US Betrays Democracy in Middle East, Again

[Lonograd]

Wow one article that said Assad will fall, people have been saying that since 2011 and have been saying he will fall next year or the year after that, the fact is that the Syrian army has been winning on many fronts especially against ISIS and in Aleppo.

Jesus fucking wept... Just read it and think about it, like hard. Do you think the degeneration of the apparatus of the state is not a big deal? The bureaucracy and the ruling party is increasingly irrelevant, various state sanctioned gangs do the heaving lifting now and are replacing them in parliament. The Syrian Army as it was before the war doesn't exist. Those victories, won with the breathing space of Russian support, were largely won by private and religious militias. Palmyra was lost, retaken and now is a battleground again. Aleppo was encircled and besieged and then the siege was broken, it's a stalemate like it has been for years. Assad can't even control the outer suburbs of Damascus after five years.

Umm, the Syrian army does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Army
And what do you think will happen after Assad falls? He will be replaced by either ISIS or Al Qaeda so who would you think the Syrian people want? The secular, socialist government of Syria or Islamists?

[Bakery Hill]

Jesus fucking wept... Just read it and think about it, like hard. Do you think the degeneration of the apparatus of the state is not a big deal? The bureaucracy and the ruling party is increasingly irrelevant, various state sanctioned gangs do the heaving lifting now and are replacing them in parliament. The Syrian Army as it was before the war doesn't exist. Those victories, won with the breathing space of Russian support, were largely won by private and religious militias. Palmyra was lost, retaken and now is a battleground again. Aleppo was encircled and besieged and then the siege was broken, it's a stalemate like it has been for years. Assad can't even control the outer suburbs of Damascus after five years.

Umm, the Syrian army does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Army
And what do you think will happen after Assad falls? He will be replaced by either ISIS or Al Qaeda so who would you think the Syrian people want? The secular, socialist government of Syria or Islamists?

You ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> The point.

Mate I know the Syrian Army exists, I said.

"The Syrian Army as it was before the war doesn't exist."

Also none of what I said was about what I want to happen to Syria post-Assad. It was all about busting your ridiculous story that the regime is winning and everything is fine. What you or I want to happen is irrelevant in light of what's happening.

[The New Sea Territory]

Jesus fucking wept... Just read it and think about it, like hard. Do you think the degeneration of the apparatus of the state is not a big deal? The bureaucracy and the ruling party is increasingly irrelevant, various state sanctioned gangs do the heaving lifting now and are replacing them in parliament. The Syrian Army as it was before the war doesn't exist. Those victories, won with the breathing space of Russian support, were largely won by private and religious militias. Palmyra was lost, retaken and now is a battleground again. Aleppo was encircled and besieged and then the siege was broken, it's a stalemate like it has been for years. Assad can't even control the outer suburbs of Damascus after five years.

Umm, the Syrian army does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Army
And what do you think will happen after Assad falls? He will be replaced by either ISIS or Al Qaeda so who would you think the Syrian people want? The secular, socialist government of Syria or Islamists?

False dichotomy; support the Kurds.

The YPG has set up majority-Arab communes. Can't access reddit right now, but they regularly post about them on /r/Rojava.

[Lonograd]

He's also killing these people. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Syria.jpg
And these people. https://files.foreignaffairs.com/styles ... k=6kPwftbR

And these as well. https://cdn2.img.sputniknews.com/images ... 824163.jpg

Anybody can post pictures of ISIS thugs. The US and Kurds are killing those as well.
He is also killing more people than just ISIS. In fact he has caused more deaths than ISIS.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 73956.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/is ... story.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/assads-g ... sis-2015-2

See sources. No random pictures.

1. Those three pictures I posted aren't ISIS
2. You keep sourcing western media which is increasingly biased against the Syrian government and biased for the Al Qaeda rebels.

[Novus America]

Anybody can post pictures of ISIS thugs. The US and Kurds are killing those as well.
He is also killing more people than just ISIS. In fact he has caused more deaths than ISIS.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 73956.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/is ... story.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/assads-g ... sis-2015-2

See sources. No random pictures.

1. Those three pictures I posted aren't ISIS
2. You keep sourcing western media which is increasingly biased against the Syrian government and biased for the Al Qaeda rebels.

The are still just pictures. Not sources. And you use the same sources when they suit you to criticize the Kurds, so you cannot make that arguement.

[Valaran]

2. You keep sourcing western media which is increasingly biased against the Syrian government and biased for the Al Qaeda rebels.

Criticizing a source only really has weight when you bring up either specific instances of inaccuracies/misrepresentations that are relevant to article at hand, or convincingly display how it has subtly shifted facts and arguments. Rote accusations of bias don't hold much water.

[Communist Xomaniax]

The secular, socialist government of Syria or Islamists?

>"socialist"

Read: authoritarian kleptocratic hereditary dictatorship

[Lonograd]

The secular, socialist government of Syria or Islamists?

>"socialist"

Read: authoritarian kleptocratic hereditary dictatorship

Opposed to this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Assad.html

[The New Sea Territory]

>"socialist"

Read: authoritarian kleptocratic hereditary dictatorship

Opposed to this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Assad.html

It seems Assad supporters can only maintain their own position if the conflict is viewed in a lesser-of-two-evils way. False dichotomies are great for dictators.

[Lonograd]

Opposed to this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Assad.html

It seems Assad supporters can only maintain their own position if the conflict is viewed in a lesser-of-two-evils way. False dichotomies are great for dictators.

Says someone who supports the Kurds.

[Spurdo Sparde Land]

Opposed to this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Assad.html

It seems Assad supporters can only maintain their own position if the conflict is viewed in a lesser-of-two-evils way. False dichotomies are great for dictators.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but civil wars aren't exactly black and white.

[Communist Xomaniax]

>"socialist"

Read: authoritarian kleptocratic hereditary dictatorship

Opposed to this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Assad.html

>your argument is literally whataboutism

I don't support the moderate beheaders the US is supporting. My objection is purely calling Assad's kleptocratic monstrosity "socialist".

[Supreme Allied Commander]

More than a year ago I published a TAKE RAQQA BATTLEPLAN
http://supremealliedcondista.newsvine.c ... battleplan
attempting to co-ordinate Turkish & Free Syrian forces with Kurdish and Syrian Democratic forces.

A key feature of my plan was a Turkish army ground attack west of the Euphrates deep into Syria, attacking Raqqa from the south, co-ordinating with SDF/YPG forces (then known as the "Euphrates Volcano") attacking Raqqa from the north.

I posted about it here in Nation States too.

TAKE RAQQA BATTLEPLAN

* My username elsewhere is Supreme Allied Condista - I've not yet made promotion to Supreme Allied Commander in the real world

This is my political and military plan to put the squeeze on the so-called "Islamic State" / ISIS / ISIL / Daesh operational capital at Raqqa, Syria.

1) The Turkish army invades Syria with an armoured column west and south of the Euphrates and attacks Raqqa from the south, also blocking the east and west routes to Raqqa.

2) ...

However my plan didn't seem to be taken up by either the White House, Pentagon or NATO HQ.

The Russians / Al-Assad / Syrian Arab Army then claimed they were in a position to attack Raqqa themselves, so I said "Fine, on you go" but it seems it was all a bluff and they had more pressing priorities than to push an armoured column to attack Raqqa.

Anyway, I am still offering to take out ISIS from Raqqa, one way or another, but it looks like I will actually need to be appointed to something to get sufficient attention paid to my battle-plans.

I might suggest appointing me to serve as a military commander under / security adviser to Condoleezza Rice - appointing her as NATO Secretary General or United Nations Secretary General.

I don't really think it is appropriate for me to take my orders from anyone else but Condi.

Race for al-Bab intensifies, DAESH faces expulsion from Aleppo - Daily Sabah
http://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisis ... rom-aleppo

"As DAESH loses ground in Aleppo province, the race to seize the last major city controlled by DAESH in the province, al-Bab, has intensified between three competing anti-DAESH factions"

Signal to Anti-ISIS Forces from SUPREME ALLIED CONDISTA

TAKE AL-BAB

[The New Sea Territory]

It seems Assad supporters can only maintain their own position if the conflict is viewed in a lesser-of-two-evils way. False dichotomies are great for dictators.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but civil wars aren't exactly black and white.

.....that was my point....

[New Benian Republic]

The US shouldn't be involving itself at all in the war between president Assad and the terrorists. Also the US constantly goes against democratic movements.

[G-Tech Corporation]

The US shouldn't be involving itself at all in the war between president Assad and the terrorists. Also the US constantly goes against democratic movements.

Sorry, I'm sure you must have made a mistake. Are you implying Assad isn't a terrorist? Because the evidence begs to differ.

[Crockerland]

A US ally betrayed by the Obama regime? What a surprise!

[New Benian Republic]

The US shouldn't be involving itself at all in the war between president Assad and the terrorists. Also the US constantly goes against democratic movements.

Sorry, I'm sure you must have made a mistake. Are you implying Assad isn't a terrorist? Because the evidence begs to differ.

Assad is the legitimate leader of the Syrian Arab Republic. He is doing nothing more than what it takes for not only him but his people and his nation to survive in that area of the world, He lives in a place where foreign powers are always trying to weaken the Arab people, where the Israelis want nothing more than yet another failed Arab state that no longer has the ability to stand up to them exists.

[Novus America]

Sorry, I'm sure you must have made a mistake. Are you implying Assad isn't a terrorist? Because the evidence begs to differ.

Assad is the legitimate leader of the Syrian Arab Republic. He is doing nothing more than what it takes for not only him but his people and his nation to survive in that area of the world, He lives in a place where foreign powers are always trying to weaken the Arab people, where the Israelis want nothing more than yet another failed Arab state that no longer has the ability to stand up to them exists.

Assad. Legitimate... That is a good one.

And the only thing that weakens the Arab people is their own issues and divisions.

[Pope Joan]

The US shouldn't be involving itself at all in the war between president Assad and the terrorists. Also the US constantly goes against democratic movements.

The US should be siding with Russia, whose support for Assad is all that has been pushing back ISIS so far.

But instead we feign surprise that the Israeli and Saudi weapons we placed in the hands of our lovely freedom fighter allies have "somehow" all found their way into the hands of jihadists.

[Novus America]

The US shouldn't be involving itself at all in the war between president Assad and the terrorists. Also the US constantly goes against democratic movements.

The US should be siding with Russia, whose support for Assad is all that has been pushing back ISIS so far.

But instead we feign surprise that the Israeli and Saudi weapons we placed in the hands of our lovely freedom fighter allies have "somehow" all found their way into the hands of jihadists.

No, the US backed Kurds have been making the big advancements against ISIS. Assad is still bogged down fighting non-ISIS in Aleppo. Also ISIS is just a symptom. Assad's tribalism, incompetence and mismanagement is the disease.

[Lonograd]

The US should be siding with Russia, whose support for Assad is all that has been pushing back ISIS so far.

But instead we feign surprise that the Israeli and Saudi weapons we placed in the hands of our lovely freedom fighter allies have "somehow" all found their way into the hands of jihadists.

No, the US backed Kurds have been making the big advancements against ISIS. Assad is still bogged down fighting non-ISIS in Aleppo. Also ISIS is just a symptom. Assad's tribalism, incompetence and mismanagement is the disease.

I thought it was America who created ISIS by invading Iraq and it was the western backed terrorists who started the war, not Assad's "tribalism". And also the Syrian army took Raqqa from ISIS while the Kurds have done nothing except wanting to create their "Kurdistan"

[G-Tech Corporation]

No, the US backed Kurds have been making the big advancements against ISIS. Assad is still bogged down fighting non-ISIS in Aleppo. Also ISIS is just a symptom. Assad's tribalism, incompetence and mismanagement is the disease.

I thought it was America who created ISIS by invading Iraq and it was the western backed terrorists who started the war, not Assad's "tribalism". And also the Syrian army took Raqqa from ISIS while the Kurds have done nothing except wanting to create their "Kurdistan"

Let's look at this in detail:

"America created ISIS": hardly. Though the invasion led to the formation of many jihadi groups and boosted recruitment, the Islamic State as we know it today could not have become a force to be reckoned with without the abject collapse of governance and the power vacuum which existed in eastern Syria- a power vacuum which only exists because of Assad's dictatorship refusing to reform and that intransigence leading to war.

"Western backed terrorists started the war": nope, that would be Assad. On the twenty-fifth of April, 2011, Assad authorized his military to launch attacks on protests across thirty cities in Syria with tanks and artillery, killing at least a thousand civilians who had been reasonably nonviolent up to that point. June 4th is the first instance of recorded insurrection, in Jisr al-Shugur, where mourners at a funeral were shot by security force snipers and then burned down a police station, seizing weapons from it. At no point during this time period do we have any reliable reports of Western backing, aside from calls for Assad to allow reforms.

"The Kurds have done nothing except fight in (Kurdistan)": eh, that's a fairer claim. But they've been a damn sight more effective at killing IS supporters than Assad- Assad has literally been ignoring the Islamic State in favor of killing his detractors.

[Novus America]

The US shouldn't be involving itself at all in the war between president Assad and the terrorists. Also the US constantly goes against democratic movements.

The US should be siding with Russia, whose support for Assad is all that has been pushing back ISIS so far.

But instead we feign surprise that the Israeli and Saudi weapons we placed in the hands of our lovely freedom fighter allies have "somehow" all found their way into the hands of jihadists.

No, the US backed Kurds have been making the big advancements against ISIS. Assad is still bogged down fighting non-ISIS in Aleppo. Also ISIS is just a symptom. Assad's tribalism, incompetence and mismanagement is the disease.

Well run, prosperous countries do not have insurgenices.

[Bakery Hill]

Sorry, I'm sure you must have made a mistake. Are you implying Assad isn't a terrorist? Because the evidence begs to differ.

Assad is the legitimate leader of the Syrian Arab Republic. He is doing nothing more than what it takes for not only him but his people and his nation to survive in that area of the world, He lives in a place where foreign powers are always trying to weaken the Arab people, where the Israelis want nothing more than yet another failed Arab state that no longer has the ability to stand up to them exists.

And you say your support Sinn Fein haha? Got a game for you then mate.

Who am I? An authoritarian leader, famous for privatisations and cronyism, I repress ethnic minorities and occupy their homelands.

A) Margaret Thatcher
B) Bashar al Assad
C) All of the above