Cyprus reunification talks reach advanced stage

[The Archregimancy]

With all the crap news about nationalism currently making the rounds, let's welcome cause for cautious optimism over one of Europe's more intractable problems.

Talks over the reunification of Cyprus, which have been quietly underway on a bilateral basis between the Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders for some time, have reached an advanced stage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... is-johnson

Encouragingly, the Greek, Turkish, and British governments are now sending senior representatives - something which they had said they would only do if there was serious progress and a real prospect of a resolution. Even more encouragingly, the Turks have decided to send Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım - a sign that they're taking this very seriously indeed. Given the status of North Cyprus, this level of Turkish representation is grounds for cautious optimism. Both of the Cypriot leaders also seem genuinely invested in finding a deal.

We've been here before, of course. Twelve years ago the Annan Plan - the last serious attempt to reunify the island - collapsed when the subsequent dual referenda were accepted by 65% of Turkish Cypriots, but rejected by 75% of Greek Cypriots.

Is there any more cause for optimism this time? Is reunification desirable?

Bedridden with a bad cold, I'm going to say yes to both. Depending on how I feel, and how the thread evolves, I'll elaborate in due course.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Hmm, that's not news I expected. Reunification could certainly be nice if done right.

[San Regada]

Thats all nice but we still have to solve;

Transnistria
South Ossetia
Abkhazia
Donbass
Nagorno-Karabakh

And tbh I believe all it takes is one order from Sultan Erdogan and rip reunification talks.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I am hopeful for the reunification.

[Alvecia]

Gonna be honest, I wasn't aware that Cyprus was so split. This is pleasantly surprising.

[Minoa]

I am aware of the reunification plan for a week or two now and they say that it is going really well, given how old the divisions have become. If it happens (with a decent compensation deal) it could cheer me up a bit, although the storm clouds of Brexit still loom over my future in the UK.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Gonna be honest, I wasn't aware that Cyprus was so split. This is pleasantly surprising.

A bit of good news is always welcome.

[The Archregimancy]

Thats all nice but we still have to solve;

Transnistria
South Ossetia
Abkhazia
Donbass
Nagorno-Karabakh

All of which are no doubt difficult, but none of which have been dragging on as long as Cyprus - and none of which involve members of the EU and NATO.

In the current political climate, I'll take cautious optimism anywhere I can find it.

[San Regada]

Thats all nice but we still have to solve;

Transnistria
South Ossetia
Abkhazia
Donbass
Nagorno-Karabakh

All of which are no doubt difficult, but none of which have been dragging on as long as Cyprus - and none of which involve members of the EU and NATO.

In the current political climate, I'll take cautious optimism anywhere I can find it.

Nothing really wrong with the political climate, just a branch of the left-wing overreacting about everything, prompting the right-wing to be overly triggered.

Migrants tho.

But yeah, I still have my doubt's the Turkish would accept such unification, then again, North Cyprus is politically isolated as a """""state""""" so.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Last minute change of plan: everyone's got to leave and it'll become part of Greater Israel.

[Ifreann]

Good things could be happening?
*cautious optimism*

---

Bedridden with a bad cold, I'm going to say yes to both. Depending on how I feel, and how the thread evolves, I'll elaborate in due course.

The mod-flu!

[Commonwealth of Hank the Cat]

Problem is, we don't know what the silver lining to all of this is. This sounds too good to be true.

[Baltenstein]

Considering how awful (for different reasons) the governments of both Turkey and Greece are, I hope they are not going to undermine the talks somehow.

[The Archregimancy]

Considering how awful (for different reasons) the governments of both Turkey and Greece are, I hope they are not going to undermine the talks somehow.

Without underestimating the remaining problems (the big sticking point being that Ankara wants to maintain a troop presence while Athens wants all troops [excepting the two UK bases] withdrawn), I'm hoping that enough people on all sides see this as enough of a win-win situation, and enough of a symbolic sign that they can achieve positive outcomes, that they'll be able to cut the proverbial Gordian knot. That both sides have seriously discussed territorial concessions is a big positive.

If I understand correctly, one of the factors leading to cautious optimism is that both the Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders are originally from the same city (though I can't remember if it's Limassol or Famagusta), so there's a personal commonality there that hasn't existed before - recognising that anything they come up with will be worthless without agreement from Athens and (particularly) Ankara. The UK remains a formal guarantor of Cyprus under agreements reached in 1960, but is realistically tangential outside of its role in agreeing to hand over 50% of the territory of its two bases should agreement be reached.

[Crockerland]

the big sticking point being that Ankara wants to maintain a troop presence while Athens wants all troops [excepting the two UK bases] withdrawn

Sounds like Turkey is the problem.

[The Archregimancy]

the big sticking point being that Ankara wants to maintain a troop presence while Athens wants all troops [excepting the two UK bases] withdrawn

Sounds like Turkey is the problem.

No, there are other issues as well; I should have written 'a big sticking point' rather than 'the'. Ankara's desire to keep troops on the ground is certainly one of them, but opposition from many Greek Cypriots over any form of rotating presidency encompassing both communities is another. Six of the eight parties in the Greek Cypriot parliament also reject any deal on the basis that adequate compensation for the 1974 expulsions following the Turkish invasion is impossible.

I wouldn't go pre-assigning blame until we know whether the talks succeed or not; if they fail there'll no doubt be plenty of blame to go around.

But the Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders are both keen on making a deal, and the UN is giving them a lot of support. What we hope to avoid this time is a repeat of 2004 - a UN-backed deal supported by both community leaders that's then rejected by one of the communities in the subsequent simultaneous referenda.

[Constantinopolis]

I don't really see why the reunification of Cyprus is desirable. I think it is a leading example of the irrational fondness of the modern world for preserving current de jure international borders at all costs, even when they make no cultural or national sense or when they haven't existed de facto for decades.

The most egregious case of this is Somalia - a state that has been dead for decades but which the international community keeps trying to resuscitate. And they do this for no reason that I can discern. Just give up already and extend formal recognition to the real situation on the ground.

A less extreme but similar situation exists in Cyprus. Is there any reason why Cyprus should exist as a unified state?

If you ask me, the international community should allow southern Cyprus to unite with Greece and recognize Northern Cyprus as an independent state and allow it to unite with Turkey. Let Greece and Turkey have a land border on the island of Cyprus, as they do in Thrace, and be done with it.

[Luziyca]

...seems promising, but I doubt that much will come out of it (what with the failed Annan Plan and all). Would be simpler to just officially partition Cyprus: the Greek part can unite with Greece, the Turkish part can unite with Turkey.

[The Archregimancy]

I don't really see why the reunification of Cyprus is desirable. I think it is a leading example of the irrational fondness of the modern world for preserving current de jure international borders at all costs, even when they make no cultural or national sense or when they haven't existed de facto for decades.

The most egregious case of this is Somalia - a state that has been dead for decades but which the international community keeps trying to resuscitate. And they do this for no reason that I can discern. Just give up already and extend formal recognition to the real situation on the ground.

Should we do this in the West Bank as well?

[Thermodolia]

Finally! Maybe there is hope for Turkey yet

[Thermodolia]

...seems promising, but I doubt that much will come out of it (what with the failed Annan Plan and all). Would be simpler to just officially partition Cyprus: the Greek part can unite with Greece, the Turkish part can unite with Turkey.

Ya that would cause a big mess in of itself and I'm pretty sure the Greek side likes being independent

[Crockerland]

I don't really see why the reunification of Cyprus is desirable. I think it is a leading example of the irrational fondness of the modern world for preserving current de jure international borders at all costs, even when they make no cultural or national sense or when they haven't existed de facto for decades.

The most egregious case of this is Somalia - a state that has been dead for decades but which the international community keeps trying to resuscitate. And they do this for no reason that I can discern. Just give up already and extend formal recognition to the real situation on the ground.

Should we do this in the West Bank as well?

Israel has made multiple offers for a two state solution which the Palestinians have denied.

[Luziyca]

...seems promising, but I doubt that much will come out of it (what with the failed Annan Plan and all). Would be simpler to just officially partition Cyprus: the Greek part can unite with Greece, the Turkish part can unite with Turkey.

Ya that would cause a big mess in of itself and I'm pretty sure the Greek side likes being independent

I said "can." Doesn't mean they have to.

[Thermodolia]

All of which are no doubt difficult, but none of which have been dragging on as long as Cyprus - and none of which involve members of the EU and NATO.

In the current political climate, I'll take cautious optimism anywhere I can find it.

Nothing really wrong with the political climate, just a branch of the left-wing overreacting about everything, prompting the right-wing to be overly triggered.

Migrants tho.

But yeah, I still have my doubt's the Turkish would accept such unification, then again, North Cyprus is politically isolated as a """""state""""" so.

Half of those states are Russia puppet states and one (Donbas) is in legal limbo land so it technically doesn't exist.

[Luziyca]

All of which are no doubt difficult, but none of which have been dragging on as long as Cyprus - and none of which involve members of the EU and NATO.

In the current political climate, I'll take cautious optimism anywhere I can find it.

Nothing really wrong with the political climate, just a branch of the left-wing overreacting about everything, prompting the right-wing to be overly triggered.

Migrants tho.

But yeah, I still have my doubt's the Turkish would accept such unification, then again, North Cyprus is politically isolated as a """""state""""" so.

The last time there were plans for reunification...

65% of Turkish Cypriots accepted the Annan Plan, while 75% of Greek Cypriots rejected the plan.