewalks when I gotsa HUMMER! Strip mall after strip mall. It's an unsustainable way to live, and the fact that we deliberately construct inefficient urban landscapes made for cars, not people, drives me nuts.

I'm aware that our current mode of living means we cannot in one fell swoop eliminate all motor vehicles. We need transport so those of us in urban centres don't starve to death, and so on. But I do not believe we need anything near the amount of vehicles that are currently on the road, and not nearly enough is being done to shift us away from vehicular dependency.

Yeah, I hate second hand smoke, but I hate cars more.


Being in a service industry I drive... A LOT... I' drive on average somewhere around 250 to 300 miles per day...

And I agree with you... most of the people on the roads do not need to be there, and do not need to be going from place to place in what they are going in...
Such heroic nonsense!

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Gauntleted Fist
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Postby Gauntleted Fist » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:17 pm

What about electric-powered cars?

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Lunatic Goofballs
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:19 pm

I must disagree.
I've had tons of fun with cars.
It's the roads that suck.
Last edited by Lunatic Goofballs on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Muravyets
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Postby Muravyets » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:19 pm

I support your mission and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Neesika
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Postby Neesika » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:20 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Natapoc wrote:I totally and fully agree with you. I've been meaning to make a thread on this for a long time too. Cars only serve to isolate people from each other and their environment and result in death and injury to many people.

Far more people die from automobiles then terrorism.

Isolate people? How so?

Here's my take on that.

Surburbia is not a place anyone would choose to live were it not for vehicles. You simply couldn't do it. There aren't enough services close by, and virtually no work. Surburbia ensures you must commute.

In contrast, when you live in a denser urban area, within walking or biking distance of essential services, and within walking or biking distance of your job, you tend to be more invested in your community on many different levels. You have more opportunities to interact with your neighbours in a variety of settings. You have more of a stake in the type of development that goes on around you.

And that's not even really dealing with the environmental impact of urban sprawl, made possibly only by the heavy reliance upon motor vehicles.
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Virabia
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Postby Virabia » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:20 pm

I couldnt agree more
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Yootopia
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Postby Yootopia » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:21 pm

Ban car use in public places. Rev the fuckers up in yer garage, fine, but don't fill my lungs with particulate.
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Natapoc
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Postby Natapoc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:21 pm

Can you put up a poll? I wonder how many people would be willing to support eliminating automobile use (assuming it was replaced with acceptable alternatives)
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Euroslavia
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Postby Euroslavia » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:21 pm

The specific statistics that you linked to in your first post were pretty shocking. Admittedly, I haven't really done much research on this topic, but I really enjoyed reading yours. Thank you for this.
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Muravyets
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Postby Muravyets » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:21 pm

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:I have to disagree.
I've had tons of fun with cars.
It's the roads that suck.

If everyone would just yank out the engines and use their cars for fun window-steaming activities, that would solve all the problems with them.
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Uawc
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Postby Uawc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:22 pm

Gauntleted Fist wrote:What about electric-powered cars?


That only deals with part of the problem.
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Pacific Bikini Bottom
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Postby Pacific Bikini Bottom » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:23 pm

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:I have to disagree.
I've had tons of fun with cars.
It's the roads that suck.


That is not a good
Haiku. It has six, not five,
Syllables on top.

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Neesika
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Postby Neesika » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:23 pm

Gauntleted Fist wrote:What about electric-powered cars?

Okay first thing...I know that it takes a fuckload of energy to make any kind of car, electric or otherwise. I do not support everyone just running out and getting an electric car. I don't think that would solve the problems. It WOULD help the immediate issue of direct pollution however. Which would be a good thing. I would like to see more encouragement of those who want to buy less polluting (and I'm talking exhaust fumes here) vehicles, but I don't want 'two cars in ever garage' to continue to be the norm.
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The Grand World Order
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Postby The Grand World Order » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm

"I hate cars."

That's nice.

"Ban them!"

No.

I mean, seriously, the title in itself sounds almost exactly like a child demanding something.

Now...

"Exposure to carcinogens and THE CHILDREN OH GOD THE CHILDREN"

You can't escape cancer, buddeh. At least, not unless you locked yourself in a lead-lined box for the rest of your life, I think. BTW, there needs to be some sort of Godwin's law pertaining to the use of children as emotional points in debate.

"Car accidents!!11"

Good/responsible drivers and passengers tend to not get into wrecks. Sadly, there are a bunch of fuckwits that decide to do stupid things with their automobiles, but hey- you're gonna have fuckwits no matter what you do. As for pedestrians getting run over crossing the street... oh, for shit's sake, do you know how many times me or my family have to dodge a dumbass pedestrian who tries to walk out into the middle of the street (rather than at a crosswalk- they're there for a reason)? Really, it's not that hard to look before you step out.

"People can't walk anymore!"

Never seen anything of this sort, not even back in San Diego, and certainly not here in Greeley. Frankly, I don't have a clue as to where you got the idea that sidewalks have been done away with.
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Uawc
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Postby Uawc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm

I agree, by the way. But cars will always be in production and sold because they make money. Once again, capitalism taking money over human lives.
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The Christian Reich
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Postby The Christian Reich » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm

Thats like saying "I hate airplanes, ban them, I'm selfish." You can't just tell an entire world to ban airplanes. Do you know the millions of jobs that would be lost if cars or airplanes were to be banned. Real life doesn't work that way. Btw, what about people who cant walk, would you like to demolish a century worth of scientific growth, to go back to horses. Have they not been used enough?
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm

I hate cars as well. Unfortunately I have to drive one to get to work, and a motorcycle isn't practical here six months out of the year.
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Postby Andaluciae » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm

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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:25 pm

I couldn't agree more about car exhaust, drivers ought to pay for an enclosed, ventilated sidewalk so I don't die from their fumes.

Other than that, the rest is avoidable to some extent or another, I don't mind if people kill themselves and those who choose to be around them when they smoke, I don't care when they do it in a car (although its easily more amusing).
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Neesika
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Postby Neesika » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:25 pm

Tekania wrote:
Being in a service industry I drive... A LOT... I' drive on average somewhere around 250 to 300 miles per day...

And I agree with you... most of the people on the roads do not need to be there, and do not need to be going from place to place in what they are going in...


So many SOV (single occupant vehicles) on the road...it really and truly amazes me. It's so needlessly wasteful and directly harmful. You can fit 50 or more people on a bus...that's 50 fucking cars OFF the road. That's a huge reduction. But people opt for convenience.

And there's the other thing I don't get. Cars aren't actually all that convenient. Not with the insane parking rates, risk of accident and intentional damage (people stealing your shit), insurance, maintenance, etc etc etc. Life is just a lot less stressful without a car.
"Look, Ann Coulter explained it one time. Jesus came to perfect the Jews so they could become Christians and be saved. If they stay Jews, they are rejecting God and the opportunity to eat bacon dipped in mayo and served on the tits of a woman who doesn't complain at restaruants." - RepentNowOrPayLater

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Muravyets
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Postby Muravyets » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:25 pm

Neesika wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Natapoc wrote:I totally and fully agree with you. I've been meaning to make a thread on this for a long time too. Cars only serve to isolate people from each other and their environment and result in death and injury to many people.

Far more people die from automobiles then terrorism.

Isolate people? How so?

Here's my take on that.

Surburbia is not a place anyone would choose to live were it not for vehicles. You simply couldn't do it. There aren't enough services close by, and virtually no work. Surburbia ensures you must commute.

In contrast, when you live in a denser urban area, within walking or biking distance of essential services, and within walking or biking distance of your job, you tend to be more invested in your community on many different levels. You have more opportunities to interact with your neighbours in a variety of settings. You have more of a stake in the type of development that goes on around you.

And that's not even really dealing with the environmental impact of urban sprawl, made possibly only by the heavy reliance upon motor vehicles.

I agree. And on the flip side is the rural model in which every town is fully equipped with services and socializing venues within walking distance of each other in the town center, so that cars only need to be used minimally and for real purposes, not just zooming about for each separate errand. At least, that's how it was before Sprawlburbia consumed the countryside. The modern suburb model is a fake monster invented by ideologue-architects who were building a world that would support the interests of their main investors -- Exxon and Ford.
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However, I am still not the topic of this thread.

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