Need help writing a constitution.

by **Praetorianus** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:37 pm

I'm having sort of a struggle writing a constitution for the Praetorii parliament. Can someone help me write one, or at least show me what parts I need to make a complete and professional one?

by **Pherdistan** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:43 pm

I can't write a more detailed post right now, but below is the link to a database with just about every national constitution there is.

My suggestion would be figure out what country you're basing your government off of, then use that country's constitution as a template for your own.

The Constitute Project

by **Praetorianus** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:06 pm

Ah, thanks. :hug:

I don't want it to be too US based (in terms of ideologies, government, etc.), so I'll check it out.
Much thanks.
If your nation wasn't Muslim--a group of people Praetorii hate--I would've gladly made Pherdistan an ally.

by **Chinese Peoples** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:57 pm

Praetorianus wrote:Ah, thanks.
I don't want it to be too US based (in terms of ideologies, government, etc.), so I'll check it out.
Much thanks.
If your nation wasn't Muslim--a group of people Praetorii hate--I would've gladly made Pherdistan an ally.

I can offer some help, if you want. I've helped drafting NS constitutions before.

by **Praetorianus** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:20 pm

If you're a woman....
I would like to give you a kiss of gratitude for your help
...if only I could do so through the screen.
:hug:

by **Chinese Peoples** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:24 pm

Praetorianus wrote:If you're a woman....
I would like to give you a kiss of gratitude for your help
...if only I could do so through the screen.

So, if I were not a woman, I don't deserve your gratitude?

by **Praetorianus** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:28 pm

Chinese Peoples wrote:
Praetorianus wrote:If you're a woman....
I would like to give you a kiss of gratitude for your help
...if only I could do so through the screen.

So, if I were not a woman, I don't deserve your gratitude?

Just some dab bruh. And a secret handshake.

by **Chinese Peoples** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:31 pm

Praetorianus wrote:
Chinese Peoples wrote:So, if I were not a woman, I don't deserve your gratitude?

Just some dab bruh. And a secret handshake.

That's more like it.

The word 'sexist' does not start to encompass what you could have said there.

by **Praetorianus** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:45 pm

It's just a sexual preference. I believe man and woman--even in between--has the right for appropriate, substantial, and proper treatment--physical, mental, and emotional.

by **Chinese Peoples** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:55 pm

Praetorianus wrote:It's just a sexual preference. I believe man and woman--even in between--has the right for appropriate, substantial, and proper treatment--physical, mental, and emotional.

How does your sexual preference even come into writing a constitution?

Tell me what you want your nation to look like, and whether your government intends to follow its constitution or not. I'll whip up something for you within a few days. You mentioned that you don't want it to look too much like the American constitution, so I assume you mean you want it somewhat alike but not too similar.

by **Praetorianus** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:13 pm

How does your sexual preference even come into writing a constitution?
Um....nevermind about the sexual preference.
Tell me what you want your nation to look like, and whether your government intends to follow its constitution or not.
Technically it's Coruscant, Naboo, Rome, Greece, Florence, the Vatican, Byzantium, and Venice mashed together. Set in an icy landscape (Antarctica). If you can imagine that. And like good people, the government, and the people outside the government, always follow the Constitution.
I'll whip up something for you within a few days. You mentioned that you don't want it to look too much like the American constitution, so I assume you mean you want it somewhat alike but not too similar.
Yes. Exactly. You know me so well. :blush:

by **Chinese Peoples** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:42 pm

This is a preliminary draft. Let me know if I'm in the right direction.

Since you like the USA, I assume that you want a constitutional monarchy with the Emperor at its head. But since you also mentioned various ancient states, I also assume that you want a touch of the Byzantine (pun intended!), quirky characteristics of ancient states.

by **Praetorianus** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:44 pm

Does this express my overwhelmed appreciation for this creation and your effort enough? :lol:

Yes, actually, with references from those eras. You tied them all in perfectly. But, Prae is also a theocratic, imperial, capitalist, Republican, aristocratic, Christian, fascist/national-socialist (i'm not), right wing nation, and not just constitutional monarchical, so if you can add those changes in the final draft, please? Also, not to drive you crazy--and I don't want you to feel like you're in English class again--but maybe we should do those points in paragraphs? Three paragraphs for each topic, if necessary, and I'll help you?
(TFW you're asking for too much... :oops:

)

by **Chinese Peoples** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Praetorianus wrote:Does this express my overwhelmed appreciation for this creation and your effort enough?
(Image)
Yes, actually, with references from those eras. You tied them all in perfectly. But, Prae is also a theocratic, imperial, capitalist, Republican, aristocratic, Christian, fascist/national-socialist (i'm not), right wing nation, and not just constitutional monarchical, so if you can add those changes in the final draft, please? Also, not to drive you crazy--and I don't want you to feel like you're in English class again--but maybe we should do those points in paragraphs? Three paragraphs for each topic, if necessary, and I'll help you?
(TFW you're asking for too much... )

I'm not sure if you actually want those to be written into the constitution... most countries that espouse those values don't want a written constitution at all, which of all things naturally limits the power of a leader, especially in a national socialist state. You can achieve all those objectives with this system.

I'll try to put some of those things in.

by **Praetorianus** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:19 pm

That's why I kindly wanted to volunteer to help. After all, it's not really reasonable to have someone do a certain 'assignment', per se, and not give them any assistance at all, right? So, let me help. Let me know what you think is unprofessional Constitution writing. Help me help you. Things like that. I will save this in my friend's Google Docs/Drive with your name/signature, edit it a little--only what you want me to edit.

by **The Greater Aryan Race** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:55 pm

For starters, it's important to know what sort of political structure you envision for your nation. Do you want a typical Republic cum representative democracy? A socialist state like the Soviet Union? A federal/confederal entity such as the Bundesrepublik or the United States? A monarchy? A theocracy?

What type of government structure do you want to have? An autocracy? A single-party state? A parliamentary system? A presidential system? A semi-presidential system? A monarchy? Absolute or constitutional monarchy? What is the structure of your legislature? How are laws made and passed? Who is your Head of Government? Do you have a Head of State who is separate from the government (sort of like the Queen and the UK government) or are the roles fused? Which position holds greater political power and precedence?

What are the basic rights that you wish to specify or delineate in your constitution for your citizens? Are these to be permanently enshrined in your constitution with no changes or restrictions permitted? Or does your constitution specify what instances these rights may be restricted?

These are the basic questions you will need to answer first if you want to have a clearer idea as to what sort of constitution you envisage for your nation. It also helps if you take a quick look at RL examples such as the US Constitution or those of nations such as the PRC, Germany, France, Russia or even historical examples like Ancient Rome. You can even create a seemingly liberal constitution for outward appearances but then actually have a government contravene that constitution just for the lulz.

by **Praetorianus** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:46 am

Considering I want to make my Constitution different.
So, gathering some information from your Constitution, there should be:
- Preamble
- Provisions and Organisation
- The State and the Constitution
- Protection of the sovereignty
- Basic Rights
- The Legislature
- and Amendments.
And from here, there should be:
-What type of government structure do you want to have?
-What is the structure of your legislature?
-How are laws made and passed?
-Who is your Head of Government?
-Do you have a Head of State who is separate from the government (sort of like the Queen and the UK government) or are the roles fused?
-Which position holds greater political power and precedence?
-What are the basic rights that you wish to specify or delineate in your constitution for your citizens?
-Are these to be permanently enshrined in your constitution with no changes or restrictions permitted?
-Or does your constitution specify what instances these rights may be restricted?

Thanks to you and the Chinese Peoples, I can try and mash the best of both worlds. Now it's time for the shitty part: writing ALL of it. God, I feel like I'm in high school English again.....

by **Praetorianus** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:12 am

For starters, it's important to know what sort of political structure you envision for your nation. Do you want a typical Republic cum representative democracy? A socialist state like the Soviet Union? A federal/confederate entity such as the Bundesrepublik or the United States? A monarchy? A theocracy?

Our political structure is--hold on to your seat---a Theocratic, imperial, capitalist, Republican, aristocratic, Christian, fascist/national-socialist, constitutional monarchy. Fair to say a far-right-winged royal Republic, simply put.

What type of government structure do you want to have? An autocracy? A single-party state? A parliamentary system? A presidential system? A semi-presidential system? A monarchy? Absolute or constitutional monarchy? What is the structure of your legislature? How are laws made and passed? Who is your Head of Government? Do you have a Head of State who is separate from the government (sort of like the Queen and the UK government) or are the roles fused? Which position holds greater political power and precedence?

It's kind of confusing.
-The highest non-heavenly power (below the Angel of Death, that is) in Praetorianus is the Emperor and Empress (the Imperial part); they run they show here and seek to expand territory whenever they seek fit. It's their job to keep their son--the King--and their daughter-in-law--the Queen--(together to form the monarchy) in order to keep their children and their cousins, nieces, nephews, uncles, aunts, etc (the aristocracy) in order.
-The King and Queen can go as far as declaring and fighting in wars against another country, with the aid of the Republican Council's approval.
-The aristocracy keeps the Council in order, as well as the theocracy--the Holy Revelations Vigilante Christian Church, its priests, bishops, archbishops, and pope (and popess) to stabilize the morality of the nation, and to make sure people go to Church every Saturday/Sunday (this also includes making sure the Church keeps up to date and hosts scheduled holy events on time).
-The Council can set laws, control the military, and set political propaganda/meetings when needed. They also host voting for new seats in Parliament, as well as host executions, jury, and new policies.

What are the basic rights that you wish to specify or delineate in your constitution for your citizens? Are these to be permanently enshrined in your constitution with no changes or restrictions permitted? Or does your constitution specify what instances these rights may be restricted?

Our Constitution specify what instances these rights may be restricted. It can be based on most of the laws set by Jesus in the New Testament, as well as some laws from the Old, ESPECIALLY the Ten Commandments. Other laws and rights and set by the leaders in consideration for morality, dignity, and loyalty.

by **The Greater Aryan Race** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:09 am

Praetorianus wrote:Our political structure is--hold on to your seat---a Theocratic, imperial, capitalist, Republican, aristocratic, Christian, fascist/national-socialist, constitutional monarchy. Fair to say a far-right-winged royal Republic, simply put.

Alright I'm gonna have to hold up for a second. Are you telling me your government is all of the above? Even with trying to merge and blend some of the governmental types and differing ideologies, there are too many contradictory aspects for it to function properly. It can't possibly be Fascist and Republican as well as aristocratic as well.

Praetorianus wrote:It's kind of confusing.
-The highest non-heavenly power (below the Angel of Death, that is) in Praetorianus is the Emperor and Empress (the Imperial part); they run they show here and seek to expand territory whenever they seek fit. It's their job to keep their son--the King--and their daughter-in-law--the Queen--(together to form the monarchy) in order to keep their children and their cousins, nieces, nephews, uncles, aunts, etc (the aristocracy) in order.

What is the Angel of Death? Shouldn't the King be more appropriately retitled as Crown Prince if the Emperor is the ultimate sovereign?

Praetorianus wrote:-The King and Queen can go as far as declaring and fighting in wars against another country, with the aid of the Republican Council's approval.
-The aristocracy keeps the Council in order, as well as the theocracy--the Holy Revelations Vigilante Christian Church, its priests, bishops, archbishops, and pope (and popess) to stabilize the morality of the nation, and to make sure people go to Church every Saturday/Sunday (this also includes making sure the Church keeps up to date and hosts scheduled holy events on time).
-The Council can set laws, control the military, and set political propaganda/meetings when needed. They also host voting for new seats in Parliament, as well as host executions, jury, and new policies.

What is the relationship between Parliament and the Republican Council? If the Council already possesses the power to set new laws, does that mean it already is your parliament?

Praetorianus wrote:Our Constitution specify what instances these rights may be restricted. It can be based on most of the laws set by Jesus in the New Testament, as well as some laws from the Old, ESPECIALLY the Ten Commandments. Other laws and rights and set by the leaders in consideration for morality, dignity, and loyalty.

So religious laws comprise the basic legal foundations of your country as well as the source of basic rights for your citizens? What about your judiciary? What is the structure of the courts in your country? How are court cases handled? By trial by jury or by presiding judges?

by **Chinese Peoples** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:25 am

I'm afraid I can't guarantee a functional government if you want all of those aspects written into your prospective constitution... GAR explained my conundrum perfectly well. If you want both a pair of emperor/empress and a king/queen, you'd be having a situation similar to the Roman Empire with their Augusti and Caesares, since a king/queen are by definition sovereign as well. I'm not sure if that's what you want, since Augusti/Caesares has proven not to work for the Roman Empire in the long run.

If your sovereign is to have actual political power, they will have political responsibility; according to the system that you lay out, a revolt is pretty much inevitable, perhaps within 48 hours of the enactment of the constitution. The only reason why Queen Elizabeth II is still sovereign is because her ministers take all the responsibility, so when there would be a revolution in absolute monarchies, there is only a change of government in the UK.

I can't write stuff from the Old Testament into your constitution; a tribal, nomadic people wandering in a desert is by no means similar to your nation, which, of all things, is situated in the Antarctic. The ideal constitution only needs to define the people's relationship with their government and the structure of the government; beyond that, a constitution that places a stranglehold over the government is a bad constitution. The ROC constitution is a good example of this, and at the end of the day, the supreme court in that country had to concede that the provisions dealing with policies only serve as suggestions. I can establish a church, but, in the end, I think it would be a bad thing for your government. Henry II vs. the Church and countless other cases suggest that a powerful church and a powerful government cannot exist together; I'll put your head of state down as the head of the church to avoid these conflicts.

A theocracy cannot co-exist with a fascist state ("everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"). In fact, not even non-established churches can co-exist with a national socialist state.

by **Chinese Peoples** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:27 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Praetorianus wrote:Our Constitution specify what instances these rights may be restricted. It can be based on most of the laws set by Jesus in the New Testament, as well as some laws from the Old, ESPECIALLY the Ten Commandments. Other laws and rights and set by the leaders in consideration for morality, dignity, and loyalty.

So religious laws comprise the basic legal foundations of your country as well as the source of basic rights for your citizens? What about your judiciary? What is the structure of the courts in your country? How are court cases handled? By trial by jury or by presiding judges?

The mode of trial (inquisitorial and adversarial) I intend to let him decide as normal legislation, such as the case in a Westminster-style democracy. A Westminster-style government seems the best compromise for all his requirements, since it grants considerable flexibility to the legislature.

by **The Greater Aryan Race** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:46 am

Chinese Peoples wrote:The mode of trial (inquisitorial and adversarial) I intend to let him decide as normal legislation, such as the case in a Westminster-style democracy. A Westminster-style government seems the best compromise for all his requirements, since it grants considerable flexibility to the legislature.

I suppose however, since Praetorianus wants a written constitution, that the preamble and introductory articles will need to include plenty of references to Christ and Christian law and morality. Stuff like that. Perhaps the section on the monarch may include articles that specify something like:

"There shall be a Head of State of Praetorianus, to be called the Emperor of Praetorianus, who shall take precedence over all persons in the Federation and shall not be liable to any proceedings whatsoever in any court.

The Consort of the Emperor (to be called the Empress) shall take precedence next after the Emperor over all other persons in the Empire.
The Emperor is the Lieutenant of the One True God upon Earth. His right to rule is thus absolute and ordained by divine providence."

by **Chinese Peoples** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:59 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Chinese Peoples wrote:The mode of trial (inquisitorial and adversarial) I intend to let him decide as normal legislation, such as the case in a Westminster-style democracy. A Westminster-style government seems the best compromise for all his requirements, since it grants considerable flexibility to the legislature.

I suppose however, since Praetorianus wants a written constitution, that the preamble and introductory articles will need to include plenty of references to Christ and Christian law and morality. Stuff like that. Perhaps the section on the monarch may include articles that specify something like:

"There shall be a Head of State of Praetorianus, to be called the Emperor of Praetorianus, who shall take precedence over all persons in the Federation and shall not be liable to any proceedings whatsoever in any court.

The Consort of the Emperor (to be called the Empress) shall take precedence next after the Emperor over all other persons in the Empire.
The Emperor is the Lieutenant of the One True God upon Earth. His right to rule is thus absolute and ordained by divine providence."

That's a good idea, but how do we accommodate national socialism (assuming that the Emperor = Fuehrer) and republicanism? Republicanism necessarily entails some recognition of popular power, even with a monarch as sovereign.

I suggest, The Emperor shall be entitled, "By Grace of God, Emperor of Praetorianus, Defender of the Faith, Fuehrer of Praetorians, and Lord of His Other Territories" and enjoy the style of "Imperial and Most Christian Majesty". Latin, DEI GRATIA IMPERATOR DUX PRAETORIANORUM FIDES DEFENSOR DOMINUS PRINCEPS ALIARUM ~~PROVINCIARUM~~.

The constitution could read, The Emperor of Praetorianus, ordained by God, shall be sovereign of Praetorianus and head of the Church of Holy Revelations.

The Church of Holy Revelations, One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, shall be the established church of Praetorianus and enjoy support of the government as the Imperial Parliament shall grant.

The Imperial Parliament shall enact no legislation to prevent Praetorians from attending and supporting the Church of Holy Revelations, or the said Church to practice its faith freely and publicly, within the laws and customs of the Empire.

by **The Greater Aryan Race** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:07 am

Chinese Peoples wrote:That's a good idea, but how do we accommodate national socialism (assuming that the Emperor = Fuehrer) and republicanism? Republicanism necessarily entails some recognition of popular power, even with a monarch as sovereign.

I suggest, The Emperor shall be entitled, "By Grace of God, Emperor of Praetorianus, Fuehrer of Praetorians, and Lord of His Other Territories" and enjoy the style of "Imperial and Most Christian Majesty". Latin, DEI GRATIA IMPERATOR DUX PRAETORIANORUM DOMINUS PRINCEPS ALIARUM PROVINCIARUM.

The Emperor of Praetorianus, ordained by God, shall be sovereign and head of Praetorianus.

If Praetorianus is envisaging the monarchical system of the Roman Empire, then I'd prefer that Fuehrer be scrapped. Perhaps something else like Princeps Civitatis be included in his official titles. That seems a better accommodation of republican and monarchical governments in my opinion.

by **Chinese Peoples** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:15 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Chinese Peoples wrote:That's a good idea, but how do we accommodate national socialism (assuming that the Emperor = Fuehrer) and republicanism? Republicanism necessarily entails some recognition of popular power, even with a monarch as sovereign.

I suggest, The Emperor shall be entitled, "By Grace of God, Emperor of Praetorianus, Fuehrer of Praetorians, and Lord of His Other Territories" and enjoy the style of "Imperial and Most Christian Majesty". Latin, DEI GRATIA IMPERATOR DUX PRAETORIANORUM DOMINUS PRINCEPS ALIARUM PROVINCIARUM.

The Emperor of Praetorianus, ordained by God, shall be sovereign and head of Praetorianus.

If Praetorianus is envisaging the monarchical system of the Roman Empire, then I'd prefer that Fuehrer be scrapped. Perhaps something else like Princeps Civitatis be included in his official titles. That seems a better accommodation of republican and monarchical governments in my opinion.

We could swap dux for princeps. So that would be, DEI GRATIA IMPERATOR PRAETORIS PRINCEPS CIVIUM PRAETORIANORUM, stating in parallel his dual role as emperor of the country and leader of her citizens.

The preamble needs some work. Normally, the preamble makes references to the historical causes for enacting a new constitution and current factors that necessitate it.

The Emperor of Praetorianus, ordained by God, acclaimed by the Lords and Commons of Praetorianus, hereby enacts this Constitution, with the assent of the same.

The Emperor of Praetorianus, reigning by Grace of God, sovereign of Praetoriaus, and his heirs and successors shall exercise their rule according to this Constitution.

Need help writing a constitution.

Need help writing a constitution.

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