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[SUBMITTED] Veterans Vocalize Voting Views

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Ransium
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[SUBMITTED] Veterans Vocalize Voting Views

Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:26 pm

Folks who have read Starship Troppers will be unsurprised that this issue is inspired from it (those who have only watched the movie, however will be confused). I realized I have been mostly avoiding issues dealing explicitly with political freedoms, I think because they can be quite tricky to write within the existing cannon, but hopefully this issue does okay.

If I missed possible validity criteria for the issue or in option 2 let me know.

Also, considering the slightly altered title of 'Vets Vociferous Vocalize Voting Views', what do you think?

[title]Veterans Vocalize Voting Views

[desc]A new political action group, called "Voting with Valor", is advocating that only citizens actively serving in the military or who have been honorable discharged from the military be permitted to vote. The debate has become rather heated, with Voting with Valor supporters questioning why @@NAME@@'s unpatriotic, disgraceful, duty shirking citizens should be able to influence governance, and the opposition claiming this is an attempt to codify the rule of military-industrial complex over the democratic state. To clear your head from the controversy, you've decided to go on a early morning jog.

[validity]must be democracy, must have substantial military spending

[option]While jogging, you realize a drill sergeant and a platoon of cadets, each wearing a Voting with Valor pin, have begun jogging behind you. They begin a call-and-response jodie: "I don't know what I've been told, but non-veterans voting is far too bold. In order to vote one must be willing to make a sacrifice, voters should prove they're braver than mice. Veteran-only voting would be most wise, the positive effects may be a surprise. Honorable soldiers know the seriousness of war, unnecessary aggression you can be sure veteran's deplore. It would have one more benefit if I might say, you can bet soldiers would get better pay."
[effect]Veteran appreciation day and voting day are difficult to distinguish

[option validity]some group (women, men, gays, non-gays transsexuals, foreigners etc.) must not be allowed to serve in the military
[option]After you and the platoon separate, Bigtopian-born, bisexual, transsexual known only as Ryan jogs up to you, "All well and good, but so long as not everyone is allowed to serve in the military, then you're effectively disenfranchising parts of the electorate. If you're going to limit the vote to current and former soldiers, you must also let everyone serve in the military, too."
[effect]all are allowed to serve in @@NAME@@'s military and must do so if they want to vote

[option]As you begin your cool-down, @@RANDOMNAMEMALE@@, an out-of-shape voting rights activist, sidles up to you. "Look," he wheezes between gasps for air, "if we get into the business of saying which citizens get to vote, it's a slippery slope to dictatorship, no matter how noble the intentions. If you ask me, we need to limit the ability of the military and associated groups to lobby the legislature. I think lawmakers can already appreciate the importance of a well-functioning military without having an unimpeachable wheelchair-bound vet further pressuring them."
[effect]veterans are not allowed to take tours of @@CAPITAL@@ for fear of unfairly influencing the legislature

[option]As you begin your post-workout shower, you're chagrined to hear the voice of former psychologist and current Secretary of Veterans' Affairs on the other side of the shower curtain, "Pardon the interruption @@LEADER@@," she says, "but I must weigh in on this matter. I think you must understand the currently dysfunctional and co-dependent government-military relationship from which Voting with Valor members' feelings arise. The government must work to holistically empower current and former soldiers. Specifically, the situation might be remedied with increases to current pay; pensions for disabled vets; and the availability of physical and, of course, mental healthcare. I'm confident these changes would be effective cures to this current psychosis Voting with Valor represents.."
[effect]disabled veteran soldiers are @@NAME@@'s nouveau riche
Last edited by Ransium on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:15 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Volitopia
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Postby Volitopia » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:13 pm

Looks good for a first draft.

[ENGAGING NITPICKER MODE]
Ransium wrote:Also, considering the slightly altered title of 'Vets Vociferous Vocalize Voting Views', what do you think?

If you want to go with the alt-title, make it "Vets Vociferously Vocalize Voting Views", but personally, the original title works best.
Ransium wrote:While jogging, you realize a Drill Sargent and platoon of cadets

I think it's "Sergeant"
Ransium wrote:They begin a call and response chant: "I don't know what I've been told, but average citizens' voting bears risks untold. In order to vote one must be willing to make a sacrifice, voters should prove they're braver than mice. Veteran only voting would be most wise, and the positive effects may be a surprise. Soldiers know the seriousness of war, unnecessary aggression you can be sure veteran voters would deplore. It would have one more benefit if I might say, you can bet soldiers would get better pay."

For the call-and-response thing, try writing it "call-and-response", and to make it more clear, put italics on the rhyming words so the reader can tell easily when the call and when the response is happening
Ransium wrote:

In general, the issue options could use a few more ounces of verbs, such as for option 3 "[talk]…she pants, struggling to keep up…[talk]", etc...
Ransium wrote:Folks who have read Starship Troppers will be unsurprised that this issue is inspired from it

Ayyy

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:24 pm

Ransium wrote:[title]Vets Vocalize Voting Views

[desc]A new political action group is gaining notice in @@CAPITAL@@. The group, called "Voting with Valor", is advocating that only those who are actively serving in the military or have been honorable discharged be permitted to vote.
...Oh.

From the title, I thought this was going to be about veterinarians, not veterans (I think the former is a by far more common usage of "vet").

Since we have an issue that allows @@ANIMAL@@s to vote and run for office (#502), but this presumably does not actually give them the ability to start speaking English, figuring out who gets to explain their views for them could be an actual issue in the crazy world of NationStates.

Anyway, this seems like a lighter form of conscription (you're not forced to join the military, but you pretty much have to if you want to be treated as a real citizen), so it feels like it would make more sense as a compromise option on an issue about conscription than as an entire issue by itself. Problem is, we already have several issues about conscription. In the absence of this compromise option, though, I think players who are inclined to choose it would more likely choose to have conscription than to not have it, so it wouldn't be a very interesting choice for most nations that meet the current validity.

Ransium wrote:malingerers
That's the first time I've ever seen that word.

I looked it up in the dictionary (you spelled it correctly!), and apparently it means "feign illness, especially as an excuse to shirk work or duty". I guess you just went by the "shirk duty" part, but I don't think that's entirely correct usage, the main meaning is still "feign illness".

Ransium wrote:[option]While jogging, you realize a Drill Sargent and platoon of cadets,
Should be: "drill sergeant" (I don't think it warrants capitalization, also note the spelling correction), "a platoon".

Ransium wrote:voters should prove they're braver than mice
This sounds like the time for a mouse to show up and take offense :)

Ransium wrote:Veteran only
This-should-be-"veteran-only".

Ransium wrote:[effect]veterans appreciation day and voting day are difficult to distinguish
"Veteran appreciation".

Ransium wrote:[option validity]some group (women, men, gays, non-gays, transsexuals, foreigners etc.) must not be allowed to serve in the military
...Children?

(Okay, so most nations don't allow those to vote regardless of their policy in the military...)

Ransium wrote:Bigtopian-born, bisexual, transsexual
The last comma should be omitted beccause you're using "transsexual" as a noun.

(Save the comma, you'll need it in a moment.)

Ransium wrote:"All well and good, but so long as not everyone is allowed to serve in the military, then your effectively disenfranchising parts of the electorate. If your going to limit the vote to current and former soldiers, you must also let everyone serve in the military, too."
"You're", both times.

Ransium wrote:[option]As you begin your cool-down @@RANDOMNAME@@,
I use @@RANDOMNAME@@ to cool down?

Take that comma you've been saving and place it after "cool-down".

Ransium wrote:If you ask me, we need to limit the ability of the military and associated groups to lobby the legislator.
Ransium wrote:[effect]veterans are not allowed to take tours of @@CAPITAL@@ for fear of influencing the legislator unfairly
"Legislature".

A "legislator" is an individual member.

Ransium wrote:Secretary of Veterans Affairs
"Veteran Affairs". Or possibly "Veterans' Affairs".

Ransium wrote:I think you must understand the dysfunctional co-dependent government-veteran relationship from which Voting with Valor member's feelings arise.
"Members'".

Ransium wrote:and other veteran benefit
I think that should be "benefits".

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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:22 pm

Trotterdam wrote:From the title, I thought this was going to be about veterinarians, not veterans (I think the former is a by far more common usage of "vet").

Since we have an issue that allows @@ANIMAL@@s to vote and run for office (#502), but this presumably does not actually give them the ability to start speaking English, figuring out who gets to explain their views for them could be an actual issue in the crazy world of NationStates.


I hadn't considered that, and honestly I could see that being a better issue than this one. Anyway I changed it to veterans, but I am sad to have this title block the title for that issue. Oh well!

Trotterdam wrote:Anyway, this seems like a lighter form of conscription (you're not forced to join the military, but you pretty much have to if you want to be treated as a real citizen), so it feels like it would make more sense as a compromise option on an issue about conscription than as an entire issue by itself. Problem is, we already have several issues about conscription. In the absence of this compromise option, though, I think players who are inclined to choose it would more likely choose to have conscription than to not have it, so it wouldn't be a very interesting choice for most nations that meet the current validity.


Well I can only write within the canon we've got, right? Any suggestions? Otherwise, I'll let an editor decide if this issue would be interesting or not to enough nations. If it's rejected, I certainly won't loose sleep.

EDIT: I see I have been sent the follow telegram:
"I support your vet voting bill and such is the foundation of my country for a long time."

I don't normally get telegrams about my drafts, so maybe this has more interest than you think?

Trotterdam wrote:That's the first time I've ever seen that word.

I looked it up in the dictionary (you spelled it correctly!)


:o But I've changed it.


Trotterdam wrote:"Veteran Affairs". Or possibly "Veterans' Affairs".


I was just following orders! Get an editor to change #422, and I'll follow suit here.

Trotterdam wrote:"Members'".


But I recognized an apostrophe was needed at least!
Last edited by Ransium on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Volitopia wrote:For the call-and-response thing, try writing it "call-and-response", and to make it more clear, put italics on the rhyming words so the reader can tell easily when the call and when the response is happening

Done!
Volitopia wrote:In general, the issue options could use a few more ounces of verbs, such as for option 3 "[talk]…she pants, struggling to keep up…[talk]", etc...


I don't disagree, but this isn't a novel and I don't get paragraphs. Clearly narrating action happening outside of the dialogue and speaking action is a bit of a challenge. Also in 2 I don't actually know the gender of the person speaking so avoiding a dialogue tag is pretty much necessary. That said, I've made some changes.
Last edited by Ransium on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Commended by SC 236,
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Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
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Volitopia
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Postby Volitopia » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:54 pm

Ransium wrote:I don't disagree, but this isn't a novel and I don't get paragraphs. Clearly narrating action happening outside of the dialogue and speaking action is a bit of a challenge.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind when writing my own issues in the future
Ransium wrote:That said, I've made some changes.

Also thanks

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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:14 pm

Volitopia wrote:
Ransium wrote:I don't disagree, but this isn't a novel and I don't get paragraphs. Clearly narrating action happening outside of the dialogue and speaking action is a bit of a challenge.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind when writing my own issues in the future
Ransium wrote:That said, I've made some changes.

Also thanks


i appreciate feedback whether your new to the forum or an editor. I look forward to reading/commenting upon your draft when you write it.
Last edited by Ransium on Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:47 pm

Ransium wrote:Well I can only write within the canon we've got, right? Any suggestions? Otherwise, I'll let an editor decide if this issue would be interesting or not to enough nations. If it's rejected, I certainly won't loose sleep.

EDIT: I see I have been sent the follow telegram:
"I support your vet voting bill and such is the foundation of my country for a long time."

I don't normally get telegrams about my drafts, so maybe this has more interest than you think?
Did the sender mention whether he currently has a draft or not?

My best idea would be to either rewrite the issue to apply to nations which do have a draft and discuss how to deal with people who resist conscription ("allow it but don't let them vote" being one option), or adjust it to be more agnostic to nations' current stance so it can apply to both.

Question to editors: #313 option 1 results in having a draft but also allowing conscientious objection. Does the game track this as "mandatory draft" or "not mandatory draft", or is there a second "conscientious objection" flag tracked separately from whether you have a draft in the first place?

Naturally, if other players who are more excited about this subject have other ideas, they should say so themselves.

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Postby Ransium » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:29 pm

Trotterdam wrote:My best idea would be to either rewrite the issue to apply to nations which do have a draft and discuss how to deal with people who resist conscription ("allow it but don't let them vote" being one option), or adjust it to be more agnostic to nations' current stance so it can apply to both.


The former would mean scraping most of this, which would be a shame because I think it's above average writing for me (as far as humor and concept) right now. For the latter I'm not sure what you mean. I get what your driving at in the next paragraph, but if you have true conscription where citizens have to serve no matter what (objectors be damned), then who cares whether you have to serve to vote, you already have to serve.

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Postby Ransium » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:13 pm

So the nation who TGed me said joining was mandatory, but the penalty for not joining (beyond not being able to vote) is a small fine. I'm thinking I'll just drop the conscription validity and nations that have conscription can interpret this issue as weighing the punishment if they refuse to serve (legally or illegally).

Edit: Okay I've edited the draft a bit to try to be applicable to both nations with or without conscription. Basically you must have both served in the military and have been honorable discharged which I feel like makes 1 eliminate some people from having the right to vote in almost any country conscription or no.
Last edited by Ransium on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:57 pm

Ransium wrote:I was just following orders! Get an editor to change #422, and I'll follow suit here.
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Fixed to Veterans' Affairs

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Postby Ransium » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:08 pm

Suit has been followed.

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Postby Hansdeltania » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Chants are called "jodies."
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Postby Ransium » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:32 pm

Hansdeltania wrote:Chants are called "jodies."


Per wikipedia this is a US centric term. Does 'cadence call' work okay?
Last edited by Ransium on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:13 am

Bump. Unless persuaded otherwise, I will be submitting this in a week. Expect one more bump within 24 hours of me submitting.

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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:18 pm

Can former soldiers vote?
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Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:22 pm

Australian Republic wrote:Can former soldiers vote?


Ransium wrote:[desc]A new political action group, called "Voting with Valor", is advocating that only citizens actively serving in the military or who have been honorable discharged from the military be permitted to vote.
Last edited by Ransium on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:42 am

Ransium wrote:
Hansdeltania wrote:Chants are called "jodies."


Per wikipedia this is a US centric term. Does 'cadence call' work okay?


I'd go with "jodies". Even though the word was new to me, hearing it made me look it up, and my vocabulary grew.

We often use words that only have meaning one side of the pond. Sometimes that means we're being too parochial, but I think sometimes its just nice to teach new words.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Postby Ransium » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:45 am

Sounds good, changed it jodie.

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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:48 am

Ransium wrote:
Australian Republic wrote:Can former soldiers vote?


Ransium wrote:[desc]A new political action group, called "Voting with Valor", is advocating that only citizens actively serving in the military or who have been honorable discharged from the military be permitted to vote.

What's an honourable discharge
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:57 am

Jeez man, don't you have google?
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Volitopia
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Postby Volitopia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:31 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:...We often use words that only have meaning one side of the pond. Sometimes that means we're being too parochial, but I think sometimes its just nice to teach new words.

I knew it! I knew it! There are educational motives behind this all! Nooooooooooooooo! :p
(when you made me look up parochial)
(Going off on a tangent:) I also noticed from reading lots of issues (over 300!), the "recent headlines" section basically acts as a newspaper "lead", typically with a majority of the who, what, where, when, why, and how details. There exist some issues that are fine in content, but the headline is a few words which only give a bare sense of setting. Is there a special place to report this, or is it just in the "Help us fix old issues!" threads?

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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:40 pm

I will be submitting this in ~24 hours (probably a bit less than that) without further feedback...

Commended by SC 236,
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Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
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